Middle class chap car of choice in your manor
Discussion
I'm not sure how we are defining middle-class here. Most of the descriptions on here to me sound rather affluent.
I'm in the leafy suburbs on the Cheshire/Manchester boundary, most of the housing is small detached or semi-detached. Most of the houses have a Nissan Qashqai or some other dull crossover on the drive. So I guess this would be considered a working class peasant area on here.
I'm in the leafy suburbs on the Cheshire/Manchester boundary, most of the housing is small detached or semi-detached. Most of the houses have a Nissan Qashqai or some other dull crossover on the drive. So I guess this would be considered a working class peasant area on here.
SturdyHSV said:
Yeah I sort of felt I had a rough idea of what 'middle class' meant, until I read this thread. Ignoring London because the whole thing is just insane, but it seems 'middle class' covers basically the entire spectrum from not being on benefits to owning a yacht.
Is it because Upper Class is exclusively for the 'landed gentry' types, so no matter how many millions you have, you're not considered upper class because your Aunt isn't a member of the nobility, leaving Middle Class to basically cover everyone that isn't being housed by the council?
I think a thread of 'What is Middle Class?' would be quite useful, although would just be full of the classic PH "I'd need at least a £15,000,000 lottery win to be able to retire" distortions
I do think "Middle Class" has some very strange boundaries or definitions in modern society. I don't consider myself to be middle class or even within any "class at all" even though I earn above average wages and live in a reasonable house in a nice part of West Yorkshire and yet my two colleagues who sit next to me have broadly similar circumstances and very much consider themselves middle class and love to tell people about it.Is it because Upper Class is exclusively for the 'landed gentry' types, so no matter how many millions you have, you're not considered upper class because your Aunt isn't a member of the nobility, leaving Middle Class to basically cover everyone that isn't being housed by the council?
I think a thread of 'What is Middle Class?' would be quite useful, although would just be full of the classic PH "I'd need at least a £15,000,000 lottery win to be able to retire" distortions
I think it is very much a state of mind thing rather than being based on actual wealth, I think if you believe yourself to be middle class and engage yourself in a perceived middle class lifestyle then you somehow become it.
I personally think the whole idea of a class system is outdated and not relevant anymore
There are economic definitions of class going back to Marx in relation to living off your labour or your capital, and there are definitions relating to income distribution, and there are definitions relating to values and attitudes. There's still a lot of outdated snobby b
ks in British attitudes.
ks in British attitudes.I would think if you're thinking along the lines of doctor/lawyer you're about there.
Of course modern times has dictated that a marketing or sales director earns more than either of the above on average, I suppose in theory doing that sort of role should afford you a similar sort of life across the UK.
Of course modern times has dictated that a marketing or sales director earns more than either of the above on average, I suppose in theory doing that sort of role should afford you a similar sort of life across the UK.
Well I live in a sort after village. Own my own home and drive a Mercedes(non amg)
My wife is a pa and I until recently was a consultant in the logistics industry.
I am definitely not middle class. You can take the boy out of the council estate but you cannot take the council estate out of the boy.
My childhood neighbour is now a senior officer in Leicester City Council but again I would not call them middle class either.
My wife is a pa and I until recently was a consultant in the logistics industry.
I am definitely not middle class. You can take the boy out of the council estate but you cannot take the council estate out of the boy.
My childhood neighbour is now a senior officer in Leicester City Council but again I would not call them middle class either.
citizensm1th said:
Well I live in a sort after village. Own my own home and drive a Mercedes(non amg)
My wife is a pa and I until recently was a consultant in the logistics industry.
I am definitely not middle class. You can take the boy out of the council estate but you cannot take the council estate out of the boy.
My childhood neighbour is now a senior officer in Leicester City Council but again I would not call them middle class either.
Well, using "sort" instead of "sought" would indicate council estate My wife is a pa and I until recently was a consultant in the logistics industry.
I am definitely not middle class. You can take the boy out of the council estate but you cannot take the council estate out of the boy.
My childhood neighbour is now a senior officer in Leicester City Council but again I would not call them middle class either.
But that aside, there are varying differences of definition of "class".
If someone on a council estate saw you getting in your car outside your house doing the job you do, would they think you are "working class" or "middle class"?
Can people "change" class - if it's social-economic then of course, however if it's defined by "how you speak, conduct yourself etc." type of class then maybe not...
For many, high income = upper class, middle income = middle class, else working class.
which is a nonsense imo, as it's not the definition of "class" but different people see if differently....
I know someone who had a reasonably good income, lives in a sizeable detached house, in a nice area, with a half-decent car, speaks well, other half is a doctor etc. but definitely sees themselves as working class (background defining that, although not council estate). However, outside looking in, no-one would think they are anything other than middle-class.....
Jamescrs said:
I do think "Middle Class" has some very strange boundaries or definitions in modern society. I don't consider myself to be middle class or even within any "class at all" even though I earn above average wages and live in a reasonable house in a nice part of West Yorkshire and yet my two colleagues who sit next to me have broadly similar circumstances and very much consider themselves middle class and love to tell people about it.
I think it is very much a state of mind thing rather than being based on actual wealth, I think if you believe yourself to be middle class and engage yourself in a perceived middle class lifestyle then you somehow become it.
I personally think the whole idea of a class system is outdated and not relevant anymore
I couldn't agree more.I think it is very much a state of mind thing rather than being based on actual wealth, I think if you believe yourself to be middle class and engage yourself in a perceived middle class lifestyle then you somehow become it.
I personally think the whole idea of a class system is outdated and not relevant anymore
Both my wife and I grew up on council estates, albeit in completely different parts of the UK. My dad worked in a factory, and then drove buses, and my mum was a school dinner lady. My wife's dad was a farm labourer and her mum was a hairdresser. Neither of our parents had money to spare, drove old cars, and a holiday was once a year, and involved a week at the coast somewhere. Some years if things were tight, we didn't even have that. We were happy, but money (or lack of) was definitely something we were aware of compared to some of our peers who even then had overseas holidays and whose parents drove shiny new cars. Of course, as kids we were more concerned about other kids than the parents, as it should be.
My kids are growing up in a far nicer house than either of us did, with parents who both have so-called "professional" jobs and have never done a day's true labour in their lives. But we are still those same council estate kids, our parents are still the same people, and I have nothing but pride and fond memories of where I grew up and the people I lived around and mixed with.
I see absolutely no reason to pigeon hole people into "class". It achieves nothing.
OMITN said:
Range Rovers generally (Vogues rather than sports) and the usual slew of X5s, Q7s and XC90s. The odd Bentayga.
I’ve only seen one Cullinan in these parts. But then this is The North, so the middle classes up here aren’t as well lined as you chaps in the Home Counties
But they sometimes have more cash as a result of not having to find/finance 800k for a nice (but unexceptional) 4 bed detached.I’ve only seen one Cullinan in these parts. But then this is The North, so the middle classes up here aren’t as well lined as you chaps in the Home Counties
Uncle John said:
It really more to do with what you earn & what level of nice things you can afford.
Ultimately though if you need to go to work to afford life then you are working class.
+1Ultimately though if you need to go to work to afford life then you are working class.
I think historically classes were defined by jobs and wages/salaries were almost ‘set’ for different types of jobs so you kind of knew where your job and therefore pay placed you in society.
But in recent decades with consumerism taking over from make do and mend, and more recently with globalisation and also self employment, things are more fluent. Anyone can set up a ltd company for less than £50 and be an MD and CEO, it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.
The only relevance of class now is probably education.
The more middle class/upper middle class would be defined by the level of education. Ie university and then professional qualifications afterwards.
Ultimately, unless you are landed gentry (in which case upper class) and living off the proceeds of the produce of your land (as opposed to BTL income), then you are working class as you need to work in order to survive.
Fat hippo said:
+1
I think historically classes were defined by jobs and wages/salaries were almost ‘set’ for different types of jobs so you kind of knew where your job and therefore pay placed you in society.
But in recent decades with consumerism taking over from make do and mend, and more recently with globalisation and also self employment, things are more fluent. Anyone can set up a ltd company for less than £50 and be an MD and CEO, it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.
The only relevance of class now is probably education.
The more middle class/upper middle class would be defined by the level of education. Ie university and then professional qualifications afterwards.
Ultimately, unless you are landed gentry (in which case upper class) and living off the proceeds of the produce of your land (as opposed to BTL income), then you are working class as you need to work in order to survive.
We could simplify this down to "do you add value or are you a parasite living off other peoples' efforts?" I think historically classes were defined by jobs and wages/salaries were almost ‘set’ for different types of jobs so you kind of knew where your job and therefore pay placed you in society.
But in recent decades with consumerism taking over from make do and mend, and more recently with globalisation and also self employment, things are more fluent. Anyone can set up a ltd company for less than £50 and be an MD and CEO, it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.
The only relevance of class now is probably education.
The more middle class/upper middle class would be defined by the level of education. Ie university and then professional qualifications afterwards.
Ultimately, unless you are landed gentry (in which case upper class) and living off the proceeds of the produce of your land (as opposed to BTL income), then you are working class as you need to work in order to survive.
okgo said:
It was a way of asking what people who have a few quid but aren't rolling in it drive near where you live. Nothing more.
All these council estate fables were not required, OP chose a term, it's not gone well for him.
I disagree it's a good humoured interesting thread, well it wasAll these council estate fables were not required, OP chose a term, it's not gone well for him.
I think there are a couple of points missed in this discussion. Firstly middle class professionals, eg Account Managers, Senior Management, Scientists etc may well have a car in lease, but it’s a company lease, a perk of the job so don’t really have a choice. But the money saved on their combined (husband and wife) 120k income means nice house a something reasonable for the missus. All those old money types in the million pound houses have 30k in school fess to fund so have to smoke around in a 10 year old wagon. Assuming the school fees aren’t being funded by a legacy/ or the grand parents.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I think there are a couple of points missed in this discussion. Firstly middle class professionals, eg Account Managers, Senior Management, Scientists etc may well have a car in lease, but it’s a company lease, a perk of the job so don’t really have a choice. But the money saved on their combined (husband and wife) 120k income means nice house a something reasonable for the missus. All those old money types in the million pound houses have 30k in school fess to fund so have to smoke around in a 10 year old wagon. Assuming the school fees aren’t being funded by a legacy/ or the grand parents.
lol.A successful sales rep and an urban architect live in parallel universes that intersect only in the income bracket. They do have in common that they do not like the notion of class.
The same is not true for either the working class or the upper class. Jobless factory workers share a whole world, and so do Eton boys. They are much more willing to identify themselves as members of a group, and they may even call their group a class.
It's true though that contemporary manufacturers have long since stopped producing recognizably working-class or upper-class cars. Hence the muddle.
The same is not true for either the working class or the upper class. Jobless factory workers share a whole world, and so do Eton boys. They are much more willing to identify themselves as members of a group, and they may even call their group a class.
It's true though that contemporary manufacturers have long since stopped producing recognizably working-class or upper-class cars. Hence the muddle.
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