Will electric hot hatches be a hit ?

[Dave Hedgehog]

james_zy said:

In any case, one fantastic thing about them will be that we won't have the have the fking annoying pop and bang "remaps" that the 4D number plate crowd hold so dear to their hearts.

i just ordered 4d plates with a green bar and a BS mark

[DonkeyApple]

james_zy said:

In any case, one fantastic thing about them will be that we won't have the have the fking annoying pop and bang "remaps" that the 4D number plate crowd hold so dear to their hearts.

Won't it increase going forward as petrol cars get binned out to the poorer regions as the more affluent switch to EVs over the next 20-30 years and many operators in those poorer regions will go to more extremes to make the last cars louder as a social statement?

For example:

'Rolling coal is often done for entertainment purposes. Some drivers intentionally trigger coal rolling in the presence of hybrid vehicles (when it is nicknamed "Prius repellent"). Practitioners cite "American freedom" and a stand against "rampant environmentalism" as reasons for coal rolling.[4][5]'

[daytonavrs]

I personally have the impression these are not really going to fit into the hot hatch segment.

I think the guys in the combustions ( like the ones who overtook ) having more fun........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z-FNdKO0Js

[DonkeyApple]

daytonavrs said:

I personally have the impression these are not really going to fit into the hot hatch segment.

I think the guys in the combustions ( like the ones who overtook ) having more fun........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z-FNdKO0Js

The video does show two interesting phenomenon, that one's mum's car can be fun on a track day even if it's electric and that one's grandpa still hypermiles his MX5 even on a track day.

I think hothatch EVs will be a hit because at some point there won't be anything else for people to buy. Prior to that, younger folk will be taking old EV hatchbacks and decorating them, changing the suspension etc and manufacturers will copy what those people have been doing to market ready made products to the people who want it pre done. And the manufacturer will buy some trophies and sponsors whatever sport is on trend at the time to get the badge associated with the right mindset etc.

You won't have the noise but you'll ha e the visuals, the performance and the ethos and the little old lady at the lights in the same shape car will have the same performance.

It'll just be different but Gen X aren't raising an army of middle aged local authority risk assessment officers and actuaries. The you get drivers in 10 years time won't be some mystical new species of human that doesn't want to be an army of identical individuals and containing oils who want to barry along the highstreet carving people up and refusing to signal while playing music chosen for its association to cheap fanny and ability to offend old people.

[SWoll]

Forgetting about track days as not something 99% of owners will ever do, all this talk of weekend blasts where drivers are at full tilt for extended periods does make me laugh.

Utterly unrealistic on the public road in all but a tiny number of scenarios and the majority will just get the occasional blast whilst spending most of their time in traffic or cruising at relatively low speeds so will have negligible affect on range.

And this is where an EV hot hatch falls down for me, at lower speeds and for occasional blasts the fun factor just isn't there in comparison. The lack of noise and genuine interaction with the drivetrain makes the process rather one dimensional and offers little reason to drive just for the sake of driving IME.

EV's are fantastic at delivering everyday duties and are incredibly capable when you do decide to push on, but for those that want a car that makes them grab for the keys on a sunny Sunday morning just for the fun of it you're going to need to retain an ICE car.

[so called]

ddom said:

so called said:

Hi DonkeyApple, I was referring to Northernboy's comment of the i3 having a "real world range of about 110 miles".
That's not the early 20kWh i3 or i3Rex.
Maybe the 30kWh i3.
Not the 30kWh i3Rex
Not the 40kWh i3 or i3S.

More to the point, it's hardly a 'hot hatch'. Apart from the range, it's not especially quick beyond 50 mph and the ride is poor. No doubt up there with the better EV's. But....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMK_MbSrXZc

It is an interesting video and I know that the he could only choose from i3 BEV or i3 Rex but the Rex would have been the last choice for me.
I would also expect the i3S to shave quite a few seconds of the Rex time.

[anonymous-user]

SWoll said:

but for those that want a car that makes them grab for the keys on a sunny Sunday morning just for the fun of it you're going to need to retain an interesting ICE car.

Forgive my slight edit in bold above ^^^ :-)


Nobody is going to be keeping say an Insignia Diesel as their Sunday driving car just because it has an ICE........

[80s-new-man]

nope, i'll stick to proper cars with engines..i'm out

[Neil1323bolts]

80s-new-man said:

nope, i'll stick to proper cars with engines..i'm out

Ha yes indeed , but the engine will very soon be out also ! , buy up your ICE hot hatches now and squirrel them away for the future. I still think there will be a place for the electric hot hatch even if us old farts still prefer the petrol stuff , my 18 year old son for example don’t give a toss for ICE .

[ddom]

so called said:

It is an interesting video and I know that the he could only choose from i3 BEV or i3 Rex but the Rex would have been the last choice for me.
I would also expect the i3S to shave quite a few seconds of the Rex time.

Maybe, but hot hatches are all about fun, and the i3 never made me smile. Effective transport but missed the mark.

[southerndriver]

I’ve had an i3S Rex for a year and a half now and back in the day when they were current had several hot and warm hatches: Astra GTE, Astra GSi, MG Metro. By today’s performance standards those cars would barely be considered tepid but they are nevertheless part of the hot hatch story. On paper at least the i3S should be a hot hatch. The i3S and Astra GTE are almost exactly the same length although the i3 is 100mm wider and has a much smaller boot. Depending on what figures you use the i3S has around 170 hp so it ought to be fast and at low – middling speeds it’s very quick indeed compared to any petrol car which would need to change gear before taking off. I wonder how many of the experts on here criticising the i3’s performance have actually driven one ?

There’s a flaw, unfortunately and a serious one at that. Overall the ride quality on UK roads is ste. No doubt it’s fine driving around outside BMW’s technical centre in Munich but on a bumpy UK B road where the hot hatch should be flying the i3S will be bucking around, skipping from bump to bump and generally feeling unpleasant. It’s simply not up to the job. My 1984 MG Metro went round corners far better even if it couldn’t accelerate that well. If the ride and handling were up to standard I believe the i3 would be considered a worthy hot hatch. After all, the powertrain is fantastic and the seats superb in the hot hatch tradition. Steering feel is excellent and the RWD fanbois will be satisfied.

Edited by southerndriver on Friday 25th June 14:51

[sabre]

What is interesting is no one seems to discuss how the lost revenue from fuel will be recuperated, if we all end up electric (which for practicality reasons we wont).
E.g. will vehicle excise duty become £1500 for a car per year? or will you need special charging points at a higher taxed tariff? Fuel duty is about 2% of GDP so it WILL be replaced if fossil fuel cars disappear....or should this be its own topic? Hydrogen/hybrids may be the solution?

[Pommy]

SidewaysSi said:

Will an i3 survive a day of high speed lapping on a track?

And will a Caterham or an Elise take a weeks worth of family food shopping in the boot, a kid in a car seat, and your wife in the front seat all at the same.

Stupid fking question.

[Leon R]

Pommy said:

SidewaysSi said:

Will an i3 survive a day of high speed lapping on a track?

And will a Caterham or an Elise take a weeks worth of family food shopping in the boot, a kid in a car seat, and your wife in the front seat all at the same.

Stupid fking question.

It isn't though because the comparison is not with an Elise it is with an ICE hot hatch.

A clio 182 will survive a day on the track and also do your food shopping, take your kid in the car seat and your wife in the front seat.

[Pommy]

Leon R said:

Pommy said:

SidewaysSi said:

Will an i3 survive a day of high speed lapping on a track?

And will a Caterham or an Elise take a weeks worth of family food shopping in the boot, a kid in a car seat, and your wife in the front seat all at the same.

Stupid fking question.

It isn't though because the comparison is not with an Elise it is with an ICE hot hatch.

A clio 182 will survive a day on the track and also do your food shopping, take your kid in the car seat and your wife in the front seat.

An i3 will likely survive a day of high speed lapping as much as a 182.

However, a hot hatch isn't a track weapon for 99.9% of people and the question is so pointed so as to miss the point of what is being discussed. High speed lapping...sigh.

[DonkeyApple]

Pommy said:

An i3 will likely survive a day of high speed lapping as much as a 182.

However, a hot hatch isn't a track weapon for 99.9% of people and the question is so pointed so as to miss the point of what is being discussed. High speed lapping...sigh.


But the illusion is important for marketing purposes. It's the same illusion of showing a family estate on stilts driving offroad, the vehicle is a family estate on stilts or a hatchback shopping and vomiting budget car but that illusion, almost farcical of being Jason Plato or Ray Mears is important for selling the product.

I'm sure that manufacturers will Barry up some of their shopping and motobility EVs and they will pay some people to smash them up on a weekend to show that you too can be a racing driver just buy renting this product.

It's inconceivable that the hot hatch will evaporate just because the engine changes from petrol to electric. The customers might change but the end product won't.

[cerb4.5lee]

A good thread...apart from all the gushing over noddys car!(the i3).

I'm not really into electric cars(to say the least) but I do find myself strangely attracted to the electric Mini. I loved my F56 Cooper S(I actually miss it even more since I've had the M4 to be fair as well) so an electric Mini definitely appeals in some ways for sure.

I've also always enjoyed the traffic light grand prix, so I imagine these electric cars to be excellent at that for definite.

Edited by cerb4.5lee on Saturday 26th June 09:55

[ddom]

Pommy said:

And will a Caterham or an Elise take a weeks worth of family food shopping in the boot, a kid in a car seat, and your wife in the front seat all at the same.

Stupid fking question.

Yes. A Caterham took a weeks worth of my shopping and I grafted a child seat into it. It was also better at picking up Christmas trees

[ddom]

southerndriver said:

at low – middling speeds it’s very quick indeed compared to any petrol car which would need to change gear before taking off.a I wonder how many of the experts on here criticising the i3’s performance have actually driven one ?

There’s a flaw, unfortunately and a serious one at that. Overall the ride quality on UK roads is ste. No doubt it’s fine driving around outside BMW’s technical centre in Munich but on a bumpy UK B road where the hot hatch should be flying the i3S will be bucking around, skipping from bump to bump and generally feeling unpleasant

I’m sure the ride isn’t helped by the tyres, aren’t they specifically made to benefit rolling resistance? And tbh, most ‘M’ BMW’s ride poorly so it’s no great surprise that they switch to that default for the i3. As for speed, it’s 0-30 IIRC that was the party trick? Trouble is it ruins the range and once you’ve amused yourself getting the jump on various people at traffic lights the harsh ride really becomes annoying. It pigeon holes the car into probably the niche it was designed for, a city car.

[Pommy]

ddom said:

Pommy said:

And will a Caterham or an Elise take a weeks worth of family food shopping in the boot, a kid in a car seat, and your wife in the front seat all at the same.

Stupid fking question.

Yes. A Caterham took a weeks worth of my shopping and I grafted a child seat into it. It was also better at picking up Christmas trees

Good job the wife didn't need to come along as well as a push chair...