RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

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Discussion

ITP

1,457 posts

165 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
why?

How cheap do they need to be?

New evs start at around £20k

Used (and decent) EVs can be purchased from as little as £5k

you can lease a brand new ev from around £162 a month.

Is that out of reach for 'the majority' ?
Which one can you lease for £162 per month, and are you sure that there isn't an upfront payment needed as well?
Yes, I reckon I could get a lease deal on a plaid.
£99/month for 3 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!






All I have to do is put down a £116000 deposit

Northernboy

11,063 posts

225 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
ITP said:
Yes, I reckon I could get a lease deal on a plaid.
£99/month for 3 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I have to do is put down a £116000 deposit
I really hate this idea of quoting monthly payments while ignoring the fact that you can only get those if you put down a deposit, too. It probably comes from working in finance, but I'd lose my job (rightly) if I quoted a product this way.

A £12,000 deposit plus £500 per month for two years is £1,000 per month for two years, not £500.

t's completely dishonest, whether it's a company trying to hide the ownership of a car or a poster lying about how much you can buy an EV for to make a point that they can't make honestly.

Hopefully that's not the case here, but I'm going to be skeptical until he returns with an actual example of the supposed monthly cost.

MrGTI6

2,148 posts

98 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
I really hate this idea of quoting monthly payments while ignoring the fact that you can only get those if you put down a deposit, too. It probably comes from working in finance, but I'd lose my job (rightly) if I quoted a product this way.

A £12,000 deposit plus £500 per month for two years is £1,000 per month for two years, not £500.

It's completely dishonest, whether it's a company trying to hide the ownership of a car or a poster lying about how much you can buy an EV for to make a point that they can't make honestly.
Well said.

Bobskirs6

77 posts

47 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Massive power and torque with electric motors is not exactly hard and I cannot see £100k+ in this thing. In fact I am struggling to see why these electric cars cost as much as they do.

otolith

45,081 posts

172 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Bobskirs6 said:
Massive power and torque with electric motors is not exactly hard and I cannot see £100k+ in this thing. In fact I am struggling to see why these electric cars cost as much as they do.
Business opportunity for you then.

Dave Hedgehog

13,495 posts

172 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Bobskirs6 said:
Massive power and torque with electric motors is not exactly hard and I cannot see £100k+ in this thing. In fact I am struggling to see why these electric cars cost as much as they do.
1000bhp? 0-150mph in low 9 seconds??

its a nats cock slower on the qtr mile than the 2 million quid Rimmac C2

faster than a P1 around laguna seca in a 3 tonne saloon

anybody else make an electric motor like this?

https://electrek.co/2021/06/14/elon-musk-tesla-new...

its a performance bargain of the century

silentbrown

6,735 posts

84 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
Which one can you lease for £162 per month, and are you sure that there isn't an upfront payment needed as well?
Closest I can get is Smart Fortwo Coupe, 1+48, 5K miles p/a, £183.60

Nissan Leaf is about £210 on a similar profile.

Similar ICE cars are about £150/month


Northernboy

11,063 posts

225 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
Closest I can get is Smart Fortwo Coupe, 1+48, 5K miles p/a, £183.60

Nissan Leaf is about £210 on a similar profile.

Similar ICE cars are about £150/month
Yes, my skeptic senses are tingling at this point. I'm intrigued now as to whether there really is a lease at £162.

Pixelpeep Z4

6,908 posts

110 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
why?

How cheap do they need to be?

New evs start at around £20k

Used (and decent) EVs can be purchased from as little as £5k

you can lease a brand new ev from around £162 a month.

Is that out of reach for 'the majority' ?
Which one can you lease for £162 per month, and are you sure that there isn't an upfront payment needed as well?
£162.15 a month and Initial rental: £1,459.39 inc VAT

that gets you into a Smart Fortwo Electric Coupe 60kw Eq Premium 17kwh 2dr Auto
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/smart...


If you want something a little more mainstream

Volkswagen Id.3 Electric Hatchback 107kw Life Pro 62kwh 5dr Auto
£267.86 a month and Initial rental: £2,410.71 inc VAT
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/volks...

You might not like the two options i've chosen, but that's not to say others won't, and, if people are going to generalise and speak on behalf of the entire UK "prices need to plummet before people will buy them" i thought i would show entry level evs are not out of reach for the average joe.

