What old performance car compares...
Discussion
havoc said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
SWoll said:
You seem determined to make a point, I'm just struggling to understand why?
Because plain statistical performance is only one facet in what makes a car enjoyable. e.g. a Tesla will slay nearly anything in 0-60, probably 0-100, and has a lot of grip. But beyond that, what is there to enjoy?!?https://youtu.be/pOVIgVvjfH0
MDT said:
And then you can take a look at what the majority of the new cars on the road today are.
Audi A4 1.4T - just under 9 seconds
Nissan Qashqai Hatchback 1.2 DiG-T - 10.5 seconds
Citroen C4 Cactus Hatchback 1.2 - 13 seconds
yes these are all very good next to the cars of old when it come to MPG and crashing, they are fantastic when it come to a crash, using a RS6 estate as the base line for modern cars is not the norm.
Also old school NA engine will win hands down on flexibility. E-type v MX5 which would win from 1000rpm in top gear. no not a real world test but nether is a lap time round the ring.
Interesting post. My commuter car is V6tdi that will do 155mph and 0-60 is 6s. So probably as quick that most cars like the 308, Jalpa, DeLorean in my 'pocket guide of sports cars' I had as a kid in the 80's. Audi A4 1.4T - just under 9 seconds
Nissan Qashqai Hatchback 1.2 DiG-T - 10.5 seconds
Citroen C4 Cactus Hatchback 1.2 - 13 seconds
yes these are all very good next to the cars of old when it come to MPG and crashing, they are fantastic when it come to a crash, using a RS6 estate as the base line for modern cars is not the norm.
Also old school NA engine will win hands down on flexibility. E-type v MX5 which would win from 1000rpm in top gear. no not a real world test but nether is a lap time round the ring.
I commute around 300miles a week on the M1 probably passing hundreds of cars a week. However not that many will be much quicker (the odd porsche, Tesla, E53's etc) but we talk about RS6's A45's like there on every street corner but most people still drive cars with 0-60 is around 8-12 seconds.
otolith said:
havoc said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
SWoll said:
You seem determined to make a point, I'm just struggling to understand why?
Because plain statistical performance is only one facet in what makes a car enjoyable. e.g. a Tesla will slay nearly anything in 0-60, probably 0-100, and has a lot of grip. But beyond that, what is there to enjoy?!?https://youtu.be/pOVIgVvjfH0
PH User said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
SWoll said:
You seem determined to make a point, I'm just struggling to understand why?
Because plain statistical performance is only one facet in what makes a car enjoyable. e.g. a Tesla will slay nearly anything in 0-60, probably 0-100, and has a lot of grip. But beyond that, what is there to enjoy?!?https://youtu.be/pOVIgVvjfH0
otolith said:
Not really, he said there was nothing to enjoy in a Tesla beyond acceleration and grip. I pointed out that driving a Model 3 Performance round a track looked fun. He said even a 2CV would be fun round Laguna Seca, as if a 2CV is also a car which has nothing to enjoy. Well, some people think a 2CV is fun on the road.
https://www.2cvracing.org.uk/There is also the Spa 2CV 24hr race too - I’d wager it’s genuinely a lot of fun and peanuts for a group to set up
Great subject.
Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
I don't think anyone would ever describe the Escort Cosworth as a warm hatch. So, is the Swift Sport sometimes described as a warm hatch because it is newer, and is in competition with hot hatches of today with 2 to 3 times more power under the bonnet?
That doesn't make sense to me either. Because back in the day (showing my age here!), an MG Metro was considered a hot hatch just as much as a Sierra RS Cosworth.
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
I don't think anyone would ever describe the Escort Cosworth as a warm hatch. So, is the Swift Sport sometimes described as a warm hatch because it is newer, and is in competition with hot hatches of today with 2 to 3 times more power under the bonnet?
That doesn't make sense to me either. Because back in the day (showing my age here!), an MG Metro was considered a hot hatch just as much as a Sierra RS Cosworth.
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
otolith said:
PH User said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
otolith said:
havoc said:
SWoll said:
You seem determined to make a point, I'm just struggling to understand why?
Because plain statistical performance is only one facet in what makes a car enjoyable. e.g. a Tesla will slay nearly anything in 0-60, probably 0-100, and has a lot of grip. But beyond that, what is there to enjoy?!?https://youtu.be/pOVIgVvjfH0
DazzaSport said:
Great subject.
Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
I don't think anyone would ever describe the Escort Cosworth as a warm hatch. So, is the Swift Sport sometimes described as a warm hatch because it is newer, and is in competition with hot hatches of today with 2 to 3 times more power under the bonnet?
That doesn't make sense to me either. Because back in the day (showing my age here!), an MG Metro was considered a hot hatch just as much as a Sierra RS Cosworth.
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
A escort perhaps, but a Sierra Cosworth was never considered a hot hatch?Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
I don't think anyone would ever describe the Escort Cosworth as a warm hatch. So, is the Swift Sport sometimes described as a warm hatch because it is newer, and is in competition with hot hatches of today with 2 to 3 times more power under the bonnet?
