Can i justify a performance/sportier car?
Discussion
Hi there
Some may have seen my previous posts dithering over what car i would like to get next, however i am now in two minds as to whether to change my car at all.
Some background, I currently have a 1.8 Civic (dressed up to look a bit like a type R (oh dear), i would describe it as okay. Its far from the most engaging car to drive, it certainly isnt the best built but does the job. In all honesty i bought it as a cheap car for personal use as I previously had a company vehicle.
Ive chopped and changed over the years ranging from STs, Mx5s and Gtis - probably more cars than id liked to be honest.
I am now at the point now where id like something fun to drive and have debated many a time on here and probably driven various owners forums mad with questions (i like to pick and research my cars carefully) But something at the back of my mind tells me that it is pointless getting a more powerful/fun car. I wouldn’t be looking at anything particularly expensive with around a 6k budget as i have some saved towards that amount, nothing apart from the gt86 in recent years interests me at all so im generally have been looking at stuff pre 2010.
I use my car partly for work but dont really drive in areas often enough to exploit performance etc but do like a car that is fun to drive. Ive tried a variety cars, CR-Zs, Swift Sports, FN2 Type Rs (unfortunately ive been priced out of Integras and more exotic JDM stuff) but by far the best i tried recently was a 130i (of course i made thread about that too!). It seems to cover everything, RWD, good power, good steering, not terrible on fuel, great to drive and the nicest car to drive since my old mx5 - in a way its kind of ruined everything else for me! But im not at the point where buying such cars are wasted on me, or wait until i get bored with them - of course with the age of the cars im looking at parts will need replacing, although that applies to my current car too.
But im also conscious of the steadily rising prices of older, interesting cars. Many people dont get this and scoff at why id spend so much on an older car. Im more or less surrounded by those whod rather have the newest/lowest mileage/fancy badge car they can get rather than performance/how it drives/looks/reliability etc
Does anyone else also have this sense of guilt or indecisiveness over wanting something sportier, or feel like their money could be put to better use/savings etc. I feel its a bit of a petrolheads burden but worry im getting carried away and should suck it up with what ive got to stop me from yet again changing cars.
Some may have seen my previous posts dithering over what car i would like to get next, however i am now in two minds as to whether to change my car at all.
Some background, I currently have a 1.8 Civic (dressed up to look a bit like a type R (oh dear), i would describe it as okay. Its far from the most engaging car to drive, it certainly isnt the best built but does the job. In all honesty i bought it as a cheap car for personal use as I previously had a company vehicle.
Ive chopped and changed over the years ranging from STs, Mx5s and Gtis - probably more cars than id liked to be honest.
I am now at the point now where id like something fun to drive and have debated many a time on here and probably driven various owners forums mad with questions (i like to pick and research my cars carefully) But something at the back of my mind tells me that it is pointless getting a more powerful/fun car. I wouldn’t be looking at anything particularly expensive with around a 6k budget as i have some saved towards that amount, nothing apart from the gt86 in recent years interests me at all so im generally have been looking at stuff pre 2010.
I use my car partly for work but dont really drive in areas often enough to exploit performance etc but do like a car that is fun to drive. Ive tried a variety cars, CR-Zs, Swift Sports, FN2 Type Rs (unfortunately ive been priced out of Integras and more exotic JDM stuff) but by far the best i tried recently was a 130i (of course i made thread about that too!). It seems to cover everything, RWD, good power, good steering, not terrible on fuel, great to drive and the nicest car to drive since my old mx5 - in a way its kind of ruined everything else for me! But im not at the point where buying such cars are wasted on me, or wait until i get bored with them - of course with the age of the cars im looking at parts will need replacing, although that applies to my current car too.
But im also conscious of the steadily rising prices of older, interesting cars. Many people dont get this and scoff at why id spend so much on an older car. Im more or less surrounded by those whod rather have the newest/lowest mileage/fancy badge car they can get rather than performance/how it drives/looks/reliability etc
Does anyone else also have this sense of guilt or indecisiveness over wanting something sportier, or feel like their money could be put to better use/savings etc. I feel its a bit of a petrolheads burden but worry im getting carried away and should suck it up with what ive got to stop me from yet again changing cars.
Edited by Ads22 on Friday 7th May 19:15
Unfortunately im a serial car swapper (well every 2 years or so) I dont want to change for the sake of it, and most people I know keep hold of their cars. I wish I wasn’t so fussy! I see less and less older/interesting stuff on the roads too so wonder if its a game for the brave or wealthy - but certainly get your point.
As for something like an 130i, or something of the same caliper, have i been caught up in buzz around these along with the power. Admittedly though i was just as impressed by its comfort and handling and steering as much as the power so more likely the overall package.
As for something like an 130i, or something of the same caliper, have i been caught up in buzz around these along with the power. Admittedly though i was just as impressed by its comfort and handling and steering as much as the power so more likely the overall package.
I don’t really know what more you’re looking for from these threads. Honestly, my 130i just had a service (oil, micro filter, brake fluid, full check etc) for £250 at a well respected specialist. It needs similar once every 2 years, so costs little over £100 a year for basic maintenance. It hasn’t depreciated in years, maybe even increasing in value a little.
So, based on my experience I really can’t see much risk In you trying something like a 130i. Alternatively, I believe EP3s are fetching good money, so that’s another option if you want depreciation free motoring (and a better drive than FN2s).
So, based on my experience I really can’t see much risk In you trying something like a 130i. Alternatively, I believe EP3s are fetching good money, so that’s another option if you want depreciation free motoring (and a better drive than FN2s).
Life is not a dress rehearsal...stop over-thinking it, be decisive and buy what you want, which having read your other threads sounds like a 130i.
Everyone works with a different budget and criteria, many are caught up in the new car PCP merry-go-round but the savvy buy used cars!
Happy shopping!
Cheers,
Chris
Everyone works with a different budget and criteria, many are caught up in the new car PCP merry-go-round but the savvy buy used cars!
Happy shopping!
Cheers,
Chris
“Yes” is the answer.
Suitable justifications include:
- Life is short, Carpe Diem
- Old cars are an investment
- I work hard, I deserve it
- Other people have them
- I’ll put less miles on the main car
- What else would I use the money for?
- It’ll make me more confident and successful
- Having a car you don’t like is also a waste of money
- If a big bill came up on the current car, it would be money down the drain
- It’s not just transport, it’s my hobby
- The PCP payments are like a savings scheme
- etc.
You can always justify a new car, the only question is how.
Suitable justifications include:
- Life is short, Carpe Diem
- Old cars are an investment
- I work hard, I deserve it
- Other people have them
- I’ll put less miles on the main car
- What else would I use the money for?
- It’ll make me more confident and successful
- Having a car you don’t like is also a waste of money
- If a big bill came up on the current car, it would be money down the drain
- It’s not just transport, it’s my hobby
- The PCP payments are like a savings scheme
- etc.
You can always justify a new car, the only question is how.
The_Nugget said:
The answer to your question is GT86.
I’m now of the opinion that powerful cars are utterly pointless 95% of the time on UK roads. All you need is powerful ‘enough.’ Sweet handling is much more fun for barrelling round nice roads at a decent lick.
I also agree with this. I prefer a good chassis and good steering/suspension over massive power. I was actually going trying see a CRZ on the same day i tried the 130 but after trying that i realised it drives more than 3 times better than one of those so would ultimately be disappointed (also quite a big difference in power) I’m now of the opinion that powerful cars are utterly pointless 95% of the time on UK roads. All you need is powerful ‘enough.’ Sweet handling is much more fun for barrelling round nice roads at a decent lick.
I do love the look of the gt86 but they are still out of budget for me.
i'm at a different stage of life and have a few interesting cars. on the one hand "why not", on the other hand roads are getting less fun not more. performance is largely irrelevant these days, handling more important than ever for fun. i had other powerful cars on my list to own but i've decided they're pointless. my answer is to slim the fleet and get a trailer & Caterham.
It's worth having a think about motorsport or track days. It'll save you lots of £ on road cars, but may end up costing more overall
It's worth having a think about motorsport or track days. It'll save you lots of £ on road cars, but may end up costing more overall
Heathwood said:
I don’t really know what more you’re looking for from these threads. Honestly, my 130i just had a service (oil, micro filter, brake fluid, full check etc) for £250 at a well respected specialist. It needs similar once every 2 years, so costs little over £100 a year for basic maintenance. It hasn’t depreciated in years, maybe even increasing in value a little.
So, based on my experience I really can’t see much risk In you trying something like a 130i. Alternatively, I believe EP3s are fetching good money, so that’s another option if you want depreciation free motoring (and a better drive than FN2s).
I think in reality im waiting for someone to say lower your expectations. Im not an impulse purchaser but if i go on a test drive i do worry i get a bit carried away. However i did try the 130i as often id get recommendations for it when looking at other cars...i thought itd be over-exaggerated but it really is very very good. So, based on my experience I really can’t see much risk In you trying something like a 130i. Alternatively, I believe EP3s are fetching good money, so that’s another option if you want depreciation free motoring (and a better drive than FN2s).