Northernboy

11,063 posts

225 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
£162.15 a month and Initial rental: £1,459.39 inc VAT

that gets you into a Smart Fortwo Electric Coupe 60kw Eq Premium 17kwh 2dr Auto
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/smart...


If you want something a little more mainstream

Volkswagen Id.3 Electric Hatchback 107kw Life Pro 62kwh 5dr Auto
£267.86 a month and Initial rental: £2,410.71 inc VAT
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/volks...

You might not like the two options i've chosen, but that's not to say others won't, and, if people are going to generalise and speak on behalf of the entire UK "prices need to plummet before people will buy them" i thought i would show entry level evs are not out of reach for the average joe.
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.

TyrannosauRoss Lex

27,526 posts

180 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
£162.15 a month and Initial rental: £1,459.39 inc VAT

that gets you into a Smart Fortwo Electric Coupe 60kw Eq Premium 17kwh 2dr Auto
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/smart...


If you want something a little more mainstream

Volkswagen Id.3 Electric Hatchback 107kw Life Pro 62kwh 5dr Auto
£267.86 a month and Initial rental: £2,410.71 inc VAT
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/volks...

You might not like the two options i've chosen, but that's not to say others won't, and, if people are going to generalise and speak on behalf of the entire UK "prices need to plummet before people will buy them" i thought i would show entry level evs are not out of reach for the average joe.
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.
So for the price you said I can just get a car which had a real world range of 50 miles. Great. Or I could go for the other option which is about 2x the price you mentioned.

Pixelpeep Z4

6,908 posts

110 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.
My apologies for not supplying every last detail on that deal, There is no 'dishonesty' it's £162 a month. Its how leases work. Initial payment then a monthly payment.

You may prefer to add the deposit into the monthly cost, to work out total cost of ownership, but that's not how leases are advertised.

You don't see mortgages advertised with the monthly figure that includes the deposit do you?

anyway..

the point is, not all EVs are expensive. Same as ICE, low spec is cheaper, if you want a nicer car with more features then you need to pay more money.




Pixelpeep Z4

6,908 posts

110 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Northernboy said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
£162.15 a month and Initial rental: £1,459.39 inc VAT

that gets you into a Smart Fortwo Electric Coupe 60kw Eq Premium 17kwh 2dr Auto
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/smart...


If you want something a little more mainstream

Volkswagen Id.3 Electric Hatchback 107kw Life Pro 62kwh 5dr Auto
£267.86 a month and Initial rental: £2,410.71 inc VAT
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/volks...

You might not like the two options i've chosen, but that's not to say others won't, and, if people are going to generalise and speak on behalf of the entire UK "prices need to plummet before people will buy them" i thought i would show entry level evs are not out of reach for the average joe.
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.
So for the price you said I can just get a car which had a real world range of 50 miles. Great. Or I could go for the other option which is about 2x the price you mentioned.
Just giving examples. i am sorry they don't fit exactly with YOUR budget or requirements, but your individual situation doesn't mean you can speak on behalf of everyone.


fblm

18,911 posts

231 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Northernboy said:
fblm said:
How many people who buy a 100 grand car only have one car?
I'd imagne quite a few. Most people aren't car enthusiasts, and an even greater proportion of people buying EVs aren't. In London parkking spaces and permits are not exactly easy to come by, so irrespective of wealth one car is quite common.

Looking around the neighbours here most have a £100k+ car, and about half of those have it as their only car.
Outside of a few wealthy enclaves with no parking I think that's wrong. According to the ONS only 24% of households in the top income decile only have 1 car. That's ''only'' a gross pretax household income of 110k and you have to assume the vast majority of people buying 120k cars have a household income of 110k no?


TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
fblm said:
How many people who buy a 100 grand car only have one car?
But when we're talking about an only EV future it's not well and good to say "just have a petrol car too".
...
But it's going to take 20+ years to get there by which time I have no doubt we will not need an ICE car as backup, if one is actually needed. In the mean time there's going to be a mix. Most wealthy households (gross 75k+ income) have 2 cars already, as do most car enthusiasts (IME). If you regularly do big drives EV's aren't for you, if you only do occasionally just rent. I really struggle to see why it's a problem.

