Do you prefer usable bhp or more bhp than you need?

Do you prefer usable bhp or more bhp than you need?

Author
Discussion

Northernboy

12,642 posts

256 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
Being totally honest when I think back to my most fun drives they've generally always been in lower powered cars. There's something hugely grin inducing about screwing a car to the red line to make good progress. When I've had higher powered cars, and for clarity, I still mean no greater than 300 bhp, then most of those have been a totally different experience where I often hold back more. I can certainly understand wanting power and the effortless drive it enables, but you simply cannot drive one in the same way as a lower powered car and not expect to end up in some serious trouble, either with the law or by having a big accident.

To be honest if the GT86 just had a nicer engine, not necessarily more power then I'd have one sitting on the drive right now. I often liken to a RWD DC2 but unfortunately the Honda has a way nicer engine, and not sure it would easy or cheap to rectify which is why, for now, I don't have one.
My 650s is a more enjoyable drive than was my Abarth 595. I loved them both, but the McLaren is the nicer drive and is more fun.

MC Bodge

21,552 posts

174 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Not really. I tried to put some context as to why someone may require more power than you deem necessary for UK roads, which I know is an important concern of yours.
I was asking a genuine question and was specific about driving on roads in the UK -not tracks, Autobahnen, The Alps or the Nurburgring.

Would a driving enthusiast cease to be a driving enthusiast who enjoyed driving if higher powered cars weren't available? I wouldn't have thought so.

It's not important to me if people have cars with 650bhp, or whatever, and people can buy what they want to.


Of course, these days, if somebody wants FAST acceleration they can buy a Tesla.

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 14th June 14:33

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
I'd say that the road/track thing is if anything the wrong way round - if you're going to get your kicks from extracting every last bit of grip and performance and doing your overtaking with momentum, driving a slow car on a track is the safer option. Young me drove that way on the public road, old me pays a lot less insurance than he did.

Honeywell

1,368 posts

97 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
To be honest if the GT86 just had a nicer engine, not necessarily more power then I'd have one sitting on the drive right now. I often liken to a RWD DC2 but unfortunately the Honda has a way nicer engine, and not sure it would easy or cheap to rectify which is why, for now, I don't have one.
I love my GT86 engine. Its been to Fennsport. Its remapped for 99 octane fuel, its got a 100 cell single cat sports exhaust, its got a bigger air filter and its got the Subaru manifold fitted. It burbles like a Subaru, revs to 7500 rpm all day long, doesn't have the emissions torque dip and sounds incredible. If they could come like this from the factory they'd have sold millions of the things. Amazing throttle response, power stacked at the top end and with the auto throttle blip on it flatters you and urges you on.

I think I'm stuck with it for life because cars like this won't be made very much longer. Maybe the new one with the 2.4 engine will be a replacement.

I could have an insanely powerful car if I wanted. I'm mid forties with a clean license living in a low crime middle of nowhere. Without being completely powerfully built company director I could have buy a GT3 this afternoon for cash. And one for the wife. But its the wrong car for the B road blast from which I derive the vast bulk of my motoring pleasure. Its not the right tool for the job. As a young man in the early 90's I promised myself a 911 because they seemed so amazing. At the time I drove a Peugeot 309GTi (I was 21 and I spent every spare penny on running it) but now I'd be more interested in acquiring the 309 than the 911.

I don't break 95mph even on the motorway. I have no need of 305 wide tyres. I live a long way from the Nurburgring. I don't want to hit 75mph in second gear. I dislike £135/hr labour rates and resale disaster if you dare change something from OEM fit. The GT86 is basically a RWD version of my old 309GTi and thats why I love it.

Supercharging would lessen its appeal not increase it.

Northernboy

12,642 posts

256 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Honeywell said:
I could have an insanely powerful car if I wanted. I'm mid forties with a clean license living in a low crime middle of nowhere. Without being completely powerfully built company director I could have buy a GT3 this afternoon for cash. And one for the wife.
Having spmething like £250,000 sitting in an instant access savings account is a highly unusual part of any normal investment strategy. It sounds as though you may benefit from speaking to a professional regarding what you are trying to achieve from your savings and investments. That money is being eroded through inflation.

cerb4.5lee

Original Poster:

30,189 posts

179 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Honeywell said:
I love my GT86 engine. Its been to Fennsport. Its remapped for 99 octane fuel, its got a 100 cell single cat sports exhaust, its got a bigger air filter and its got the Subaru manifold fitted. It burbles like a Subaru, revs to 7500 rpm all day long, doesn't have the emissions torque dip and sounds incredible. If they could come like this from the factory they'd have sold millions of the things. Amazing throttle response, power stacked at the top end and with the auto throttle blip on it flatters you and urges you on.


Supercharging would lessen its appeal not increase it.
I bet yours is a very nice thing to drive with the improvements that you've made to it for sure. cool

When I took my S14a 200SX from 200bhp to 250bhp it completely transformed the car for me. As standard it was as flat as a pancake and it hardly made any noise. But once I'd took the boost from 10 to 16psi...and added colder plugs/a full decatted stainless exhaust/cone filter etc, it felt like a completely different car I thought. I loved it so much.