I suppose though at the end of the day though it is just a 1 series and not a M car!....Then i would have to start slapping sense into myself!
Ads22 said:
I suppose though at the end of the day though it is just a 1 series and not a M car!....Then i would have to start slapping sense into myself!
Exactly, it’s just a 1 series with the most reliable engine of the range. People sleep walk into a 118d without a care in the world and they’re a nightmare compared with the straight 6 petrols. Like others have said, if you want one, just get one. Have a slush fund of £500 in case the water pump needs doing and you’re all set. Ads22 said:
Some may have seen my previous posts dithering over what car i would like to get next, however i am now in two minds as to whether to change my car at all.
I am now at the point now where id like something fun to drive and have debated many a time on here and probably driven various owners forums mad with questions (i like to pick and research my cars carefully) But something at the back of my mind tells me that it is pointless getting a more powerful/fun car. I wouldn’t be looking at anything particularly expensive with around a 6k budget as i have some saved towards that amount, nothing apart from the gt86 in recent years interests me at all so im generally have been looking at stuff pre 2010.
I use my car partly for work but dont really drive in areas often enough to exploit performance etc but do like a car that is fun to drive. Ive tried a variety cars, CR-Zs, Swift Sports, FN2 Type Rs (unfortunately ive been priced out of Integras and more exotic JDM stuff) but by far the best i tried recently was a 130i (of course i made thread about that too!). It seems to cover everything, RWD, good power, good steering, not terrible on fuel, great to drive and the nicest car to drive since my old mx5 - in a way its kind of ruined everything else for me!
But im also conscious of the steadily rising prices of older, interesting cars. Many people dont get this and scoff at why id spend so much on an older car. Im more or less surrounded by those whod rather have the newest/lowest mileage/fancy badge car they can get rather than performance/how it drives/looks/reliability etc
I really don’t get the issue here. You like the idea of a 130i - and I completely understand that, as I’m on my third one - it’s within budget and prices do seem to have firmed up over the last year, so may not be a bad time to get one. Where’s the problem?I am now at the point now where id like something fun to drive and have debated many a time on here and probably driven various owners forums mad with questions (i like to pick and research my cars carefully) But something at the back of my mind tells me that it is pointless getting a more powerful/fun car. I wouldn’t be looking at anything particularly expensive with around a 6k budget as i have some saved towards that amount, nothing apart from the gt86 in recent years interests me at all so im generally have been looking at stuff pre 2010.
I use my car partly for work but dont really drive in areas often enough to exploit performance etc but do like a car that is fun to drive. Ive tried a variety cars, CR-Zs, Swift Sports, FN2 Type Rs (unfortunately ive been priced out of Integras and more exotic JDM stuff) but by far the best i tried recently was a 130i (of course i made thread about that too!). It seems to cover everything, RWD, good power, good steering, not terrible on fuel, great to drive and the nicest car to drive since my old mx5 - in a way its kind of ruined everything else for me!
But im also conscious of the steadily rising prices of older, interesting cars. Many people dont get this and scoff at why id spend so much on an older car. Im more or less surrounded by those whod rather have the newest/lowest mileage/fancy badge car they can get rather than performance/how it drives/looks/reliability etc
Edited by Ads22 on Friday 7th May 19:15
Don’t worry what other people think. If they want to pay through the nose financing a newer car that doesn’t appeal to you, let them. Meanwhile, if an older old car is what works for you, go for it. You can always sell it for a similar amount to what you bought it for if you don’t get on with it. Where’s the risk?
I used to work for a large motoring review site and drove probably five or more completely different new cars every week. And every time I got back in the 130i, I loved it. The hydraulic steering (for pre-facelift models), a very sharp throttle response from the most powerful six-cylinder, naturally aspirated, non-M engine ever made, short gearing, lovely sound and light weight make it stand out from newer models...they really don’t make this kind of thing any more.
If you were looking at getting an automatic, four-pot diesel saloon, you could do that any time. However, cars like the 130i are not going to get any easier to buy over time as the numbers drop. As for the GT86, it handles beautifully and the driving position is spot on, but it sounds like an overheating hoover to me. Boomy and unpleasant with little torque. Swap a 130i engine in there, though, and it be perfect!
RoVoFob said:
I really don’t get the issue here. You like the idea of a 130i - and I completely understand that, as I’m on my third one - it’s within budget and prices do seem to have firmed up over the last year, so may not be a bad time to get one. Where’s the problem?
