RE: Festival of Speed green lit as a pilot event
Discussion
otolith said:
RSTurboPaul said:
What are your views on the matters raised?
That the grownups are trying cautiously to get things back to normality.Can this be a FoS thread, please, and the nutters go back to NPE?
Excellent.
Surely 'grown-ups' would acknowledge the fact that 'normality' does not involve being denied the ability to do anything until you prove you are 'safe'?
I wish FoS and the Reunion events the very best in terms of success, it is a unique event AFAIK and needs to survive, but they have been put in this position by Govt, at whose door we should be laying the blame for the current situation - not 'the anti-vaxxers'
or those against 'guilty-until-proven-innocent' vaccine passports/testing regimes.The fact we have 90+% of the vulnerable jabbed and 80+% of the whole population showing antibodies, yet we have more restrictions than last summer when we had no vaccinations available, is ridiculous.
I hope those going have a great time, but I expect the 'success' of the 'No proof, No Entry' approach to be forced on us in the future.
If we don't object now, we won't be able to object later.
ch37 said:
RSTurboPaul said:
If we don't object now, we won't be able to object later.
If we all object now, the event won't exist in the future.Govt could - and should - release all restrictions now. It doesn't get better than the current situation.
livinginasia said:
So pleased to see FOS going ahead
Luckily I have two tickets with grandstands for the full four days but looks like I can’t go! Disaster !
Does anyone have any suggestions as the best place to sell them? I really can’t stand the scammers on the popular auction sites.
Do the tickets have T&Cs on them?Luckily I have two tickets with grandstands for the full four days but looks like I can’t go! Disaster !
Does anyone have any suggestions as the best place to sell them? I really can’t stand the scammers on the popular auction sites.
Some events restrict onward sales.
RSTurboPaul said:
ch37 said:
RSTurboPaul said:
If we don't object now, we won't be able to object later.
If we all object now, the event won't exist in the future.Govt could - and should - release all restrictions now. It doesn't get better than the current situation.
You don’t have to go?
ch37 said:
I completely agree, but it's a lobbying exercise more so than something that's actually logical. For every FoS and British GP there are many, many motorsport events (or indeed any other type of event) still running under strict rules (for motorsport that is paddock segregation and 4000 capacity) that haven't been granted the luxury of being held under ERP conditions.
I imagine a lot of motorsport/event organisers that don't happen to have a title in their name or are running a globally important event are pretty annoyed that what could be perfectly safe outdoor events are still unable to happen. The Event Research Programme hasn't even produced any data as far as I'm aware, and if my knowledge of the process is right, showing a negative LFT on the gate at FoS doesn't actually place you at the event, so what data they can pull from that down the line is sketchy at best.
It makes no sense - I've seen plenty of disgruntled people connected to various events/circuits who could run perfectly safe events, but can't. Wembley/Wimbledon - both enclosed venues, yet the wide open spaces of Brands Hatch/Donington for example, can't. Nothing but favouritism, and it's not fair. I imagine a lot of motorsport/event organisers that don't happen to have a title in their name or are running a globally important event are pretty annoyed that what could be perfectly safe outdoor events are still unable to happen. The Event Research Programme hasn't even produced any data as far as I'm aware, and if my knowledge of the process is right, showing a negative LFT on the gate at FoS doesn't actually place you at the event, so what data they can pull from that down the line is sketchy at best.
2gins said:
Smartypants is half right, but if you want to do it scientifically you test/survey everyone going in and everyone 2 days afterwards and double test positives so you track the increase in infection arising from mixing at the event. Then you also need a control event, at which you do exactly the same but the event has no restrictions whatsoever. You can then track the effectiveness of vaccination status at preventing infections, reducing severity of any leakage and the effect of social restrictions on spread (which for a substantially outdoors event like a festival, is going to be close to nil).
That's if you wanted to be scientific about it and reach an evidence-based conclusion that would allow you to open up larger events in a manner proportionate to the risk. On the other hand if you just wanted to justify a pre-determined decision with some 'data' that can be easily spun either way to suit whatever the decision is, you do an uncontrolled experiment looking at the wrong parameter, get some eminent scientists to give the hammed-up results a veneer of credibility, censure any dissenting voices asking awkward questions and use social media echo chambers and dubious 'fact checkers' to brand the dissenters as heretics and cranks.
This.That's if you wanted to be scientific about it and reach an evidence-based conclusion that would allow you to open up larger events in a manner proportionate to the risk. On the other hand if you just wanted to justify a pre-determined decision with some 'data' that can be easily spun either way to suit whatever the decision is, you do an uncontrolled experiment looking at the wrong parameter, get some eminent scientists to give the hammed-up results a veneer of credibility, censure any dissenting voices asking awkward questions and use social media echo chambers and dubious 'fact checkers' to brand the dissenters as heretics and cranks.