I've always fancied a GT86(they remind me of the 200SX in many ways) and a lightly modded one really appeals to me.

Om

1,714 posts

77 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
Honeywell said:
I could have an insanely powerful car if I wanted. I'm mid forties with a clean license living in a low crime middle of nowhere. Without being completely powerfully built company director I could have buy a GT3 this afternoon for cash. And one for the wife.
Having spmething like £250,000 sitting in an instant access savings account is a highly unusual part of any normal investment strategy. It sounds as though you may benefit from speaking to a professional regarding what you are trying to achieve from your savings and investments. That money is being eroded through inflation.
Perhaps he has so much money he doesn't care? Or maybe he is just making the point that he chose the GT86 because it is the kind of car he wants rather than all he can afford?

Northernboy

12,642 posts

256 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Om said:
Perhaps he has so much money he doesn't care? Or maybe he is just making the point that he chose the GT86 because it is the kind of car he wants rather than all he can afford?
Maybe, but it's worth suggesting he checks as no matter how much money he has that's a huge amount to havesitting there doing nothing.

MC Bodge

21,552 posts

174 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Honeywell said:
I love my GT86 engine. Its been to Fennsport. Its remapped for 99 octane fuel, its got a 100 cell single cat sports exhaust, its got a bigger air filter and its got the Subaru manifold fitted. It burbles like a Subaru, revs to 7500 rpm all day long, doesn't have the emissions torque dip and sounds incredible. If they could come like this from the factory they'd have sold millions of the things. Amazing throttle response, power stacked at the top end and with the auto throttle blip on it flatters you and urges you on.
That sounds really interesting thumbup

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
MC Bodge said:
It's not important to me if people have cars with 650bhp, or whatever, and people can buy what they want to.
That's good to hear, great news.

Thankfully people are not limited to 200hp so we'll cross that bridge if that happens.

TameRacingDriver

18,048 posts

271 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all

Northernboy said:
My 650s is a more enjoyable drive than was my Abarth 595. I loved them both, but the McLaren is the nicer drive and is more fun.
Well, yeah, I would expect a McLaren supercar to be more fun than a warm hatch, I haven't had anything even remotely expensive so I wouldn't comment on it. You'd have to be some kind of psychopath to drive that flat out on the road though which is the point some people are attempting to make.

Honeywell said:
I love my GT86 engine. Its been to Fennsport. Its remapped for 99 octane fuel, its got a 100 cell single cat sports exhaust, its got a bigger air filter and its got the Subaru manifold fitted. It burbles like a Subaru, revs to 7500 rpm all day long, doesn't have the emissions torque dip and sounds incredible. If they could come like this from the factory they'd have sold millions of the things. Amazing throttle response, power stacked at the top end and with the auto throttle blip on it flatters you and urges you on.

I think I'm stuck with it for life because cars like this won't be made very much longer. Maybe the new one with the 2.4 engine will be a replacement.

I could have an insanely powerful car if I wanted. I'm mid forties with a clean license living in a low crime middle of nowhere. Without being completely powerfully built company director I could have buy a GT3 this afternoon for cash. And one for the wife. But its the wrong car for the B road blast from which I derive the vast bulk of my motoring pleasure. Its not the right tool for the job. As a young man in the early 90's I promised myself a 911 because they seemed so amazing. At the time I drove a Peugeot 309GTi (I was 21 and I spent every spare penny on running it) but now I'd be more interested in acquiring the 309 than the 911.

I don't break 95mph even on the motorway. I have no need of 305 wide tyres. I live a long way from the Nurburgring. I don't want to hit 75mph in second gear. I dislike £135/hr labour rates and resale disaster if you dare change something from OEM fit. The GT86 is basically a RWD version of my old 309GTi and thats why I love it.

Supercharging would lessen its appeal not increase it.
Interesting, thanks. How much would those modifications cost you if you don't mind me asking? I've often thought if I could make the Gt86 engine nice to use I'd love to have one.

MC Bodge

21,552 posts

174 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
MC Bodge said:
It's not important to me if people have cars with 650bhp, or whatever, and people can buy what they want to.
That's good to hear, great news.

Thankfully people are not limited to 200hp so we'll cross that bridge if that happens.
I'm touched that you value my opinion so much.


nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
MC Bodge said:
nickfrog said:
MC Bodge said:
It's not important to me if people have cars with 650bhp, or whatever, and people can buy what they want to.
That's good to hear, great news.

Thankfully people are not limited to 200hp so we'll cross that bridge if that happens.
I'm touched that you value my opinion so much.
I value anyone's rational and experience based opinion when it comes to road cars.

Honeywell

1,368 posts

97 months

Tuesday 15th June 2021
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
Interesting, thanks. How much would those modifications cost you if you don't mind me asking? I've often thought if I could make the Gt86 engine nice to use I'd love to have one.
You're looking at £3,300. Totally transforms the car though. Mine is likely worth about £11k WITH the mods - no more than standard prices. Looks a lot in comparison to the value but really it's the price of the 18 way seat option on a Porsche.

Thanks for the concern about my cash situation but it's actually not in cash it's in MNG and RDSB making me about 7% in dividends. By cash I meant money that's neither borrowed, mortgaged or in a pension.

I've just been out in the GT86 and it's so much the right car. It has Focal speakers and Michelin PS4 tyres - windows down, stereo up, tyres warm, sun shining... I need nothing more.

TameRacingDriver

18,048 posts

271 months

Tuesday 15th June 2021
quotequote all
Honeywell. Thanks for getting back. I was looking last night and it looks like 10k would see me into a decent standard example. I tend not to see many modified ones though other than maybe exhaust and wheels, and those ones I have seen with decent mods have their prices set up very high.

I guess I should be looking at the owners club to find the bargains and it would seem I would be best off purchasing one with the mods already fitted.

I am warming to the idea as they seem like a nice all round fun car with an emphasis on making the driver smile rather than winning top trumps.

Honeywell

1,368 posts

97 months

Tuesday 15th June 2021
quotequote all
Yeah the owner forums are where you'll find the ones that have been Tweaked. That's where I found mine. Its highly thrashable.



Edited by Honeywell on Tuesday 15th June 14:22

Scobblelotcher

1,724 posts

111 months

Tuesday 15th June 2021
quotequote all
Honeywell said:
Yeah the owner forums are where you'll find the ones that have been Tweaked. That's where I found mine. Its highly thrashable.



Edited by Honeywell on Tuesday 15th June 14:22
That looks fantastic! I bet it's a lot of fun to thrash.

I've sort of reached a point where I don't think high horse power cars/bikes really make much sense.

My bike is a BMW S1000RR which is about 1000bhp per tonne and it can't be used really without going mad. I love riding it and find it really enjoyable but you just can't make use of the available performance. I do love the engine though for it's character/drama, it's so angry, fierce and willing to take off at anytime. Sometimes though it does feel like the bike is frustrated because you can't really (legally) explore the top of it's rev range though (+90mph in first gear - 0-60mph 2.6s etc).

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Tuesday 15th June 2021
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
Being totally honest when I think back to my most fun drives they've generally always been in lower powered cars. There's something hugely grin inducing about screwing a car to the red line to make good progress. When I've had higher powered cars, and for clarity, I still mean no greater than 300 bhp, then most of those have been a totally different experience where I often hold back more. I can certainly understand wanting power and the effortless drive it enables, but you simply cannot drive one in the same way as a lower powered car and not expect to end up in some serious trouble, either with the law or by having a big accident.

To be honest if the GT86 just had a nicer engine, not necessarily more power then I'd have one sitting on the drive right now. I often liken to a RWD DC2 but unfortunately the Honda has a way nicer engine, and not sure it would easy or cheap to rectify which is why, for now, I don't have one.
I had an EVO V with about 300hp and all the power was totally useable as the car was more than capable of putting the power down. It could be thrashed, slid and generally driven like a 1.2 Corsa. Huge fun and epic in the Alps.

I had an MR2 roadster with 138hp and that could be thrashed, slid and driven like a gocart.

Two very different cars with very different power levels.

Honeywell

1,368 posts

97 months

Wednesday 16th June 2021
quotequote all
Yes its the thrashability that provides the fun. I just find that on the typical British B road I can't thrash the 535d but I can thrash the GT86, indeed it needs thrashing to make good progress but its still slower than the diesel barge and way down on power and torque.

Rather than spend big on something with bragging rights I prefer to have more vehicles for the same spend. A L322 Rangerover for wafting and winter and towing. A BMW 535d for the commuting and long journeys. A GT86 for fun days. A Honda CRF300L for mucking about on. A lorry, an old classic car, a ride on mower, a classic tractor.

All for the price of a GT3 that is unusable and unsuitable on my roads. Quite fancy a Xenos for the local hill climb and some track days...

Tommo87

4,165 posts

112 months

Wednesday 16th June 2021
quotequote all
Om said:
Northernboy said:
Honeywell said:
I could have an insanely powerful car if I wanted. I'm mid forties with a clean license living in a low crime middle of nowhere. Without being completely powerfully built company director I could have buy a GT3 this afternoon for cash. And one for the wife.
Having spmething like £250,000 sitting in an instant access savings account is a highly unusual part of any normal investment strategy. It sounds as though you may benefit from speaking to a professional regarding what you are trying to achieve from your savings and investments. That money is being eroded through inflation.
Perhaps he has so much money he doesn't care? Or maybe he is just making the point that he chose the GT86 because it is the kind of car he wants rather than all he can afford?
Anyone with an understanding of investments will tell you that there are many places that you can invest £250K and still maintain liquidity without resorting to a bank account.