Will electric hot hatches be a hit ?
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
That's not entirely true though. Electric motors still need a gearbox because although they do have maximum torque from zero that drops off as speed rises. Hence although Tesla's don't gearboxes they have multiple motors with different gearing for acceleration and "highway".
I think Porsche/Audi are the only one's with 2 speed motors to date.I imagine so, the general public will love the aggressive styling and instant power.
They wont be for me though, electric cars are good at two things. Fast in a straight line and quiet, there's no nuance, they're very one dimensional.
Part of a good hot hatch is an engine that's a bit too big and makes a great noise, coupled to a light chassis and a decent manual box. Electric cars can offer none of those.
They wont be for me though, electric cars are good at two things. Fast in a straight line and quiet, there's no nuance, they're very one dimensional.
Part of a good hot hatch is an engine that's a bit too big and makes a great noise, coupled to a light chassis and a decent manual box. Electric cars can offer none of those.
While I think that there's massive scope for someone like Porsche to add a sound mode that emulates all their classic models (sell them in packs too).. and as someone mentioned, you can artificially add gears and the effects on torque, crikey even add a gearstick which is required... yes, you could actually emulate a hot hatch pretty well, and then have it sound like an air cooled 911, or an Integrale, or a Ferrari 360... whatever you wanted.... I suspect it'd be a waste.
You've seen how many people gravitate to the Golf R rather than the GTI... why? because more power and faster. Give them a fast compact EV, with instant torque and no gear changes, and I reckon not many will opt to go back to the slower, harder to drive way of doing things.
Yes, some people definitely do fit the bill of proper drivers who want proper drivers cars, the majority of the buying public may have it as a romantic notion, but given a fast easy to drive car, they'll take it every day.
You've seen how many people gravitate to the Golf R rather than the GTI... why? because more power and faster. Give them a fast compact EV, with instant torque and no gear changes, and I reckon not many will opt to go back to the slower, harder to drive way of doing things.
Yes, some people definitely do fit the bill of proper drivers who want proper drivers cars, the majority of the buying public may have it as a romantic notion, but given a fast easy to drive car, they'll take it every day.
Edited by phil4 on Thursday 17th June 14:52
Part of it is piloting something powerful yourself, the drivetrain has a big effect on how we enjoy it, but ask yourself if we hadnt heard IC engines, used a manual gearbox and electric was the norm, would we feel something was missing ?
Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
IC has only ever really been like a placeholder until the electric motor, a far superior device for propelling vehicles had the battery capacity, had some chemist in 18 o plonk arrived at decent battery back then, nobody would have really used ICE's for cars.
We have grown up with it, have an affinity for it and appreciate it but I dont think people being born now will be all that bothered, a bit like how pre war cars values dwindle as the people with any fondness or appreciation get too old and/or die off, same as will happen with the MK1 and 2 Escort owners, so on and so forth.
ICE will get aged out in the same way as individual models with the added incentive of efficiency, once the downsides are mitigated enough all the non petrolhead punters will switch in their droves, they are fickle, not daft. If its got the right badge, can be financed cost effectively etc, then you wont see them for dust.
Kids in the future will look on older cars like we look on veteran and vintage stuff, arcane, hard to operate, noisy, smelly and prone to breaking.
So, yeah, electric hot hatches will be a hit as there wont be anything else and there is always space for a sporty, faster, cooler looking version, its cars that are changing, not people, we are still vain show offs who like going too fast
Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
IC has only ever really been like a placeholder until the electric motor, a far superior device for propelling vehicles had the battery capacity, had some chemist in 18 o plonk arrived at decent battery back then, nobody would have really used ICE's for cars.
We have grown up with it, have an affinity for it and appreciate it but I dont think people being born now will be all that bothered, a bit like how pre war cars values dwindle as the people with any fondness or appreciation get too old and/or die off, same as will happen with the MK1 and 2 Escort owners, so on and so forth.
ICE will get aged out in the same way as individual models with the added incentive of efficiency, once the downsides are mitigated enough all the non petrolhead punters will switch in their droves, they are fickle, not daft. If its got the right badge, can be financed cost effectively etc, then you wont see them for dust.
Kids in the future will look on older cars like we look on veteran and vintage stuff, arcane, hard to operate, noisy, smelly and prone to breaking.
So, yeah, electric hot hatches will be a hit as there wont be anything else and there is always space for a sporty, faster, cooler looking version, its cars that are changing, not people, we are still vain show offs who like going too fast
Leon R said:
Realistically how long could you drive the i3 hard on a b road for?
About 4 or 5 corners and then it starts to limit power, if it's cold. It'll allow max power for a bit longer in warm weather. The standard i3 is a bit wobbly but the i3S is genuinely great fun to throw around.
J4CKO said:
Kids in the future will look on older cars like we look on veteran and vintage stuff, arcane, hard to operate, noisy, smelly and prone to breaking.
And slow-as...I was driving in a Surrey suburb yesterday and thinking about the number of high performance EVs I'd just seen in a few minutes - a Model S, couple of Model 3s, an IPACE. Even the bread and butter Teslas are chuffing quick, and these are all going to be in the secondhand market and in the hands of somewhat less socially responsible people soon. The traffic lights are going to be like the start of a pod race before long.