2gins said:
We're so lucky we don't have an authoritarian government in this country and are allowed to openly challenge policy by asking fair questions that then get fair answers, without being denigrated by an angry mob.
I'm presuming sarcasm... lolSkylinecrazy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
ch37 said:
RSTurboPaul said:
If we don't object now, we won't be able to object later.
If we all object now, the event won't exist in the future.Govt could - and should - release all restrictions now. It doesn't get better than the current situation.
You don’t have to go?
'Do it this way or go bankrupt' is pretty much blackmail.
otolith said:
RSTurboPaul said:
otolith said:
Spend a few minutes taking a free test or don’t go, either way quit whining.
Your country thanks you for your unquestioning servitude, comrade.It's a good job the past 15 months hasn't been characterised by constantly shifting goalposts and ever changing criteria on which our freedom will apparently be returned if met (which then, alas, are not met and must be delayed and/or changed to something else), as otherwise it would seem pretty obvious that 'vaccine passport' use will be extended as far as possible just as soon as they can manipulate the public enough to get them demanding that the filthy unvaccinated scum need to be eliminated from public spaces 'because danger'.
2gins said:
Smartypants is half right, but if you want to do it scientifically you test/survey everyone going in and everyone 2 days afterwards and double test positives so you track the increase in infection arising from mixing at the event. Then you also need a control event, at which you do exactly the same but the event has no restrictions whatsoever. You can then track the effectiveness of vaccination status at preventing infections, reducing severity of any leakage and the effect of social restrictions on spread (which for a substantially outdoors event like a festival, is going to be close to nil).
That indeed would be correct if the aim was to gauge the spread of covid at similar events at a time where it was possible to run an identical event with no entry stipulations, rather than observe the effect of this event on the overall countrywide figures. I agree it's not perfect, but also cannot understand why people feel this is such a big issue.
Ultrafunkula said:
2gins said:
Smartypants is half right, but if you want to do it scientifically you test/survey everyone going in and everyone 2 days afterwards and double test positives so you track the increase in infection arising from mixing at the event. Then you also need a control event, at which you do exactly the same but the event has no restrictions whatsoever. You can then track the effectiveness of vaccination status at preventing infections, reducing severity of any leakage and the effect of social restrictions on spread (which for a substantially outdoors event like a festival, is going to be close to nil).
That indeed would be correct if the aim was to gauge the spread of covid at similar events at a time where it was possible to run an identical event with no entry stipulations, rather than observe the effect of this event on the overall countrywide figures. I agree it's not perfect, but also cannot understand why people feel this is such a big issue.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-anno...
GOV.UK said:
Researchers at the events will gather evidence associated with different settings and approaches to managing and mitigating transmission risk. The pilots will explore how different approaches to social distancing, ventilation and test-on-entry protocols could ease opening and maximise participation. Covid-status certification will also be trialled as part of the pilot programme.
By their own words, they are supposed to be understanding a range of different approaches. That should include a 'control', as all experiments worth anything do.All they are doing now is saying 'approach X has this outcome'.
With no Control in place, we don't know if X is better or worse than 'No action taken'.
If the Control (of no restrictions at all) has the same or better outcomes, why would you do anything else (that cost more money, was more hassle, and impinged on civil liberties)?
Well, unless the aim was indeed to create an industry for monitoring and tracking and restricting individuals...
Government has just published a report on the Events Research Programme:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-publ...
Its key finding appears to be: "events with high crowd density and proximity could potentially pose a greater transmission risk".
I think most people could have told the Government that some time ago, but if these investigations into the obvious help keep events like the FoS open then so be it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-publ...
Its key finding appears to be: "events with high crowd density and proximity could potentially pose a greater transmission risk".
I think most people could have told the Government that some time ago, but if these investigations into the obvious help keep events like the FoS open then so be it.
otolith said:
Thin end of the wedge my arse, we all do far more onerous things all the time to protect each other's safety. Your obsession with this is bizarre. If you can't see that, seek help.
Respectfully, if you can't see that the Government has spent the last 15 months extending restrictions by any means possible, changing the narrative and 'freedom criteria' as needed to ensure compliance and then failure to achieve freedom, and don't think that they wouldn't 'scope creep' a 'vaccine passport' system in a similar fashion, it may not be me needing to 'seek help'.As noted before, the ease and speed of a 'test to prove your innocence' has no bearing on the unacceptability of the reversal of the 'innocent until proven guilty' ethos that took years and lives to embed within UK law.
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