Don’t worry what other people think. If they want to pay through the nose financing a newer car that doesn’t appeal to you, let them. Meanwhile, if an older old car is what works for you, go for it. You can always sell it for a similar amount to what you bought it for if you don’t get on with it. Where’s the risk?
I used to work for a large motoring review site and drove probably five or more completely different new cars every week. And every time I got back in the 130i, I loved it. The hydraulic steering (for pre-facelift models), a very sharp throttle response from the most powerful six-cylinder, naturally aspirated, non-M engine ever made, short gearing, lovely sound and light weight make it stand out from newer models...they really don’t make this kind of thing any more.
If you were looking at getting an automatic, four-pot diesel saloon, you could do that any time. However, cars like the 130i are not going to get any easier to buy over time as the numbers drop. As for the GT86, it handles beautifully and the driving position is spot on, but it sounds like an overheating hoover to me. Boomy and unpleasant with little torque. Swap a 130i
engine in there, though, and it be perfect!
I probably am making a bigger fuss over this than needed. I think you are right though i know cars like this are going to be harder and harder to get hold of and with climbing prices i do think to myself now is a good time. Don’t worry what other people think. If they want to pay through the nose financing a newer car that doesn’t appeal to you, let them. Meanwhile, if an older old car is what works for you, go for it. You can always sell it for a similar amount to what you bought it for if you don’t get on with it. Where’s the risk?
I used to work for a large motoring review site and drove probably five or more completely different new cars every week. And every time I got back in the 130i, I loved it. The hydraulic steering (for pre-facelift models), a very sharp throttle response from the most powerful six-cylinder, naturally aspirated, non-M engine ever made, short gearing, lovely sound and light weight make it stand out from newer models...they really don’t make this kind of thing any more.
If you were looking at getting an automatic, four-pot diesel saloon, you could do that any time. However, cars like the 130i are not going to get any easier to buy over time as the numbers drop. As for the GT86, it handles beautifully and the driving position is spot on, but it sounds like an overheating hoover to me. Boomy and unpleasant with little torque. Swap a 130i
engine in there, though, and it be perfect!
I sometimes don’t trust myself and think im just swayed by the most powerful flashy car i can get hold of but i do value how it drives/makes you feel and think this fits the bill perfectly.
They are quite special to drive and i feel as though i have driven a lot to compare it to.
Im usually more drawn to the jdm stuff but the prices are astronomical on some of these now and very hard to find a good example.
The other thing that holds me back is that I usually stick to jap (honda, mazda) for reliability but i know the 130s are seen for reliability but of course being german is more complicated. But as it drives so well i think it’s definitely an exception for me!
Ads22 said:
I probably am making a bigger fuss over this than needed. I think you are right though i know cars like this are going to be harder and harder to get hold of and with climbing prices i do think to myself now is a good time.
I sometimes don’t trust myself and think im just swayed by the most powerful flashy car i can get hold of but i do value how it drives/makes you feel and think this fits the bill perfectly.
They are quite special to drive and i feel as though i have driven a lot to compare it to.
Im usually more drawn to the jdm stuff but the prices are astronomical on some of these now and very hard to find a good example.
The other thing that holds me back is that I usually stick to jap (honda, mazda) for reliability but i know the 130s are seen for reliability but of course being german is more complicated. But as it drives so well i think it’s definitely an exception for me!
I understand deliberating over things. I do exactly the same and seem to spend 80% of my free time on Autotrader window shopping!I sometimes don’t trust myself and think im just swayed by the most powerful flashy car i can get hold of but i do value how it drives/makes you feel and think this fits the bill perfectly.
They are quite special to drive and i feel as though i have driven a lot to compare it to.
Im usually more drawn to the jdm stuff but the prices are astronomical on some of these now and very hard to find a good example.
The other thing that holds me back is that I usually stick to jap (honda, mazda) for reliability but i know the 130s are seen for reliability but of course being german is more complicated. But as it drives so well i think it’s definitely an exception for me!
If you were financing an expensive relatively new car where you were tied into a contract with hefty monthly payments and the car was losing value rapidly - as is the case with nearly all new/sub-5-year-old cars - there’d be a big risk there. Swap cars regularly and you’d be bound to lose a substantial amount of money - even if you spent nothing on maintenance.
However, with a 130i you should be able to get your initial spend back if you sell. I paid exactly the same price for my current 06-plate, 70k 130i in May 2020 as I did for the 55-plate, 73k 130i I bought in October 2015 (both bought privately). I’m confident that my current car is worth notably more than I paid for it, too. Yes, a car like this won’t be free to run and it’s worth keeping a little money aside to maintain it properly, but that’s no different to a JDM car that probably has more frequent servicing intervals and probably expensive JDM-specific parts in some cases, too.
So, if the 130i works for you, go for it. Japanese cars are not inherently problem-free. I saw some Accord Tourers recently that had a shocking amount of rust for 2005-ish cars. Nothing exotic, but these outwardly sensible Japanese cars could cost you a lot simply getting them to pass the MOT. No used car is problem free, so if you find one you can afford that does what you want and has relatively minor issues compared with similar cars, there’s no need to overstress.
I went from a Type S GT 1.8 to a Scirocco GT 2.0 TSI. I think you’d enjoy one of those if you could find a good one. I thought the Civic was quite nice to drive if a bit gutless but to me it felt like Honda skimped on build quality to make a concept car for the road. They still look fantastic and the interior shape is superb, but mine had far too many issues with stupid things like wiper motors, folding mirror motors etc. The Scirocco was a big step forward in build quality and driving dynamics. The engine was really excellent and it probably wouldn’t cost you too much to trade.
LightningBlue said:
I went from a Type S GT 1.8 to a Scirocco GT 2.0 TSI. I think you’d enjoy one of those if you could find a good one. I thought the Civic was quite nice to drive if a bit gutless but to me it felt like Honda skimped on build quality to make a concept car for the road. They still look fantastic and the interior shape is superb, but mine had far too many issues with stupid things like wiper motors, folding mirror motors etc. The Scirocco was a big step forward in build quality and driving dynamics. The engine was really excellent and it probably wouldn’t cost you too much to trade.
I do like these shape Civics and i like the design aswell as the dash. But annoyingly with these they are really not well screwed together, with random bits falling off and various rattles! Not to mention the absolutely appalling ride - even though my suspension is knackered. However a family member with one also has the same. Odd as I remember Hondas of old feeling very well built.Shame as i was quite set on fn2 after these, definitely a better drive but it will need ragging everywhere to enjoy it.
A CRZ was looking a nice newer alternative, but with less performance than 1.8 it would need a substantial amount to even just get it to warm hatch levels of performance, also a shame as these look great!
Unfortunately all the cars i like seem to be rare! Partly why i gave up looking for a last gen Prelude as it’s getting so difficult to find a good one!
A Scirocco has often popped up as an alternative but in my price range its bottom of the barrel stuff....these have really held their price!!
Edited by Ads22 on Sunday 9th May 13:09
You do seem extraordinarily indecisive for someone who's chopped and changed cars quite a lot.
I take a while to decide on things myself as I scrutinise everything to the nth degree, but once I've decided, I don't find pulling the trigger that hard.
You seem to have decided on the 130i. So what's the problem? It's an inexpensive car whose upper limit on running costs can't be that high surely. If you buy it and don't like it, get rid of it and think again.
Is it justifiable? I don't even know how to answer that. If you're on the bread line and in debt, then no. If you can afford it and fancy it then yes. Once all the basics have been met, life isn't about what you need.
I take a while to decide on things myself as I scrutinise everything to the nth degree, but once I've decided, I don't find pulling the trigger that hard.
You seem to have decided on the 130i. So what's the problem? It's an inexpensive car whose upper limit on running costs can't be that high surely. If you buy it and don't like it, get rid of it and think again.
Is it justifiable? I don't even know how to answer that. If you're on the bread line and in debt, then no. If you can afford it and fancy it then yes. Once all the basics have been met, life isn't about what you need.
I was quite similar to you before I bought my GT86.
I’d wanted one for years, but was just waiting for them to fall into budget. Once they did I still had a last-minute wobble and started considering cheaper options like the Swift Sport, older Type Rs, etc.
Finally, after a few months, I just thought to hell with it and took the plunge, and I’m so glad I did. Ok, if I’d have gone for the cheaper option I’d have saved £2-3k, but seeing someone else driving a GT86/BRZ in traffic whilst I was towering above them in my Swift would have wound me up rotten!
I’d wanted one for years, but was just waiting for them to fall into budget. Once they did I still had a last-minute wobble and started considering cheaper options like the Swift Sport, older Type Rs, etc.
Finally, after a few months, I just thought to hell with it and took the plunge, and I’m so glad I did. Ok, if I’d have gone for the cheaper option I’d have saved £2-3k, but seeing someone else driving a GT86/BRZ in traffic whilst I was towering above them in my Swift would have wound me up rotten!
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