That doesn't make sense to me either. Because back in the day (showing my age here!), an MG Metro was considered a hot hatch just as much as a Sierra RS Cosworth.
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
biggbn said:
DazzaSport said:
Great subject.
Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
A escort perhaps, but a Sierra Cosworth was never considered a hot hatch?Being a Swift Sport owner, I do like this one.
A couple of Fifth Gear video's on YouTube in which Jason Plato tested a 2018 Swift Sport and a 1995 Escort Cosworth around Angelsey.
Escort Cosworth: 1:25:95
Swift Sport: 1:25:62
Nigh on identical times! Even the weather conditions looked identical - even though they are in different videos.
So, the Cossie has 4-wheel drive and 225 HP. The Swift Sport is front-wheel drive and has 140 HP.
Mind you the Swift Sport only weighs 975 Kg. The Cossie is 1,320 Kg.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a 'warm hatch'. It's either a hot hatch or it isn't. No manufacturer ever advertised their performance variant of a hatchback as a 'warm hatch'.
Even so, some would describe the Swift Sport as a warm hatch.
So, if it is able to match the performance of an Escort Cosworth around a race track - does that make the Escort Cosworth a warm hatch too?
In any case, to be honest - a Swift Sport is quite traditional in it's ethos. It's lightweight like traditional hot hatches. It's cheap(ish) to buy, run and insure. It's very traditional in the way it drives too.
At Anglesey an Escort Cosworth was faster than a Focus RS in a Fifth Gear video
https://youtu.be/XbYx0NkWw8E
So would be good to see the Focus RS up against the Swift to see what sort of a gap there was
Then again weren’t the E30 M3 and Integrale whopped round that track by a Colt CZT and Citroen C2 GT
https://youtu.be/H-lEdbzmKxY
PH User said:
otolith said:
Not really, he said there was nothing to enjoy in a Tesla beyond acceleration and grip. I pointed out that driving a Model 3 Performance round a track looked fun. He said even a 2CV would be fun round Laguna Seca, as if a 2CV is also a car which has nothing to enjoy. Well, some people think a 2CV is fun on the road.
I imagine that some people might enjoy them on the road. He said that one would be fun at Laguna Seca, so he is saying that there is something to enjoy in a 2CV- I rather like them
- I was only trying to pick the slowest car possible as an antidote to all this "aren't statistics great" nonsense...
...and you know what...I WOULD take the 2CV round track instead of the Tesla, simply because I think I'd have much more of an impact on lap-times in the 2CV, and would feel more involved in the process. Oh, and the comedy corner lean...
I have an original Porsche Boxster
My daily driver 5 series would leave it for dead. Even my wife’s diesel Octavia VRS estate would probably out accelerate , out break and corner it
Doesn’t really mean anything though, there’s only one car that puts a smile on my face and that I would take for a ‘drive’
My daily driver 5 series would leave it for dead. Even my wife’s diesel Octavia VRS estate would probably out accelerate , out break and corner it
Doesn’t really mean anything though, there’s only one car that puts a smile on my face and that I would take for a ‘drive’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4o0r9unT4L4
It ain’t what you do, it’s the way that you do it.
Never a truer word spoken, particularly with this sort of thing.
It ain’t what you do, it’s the way that you do it.
Never a truer word spoken, particularly with this sort of thing.
ThisInJapanese said:
I don't know about 0-60 times etc, but my FK8 Civic Type R is as quick as the original NSX around Suzuka: https://fastestlaps.com/tests/un69mbukljuz
edit: The performance stats are pretty much exactly the same. 0-60: 5.7 and top speed of 168mph
Clearly they are reading this thread at 5th Gear!!edit: The performance stats are pretty much exactly the same. 0-60: 5.7 and top speed of 168mph
Edited by ThisInJapanese on Thursday 22 April 15:23
https://youtu.be/t3Q7fjTGc-w
CTR Vs NSX around Castle Coombe
ThisInJapanese said:
Clearly they are reading this thread at 5th Gear!!
https://youtu.be/t3Q7fjTGc-w
CTR Vs NSX around Castle Coombe
The ride from that Civic looked horrendous. Why is it so harshly damped?https://youtu.be/t3Q7fjTGc-w
CTR Vs NSX around Castle Coombe
I'd love to try an old NSX.
Several decades ago when I first started using a seven on the road, it was usually good enough to leave behind many of the other cars on the roads at the time. even on a straight road.
Time, and technology has caught up with it, so now it can be left behind, by quite few (even shopping trolley type) modern cars.
It was always fun in the old days, to have the odd ding dong, with some drivers who did not know what a seven was, particularly women, for whom a seven was probably appearing as just an old fashioned banger, that they `thought' they could walk past .
Those days are now somewhat long gone. But were fun nevertheless.
Time, and technology has caught up with it, so now it can be left behind, by quite few (even shopping trolley type) modern cars.
It was always fun in the old days, to have the odd ding dong, with some drivers who did not know what a seven was, particularly women, for whom a seven was probably appearing as just an old fashioned banger, that they `thought' they could walk past .
Those days are now somewhat long gone. But were fun nevertheless.
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