Edited by fblm on Tuesday 15th June 16:25

Northernboy

11,063 posts

225 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
My apologies for not supplying every last detail on that deal, There is no 'dishonesty' it's £162 a month. Its how leases work. Initial payment then a monthly payment.
YOu said it could be had for X a month. It can't be, if you offer to pay that much per month they won't let you have one, you have to pay extra money.

It's a ludicrous way to try to quote things, it's dishonest when dealers do it and dishonest when you do it.

TyrannosauRoss Lex

27,526 posts

180 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Northernboy said:
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.
My apologies for not supplying every last detail on that deal, There is no 'dishonesty' it's £162 a month. Its how leases work. Initial payment then a monthly payment.

You may prefer to add the deposit into the monthly cost, to work out total cost of ownership, but that's not how leases are advertised.

You don't see mortgages advertised with the monthly figure that includes the deposit do you?

anyway..

the point is, not all EVs are expensive. Same as ICE, low spec is cheaper, if you want a nicer car with more features then you need to pay more money.
Your mortgage analogy is a terrible example, mortgages are expressed as a rate of interest over a given period and they are all stated with 5/10/15/20% etc. deposit. Totally different proposition to this.

By your logic I could afford a Chiron on £162/month. All I need to do is stump up a £2m or whatever deposit.

ashenfie

260 posts

14 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Northernboy said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
why?

How cheap do they need to be?

New evs start at around £20k

Used (and decent) EVs can be purchased from as little as £5k

you can lease a brand new ev from around £162 a month.

Is that out of reach for 'the majority' ?
Which one can you lease for £162 per month, and are you sure that there isn't an upfront payment needed as well?
And how much is the other half of the car?

if you click 1 months initial rental and make it 10k miles per year you end up with £204 per month for little more than a hair dryer, bargin!


£162.15 a month and Initial rental: £1,459.39 inc VAT

that gets you into a Smart Fortwo Electric Coupe 60kw Eq Premium 17kwh 2dr Auto
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/smart...


If you want something a little more mainstream

Volkswagen Id.3 Electric Hatchback 107kw Life Pro 62kwh 5dr Auto
£267.86 a month and Initial rental: £2,410.71 inc VAT
https://www.pinkcarleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/volks...

You might not like the two options i've chosen, but that's not to say others won't, and, if people are going to generalise and speak on behalf of the entire UK "prices need to plummet before people will buy them" i thought i would show entry level evs are not out of reach for the average joe.

ashenfie

260 posts

14 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Northernboy said:
So not the price which you claimed then, although not far enough off that you couldn't have made the point honestly if you'd wanted.

So yes, you can get a two-seater city car with an extremely limited range for quite a low price.
My apologies for not supplying every last detail on that deal, There is no 'dishonesty' it's £162 a month. Its how leases work. Initial payment then a monthly payment.

You may prefer to add the deposit into the monthly cost, to work out total cost of ownership, but that's not how leases are advertised.

You don't see mortgages advertised with the monthly figure that includes the deposit do you?

anyway..

the point is, not all EVs are expensive. Same as ICE, low spec is cheaper, if you want a nicer car with more features then you need to pay more money.
Your mortgage analogy is a terrible example, mortgages are expressed as a rate of interest over a given period and they are all stated with 5/10/15/20% etc. deposit. Totally different proposition to this.

By your logic I could afford a Chiron on £162/month. All I need to do is stump up a £2m or whatever deposit.
Marketing. I. can say to my wife. "I got a deal on a new car it's only £349 a month". She says "Thats really good hun, lets get it". Then my B*lls are in a vice when she discovers Ive cleared out the savings account

Pixelpeep Z4

6,908 posts

110 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Your mortgage analogy is a terrible example, mortgages are expressed as a rate of interest over a given period and they are all stated with 5/10/15/20% etc. deposit. Totally different proposition to this.

By your logic I could afford a Chiron on £162/month. All I need to do is stump up a £2m or whatever deposit.
Reductio ad absurdum signals the end of our conversation. Thanks for taking part.

PhantomPH

3,916 posts

193 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Your mortgage analogy is a terrible example, mortgages are expressed as a rate of interest over a given period and they are all stated with 5/10/15/20% etc. deposit. Totally different proposition to this.

By your logic I could afford a Chiron on £162/month. All I need to do is stump up a £2m or whatever deposit.
Reductio ad absurdum signals the end of our conversation. Thanks for taking part.
You mean - because you were wrong, you're taking your ball in?