Jacobyte said:
Leon R said:
Realistically how long could you drive the i3 hard on a b road for?
About 4 or 5 corners and then it starts to limit power, if it's cold. It'll allow max power for a bit longer in warm weather. The standard i3 is a bit wobbly but the i3S is genuinely great fun to throw around.
phil4 said:
While I think that there's massive scope for someone like Porsche to add a sound mode that emulates all their classic models (sell them in packs too).. and as someone mentioned, you can artificially add gears and the effects on torque, crikey even add a gearstick which is required... yes, you could actually emulate a hot hatch pretty well, and then have it sound like an air cooled 911, or an Integrale, or a Ferrari 360... whatever you wanted.... I suspect it'd be a waste.
You've seen how many people gravitate to the Golf R rather than the GTI... why? because more power and faster. Give them a fast compact EV, with instant torque and no gear changes, and I reckon not many will opt to go back to the slower, harder to drive way of doing things.
Yes, some people definitely do fit the bill of proper drivers who want proper drivers cars, the majority of the buying public may have it as a romantic notion, but given a fast easy to drive car, they'll take it every day.
Definitely agree with this, I think the rise of DSG type gearboxes in hot hatches shows very well that many people just want to get in a car and hit the go pedal and be able to go as fast as possible, they don't really care about the other connection with the car from a manual gearbox or much of the time what powerplant is running the car, or even which wheels are driving the car down the road. You've seen how many people gravitate to the Golf R rather than the GTI... why? because more power and faster. Give them a fast compact EV, with instant torque and no gear changes, and I reckon not many will opt to go back to the slower, harder to drive way of doing things.
Yes, some people definitely do fit the bill of proper drivers who want proper drivers cars, the majority of the buying public may have it as a romantic notion, but given a fast easy to drive car, they'll take it every day.
Edited by phil4 on Thursday 17th June 14:52
I think if a manufacturer produces a sporty hatchback at around £40k or less which can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds many hot hatch buyers will lap it up.
Dave Hedgehog said:
even if thermals are not a problem on an EV i use 1% SoC per mile in play mode and the brakes are pretty much on fire at the end, worse even than an RS3 and thats saying something
1%? You're not trying very hard... In the Polestar 2 I can double that . Fortunately the performance pack Brembos are actually very good when hot.J4CKO said:
Part of it is piloting something powerful yourself, the drivetrain has a big effect on how we enjoy it, but ask yourself if we hadnt heard IC engines, used a manual gearbox and electric was the norm, would we feel something was missing ?
Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
The answer is no because it is literally impossible to miss what you've never had / experienced.Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
Leon R said:
Max_Torque said:
I've already got one, it's brilliant !
1,200 kg, 180 bhp, rwd, carbon tub, with a hatch at the back ;-)
Realistically how long could you drive the i3 hard on a b road for?1,200 kg, 180 bhp, rwd, carbon tub, with a hatch at the back ;-)
STe_rsv4 said:
Unless they can program the explosive bangs and crackles in so that the local numpties can impress the schoolgirls at the local car meets I don't think EV hot hatches will become highly sought after while the equivalent ICE is still available.
Stick one of these under the pedals so they can get all the pops they need: https://www.thetoyshop.com/collectibles/fidget-toy...
QuattroDave said:
Leon R said:
Max_Torque said:
I've already got one, it's brilliant !
1,200 kg, 180 bhp, rwd, carbon tub, with a hatch at the back ;-)
Realistically how long could you drive the i3 hard on a b road for?1,200 kg, 180 bhp, rwd, carbon tub, with a hatch at the back ;-)
phil4 said:
proper drivers who want proper drivers cars
Proper drivers can have fun in all sorts of things.Anyone who can't enjoy a car if it doesn't have enough ticks on a silly checklist isn't a proper driver, they're a corksniffer.
Though I do appreciate that you're using "proper driver" as code for "no true Scotsman".
Sporky said:
Though I do appreciate that you're using "proper driver" as code for "no true Scotsman".
So are you!No idea whether or not I'm a "proper driver" by anyone's definition, but personally I like, feel, involvement, a bit of noise, and minimal assistance. If that's not being a proper driver, I'm ok with that.
Leon R said:
J4CKO said:
Part of it is piloting something powerful yourself, the drivetrain has a big effect on how we enjoy it, but ask yourself if we hadnt heard IC engines, used a manual gearbox and electric was the norm, would we feel something was missing ?
Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
The answer is no because it is literally impossible to miss what you've never had / experienced.Answer is no, we would just accept that our personal transport was largely silent, had one gear ratio that covered all eventualities, was fast enough and very efficient.
Jacobyte said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
even if thermals are not a problem on an EV i use 1% SoC per mile in play mode and the brakes are pretty much on fire at the end, worse even than an RS3 and thats saying something
1%? You're not trying very hard... In the Polestar 2 I can double that . Fortunately the performance pack Brembos are actually very good when hot.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff