RE: Aston Martin plots even wilder Valkyrie

[AJM6]

This whole project is taking so long that you could be forgiven for thinking they’re releasing the mid-life facelift before the launch edition!

Come on Aston, some of us are rooting for you!

[Venturist]

JxJ Jr. said:

The strategy seems to work, at least to some extent. It'll be interesting to see Nebula's side of the story, because aside from potential wrongdoing on their side, there's also a bit of a whiff of Aston trying to extricate themselves what they may now see as an unfavourable deal.

It’s certainly not a straightforward story, but reading between the lines it smells like perhaps Nebula kept hold of customer deposits and ringfenced instead of passing them along to Aston, who were using them to fund development and generally keep the company afloat (not sure but I believe this to be legally questionable, or if not then certainly ethically questionable). This may well be in breach of contract but your average joe would say the dealership is doing the right thing there. Aston decide one day to paint Nebula as the bad guy trying to screw the customers in question, and have a go at suing them to squeeze a few quid out.

Seems odd to have a go at them now though - you can see they have lots of corporate ties to the gentlemen in charge & by all accounts their dealership was a particularly profitable one, handling lots of the specials. Who knows.

[WCZ]

kbee540 said:

Trying really hard to care. Failing.
Making ugly c*ck-waving cars to compete with Ferrari and Mclaren just makes them seem rather gauche.

I agree to some extent but this a focused halo car, a technological masterpiece and isn't a cock waver imo its styling is based on functionality

it simply has to be the price it is to exist because of the exotic parts and extensive r&d

[thegreenhell]

samoht said:

"So, what's our PR strategy for this dispute with Nebula?"
"Ah yes, good point, a complex financial deal with some mysterious Swiss money men falling through and losing us millions doesn't exactly project strong, competent leadership"
"I guess saying the deal was cooked up by the previous guys doesn't help?"
"Nah, finger-pointing doesn't go down well in the court of public opinion. We need a distraction"
"Ok, maybe something highly visual and Valkyrie related, no journo can resist a good image"
"Right... I'll ask around in Styling, sure one of those crayon types will have wasted an afternoon drawing out something ridiculous that we'd never build"
"Good idea, it just needs to look cool and be tied to the Valkyrie. Then at least the news pages will lead with the car, and bury our lost millions in a footnote."

Definitely a strange coincidence that this was 'leaked' on the same day as news of the Swiss shenanigans.

[thegreenhell]

Krikkit said:

jl34 said:

redroadster said:

Rear wing not latest thinking type a la porsche Swan kneck.

i think Adrian Newey can wipe the floor with any aero engineer from Porsche and we can presume he knows what he is doing !

Haven't Red Bull and AM split over this project already?

Either way they're clearly not pursuing every ounce of efficient downforce with that wing design, otherwise it'd be a swan-neck and endplated version. Newey or not, some things are known well enough by now.

Have they 'split', or simply completed the terms of the contract? I'd imagine that the road car project is now sufficiently advanced that Newey shouldn't need to be fiddling with it anymore. If they're expecting to deliver customer cars later this year then the project should be with Multimatic getting ready for production by now.

AM did end their sponsorship of the Red Bull F1 team, but that was because Stroll already had his own F1 team, and moved the sponsorship money there instead. I don't think it was anything to do with Valkyrie.

[varsas]

jl34 said:

redroadster said:

Rear wing not latest thinking type a la porsche Swan kneck.

i think Adrian Newey can wipe the floor with any aero engineer from Porsche and we can presume he knows what he is doing !

Gordon commented on them in his GMA T.50 interviews, can't remember what he said, but essentially it's not needed. They do look good, and are a unique feature, so that was probably most of the reason for them on the Porsche.

[Venturist]

SJR said:

Hold the press !! Conceptual non existant supercar multi million pound deposits paid by speculators "go missing" shock following split between Aston Martin and Red Bull !!!


http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/06/22/aston-mar...

I assume TVR punters for the "new'" TVR Griffith got their deposits back, assuming they were sensible enough to ask for a refund.

Don't forget to click through to the letter:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2...

AM were due to pay large royalties to the dealership and are awfully keen to let people know that they’ll be off the hook for those now

[FiddleSticks]

varsas said:

jl34 said:

redroadster said:

Rear wing not latest thinking type a la porsche Swan kneck.

i think Adrian Newey can wipe the floor with any aero engineer from Porsche and we can presume he knows what he is doing !

Gordon commented on them in his GMA T.50 interviews, can't remember what he said, but essentially it's not needed. They do look good, and are a unique feature, so that was probably most of the reason for them on the Porsche.

I wouldn’t normally go against the godfather but swan necks are prevalent on a lot of racing machinery because they are a better design when mounting the wing on struts in the centre - they allow the more sensitive-to-imperfections lower wing surface to remain free of any bracketry and be slightly more efficient. It’s a small effect, but it’s free if that’s where you are mounting, it’s not that much more complex to design a mount to suit. Slight drag penalty but generally favourable on aerodynamic efficiency.
With the Valkyrie so hot on its aero I’d expect them to be using the best available setup, GMA to be fair is more interested in driving experience so probably less important to them/him.
Examples VW ID.R, Bentley GT3, huracan gt3, r8 gt3 etc
And bear in mind those are developed by standalone motorsport firms so don’t be tempted to think it’s just a VAG thing

[wst]

WCZ said:

I agree to some extent but this a focused halo car, a technological masterpiece and isn't a cock waver imo its styling is based on functionality

I find the idea of a focused halo car being announced and taking so long to develop that a 2nd more focused halo car is announced before the first one is released to be pretty funny. Or is this one the third?

[JxJ Jr.]

Venturist said:

It’s certainly not a straightforward story, but reading between the lines it smells like perhaps Nebula kept hold of customer deposits and ringfenced instead of passing them along to Aston, who were using them to fund development and generally keep the company afloat (not sure but I believe this to be legally questionable, or if not then certainly ethically questionable). This may well be in breach of contract but your average joe would say the dealership is doing the right thing there. Aston decide one day to paint Nebula as the bad guy trying to screw the customers in question, and have a go at suing them to squeeze a few quid out.

Equally, though, it could be that Aston are not automatically entitled to receive that money, may have failed to meet certain criteria to unlock further funding or otherwise breached their obligations.

Nebula said:

“Aston Martin’s allegations against us in connection with the Aston Martin mid-engine programs are wholly unfounded...On the contrary, we and our customers have been severely affected by Aston Martin’s behavior as a partner in the project, including delaying Valkyrie customer deliveries by more than two years due to the late start of production...The unilateral cancellation of the contract is unlawful and unjustified...ready to take the necessary steps to protect its contractual rights....contracts have to be honored despite any shareholders and management changes..."

[myhandle]

It looks so much better than the Valhalla, which looks seriously awkward.

[JBL]

Aston usually waits until customers of its 'limited' edition specials have actually taken delivery before pulling their trousers down by announcing another better 'limited' edition of the same thing.

Now it appears they are doing so before their customers have even taken delivery.

Good to see that the fumbling brand management at Gaydon is still alive and well under the new boss!

[BlackandWhite]

kbee540 said:

Trying really hard to care. Failing.

I know, I know....here I am commnenting on an article about something I claim not to care about, but god zero-taste gazillion-pound hypercars are getting boring and special editions of zero taste gazillion pound hypercars are just ridiculous. I'm one small voice that doens't matter, but I'm sure I'm not alone in basing my affection for Aston Martin on the 'gentlemans express' classy yet understated take on GT cars they've personified for so long. Making ugly c*ck-waving cars to compete with Ferrari and Mclaren just makes them seem rather gauche.

Finally some kind of sense I can relate to.

[BlackandWhite]

WCZ said:

kbee540 said:

Trying really hard to care. Failing.
Making ugly c*ck-waving cars to compete with Ferrari and Mclaren just makes them seem rather gauche.

I agree to some extent but this a focused halo car, a technological masterpiece and isn't a cock waver imo its styling is based on functionality

it simply has to be the price it is to exist because of the exotic parts and extensive r&d

Not a cock waving car. Have you actually looked at the pictures......

[skinny]

I think I'm confused. The Valkyrie is a road going car. The AMR Pro is a focused track version. And whatever this is, is a road going version of the AMR Pro?

[MDMetal]

I think the rear wing is influenced by the new f1 2022 car designs personally. Given that when the car was conceived they were RedBull sponsors and they've now been bought by Stroll I'm guessing there was a discussion to add more "F1" to the road car so they can align it better.

[kbee540]

WCZ said:

kbee540 said:

Trying really hard to care. Failing.
Making ugly c*ck-waving cars to compete with Ferrari and Mclaren just makes them seem rather gauche.

I agree to some extent but this a focused halo car, a technological masterpiece and isn't a cock waver imo its styling is based on functionality

it simply has to be the price it is to exist because of the exotic parts and extensive r&d

You make a good point regarding it's position as a halo car and the necessary cost of development. I just wonder why all 'halo' cars only seem to have the same purpose of going faster around a racetrack; a laudable thing, but of very little consequence to the cars people can buy and drive. If a halo car doesn't lead to the real cars being lighter, or more efficient, or better packaged, or more confortable, or cheaper to produce, or more sustainable, etc.....then one can only assume we're back to appendage waggling.

[chandrew]

JxJ Jr. said:

Venturist said:

It’s certainly not a straightforward story, but reading between the lines it smells like perhaps Nebula kept hold of customer deposits and ringfenced instead of passing them along to Aston, who were using them to fund development and generally keep the company afloat (not sure but I believe this to be legally questionable, or if not then certainly ethically questionable). This may well be in breach of contract but your average joe would say the dealership is doing the right thing there. Aston decide one day to paint Nebula as the bad guy trying to screw the customers in question, and have a go at suing them to squeeze a few quid out.

Equally, though, it could be that Aston are not automatically entitled to receive that money, may have failed to meet certain criteria to unlock further funding or otherwise breached their obligations.

Nebula said:

“Aston Martin’s allegations against us in connection with the Aston Martin mid-engine programs are wholly unfounded...On the contrary, we and our customers have been severely affected by Aston Martin’s behavior as a partner in the project, including delaying Valkyrie customer deliveries by more than two years due to the late start of production...The unilateral cancellation of the contract is unlawful and unjustified...ready to take the necessary steps to protect its contractual rights....contracts have to be honored despite any shareholders and management changes..."

What I think is fascinating is that one 'loyal customer' of Aston Martin St. Gallen was one 'Lawrence Stroll'
https://squaremile.com/gear/cars/andreas-baenziger...

It's their R-Reforged business which is responsible for the Callum Vanquish. Aston Martin St. Gallen unashamedly focused on the top end of the market, especially the limited editions. Last time I visited they had an exhibition of all the Aston Martin Zagato cars & in their service department that day were a One-77, a Vulcan and a Vantage V600 Le Mans. They have a Valkyrie mobile service vehicle parked outside.

[anonymous-user]

28th of June is the unveiling it would seem. Just enough time to sharpen those pitch forks.