WTF happened to bargain V8s ?!

WTF happened to bargain V8s ?!

Author
Discussion

Trackdayer

1,090 posts

40 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.
Amazing is a pretty strong word for a car that's undeniably competent but ultimately still a very predictable, mainstream choice. What people do with their money is their own business but stretching one's budget to just about pick up a BMW which is only made to look reliable by its V10 big brother's bork factor seems a bit unsound as an ownership prospect. If we then assume it will be sold on for a profit then we need to catch up on a lot of deferred maintenance such that a bottom-of-the-M3-market car is even usable after 3-5 years of earning its keep.

By way of direct comparison, and staying well away from any assumed borkage, everyone can agree cars which get driven need new brakes.

Genuine E92 M3 front discs - £440/pair
https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/genuine-b...

Rover SD1 front discs - £78/pair - £224/pair depending on plain or vented options
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID009014

Sure, you should be able to get cheap(er) pattern parts to scrape an aging and pretty complex BMW through its MOT each year, but the point is that it costs a lot more just in parts to run a BMW M-car than most other stuff mentioned on this thread. That's before we get into more subtle differences such as VED and insurance which is drastically different between fairly wafty cruiser type cars and the Innit Bruv M3 that image-conscious young men love to crash regularly. That shouldn't be prohibitive in its own right but stretching your finances to buy a car certainly won't help you pay for its upkeep and will likely undermine any notions of keeping it on the road for 5 years, let alone selling it for a profit.

TopTrump

3,218 posts

173 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
It's a reference to the movie Christine, I believe biggrin
Hehe, thanks Troubled. Indeed it is!

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
Amazing is a pretty strong word for a car that's undeniably competent but ultimately still a very predictable, mainstream choice. What people do with their money is their own business but stretching one's budget to just about pick up a BMW which is only made to look reliable by its V10 big brother's bork factor seems a bit unsound as an ownership prospect. If we then assume it will be sold on for a profit then we need to catch up on a lot of deferred maintenance such that a bottom-of-the-M3-market car is even usable after 3-5 years of earning its keep.

By way of direct comparison, and staying well away from any assumed borkage, everyone can agree cars which get driven need new brakes.

Genuine E92 M3 front discs - £440/pair
https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/genuine-b...

Rover SD1 front discs - £78/pair - £224/pair depending on plain or vented options
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID009014

Sure, you should be able to get cheap(er) pattern parts to scrape an aging and pretty complex BMW through its MOT each year, but the point is that it costs a lot more just in parts to run a BMW M-car than most other stuff mentioned on this thread. That's before we get into more subtle differences such as VED and insurance which is drastically different between fairly wafty cruiser type cars and the Innit Bruv M3 that image-conscious young men love to crash regularly. That shouldn't be prohibitive in its own right but stretching your finances to buy a car certainly won't help you pay for its upkeep and will likely undermine any notions of keeping it on the road for 5 years, let alone selling it for a profit.
I don't think I've ever seen a side by side comparison for the many, many people cross shopping an E92 M3 V8 and a Rover SD1 V8. I can't think why hehe

Fady

342 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.
I never get how anyone can make a 'profit' from virtually any mass produced vehicle. Nearly always a depreciating asset, often purchased on credit terms for which there is a charge. Then factor in running costs, servicing etc. Unless in some way exotic, those cars don't make money!

Deranged Rover

3,316 posts

73 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
The M3 V8 is indeed a truly amazing car and I'm definitely a fan.

But I'd still rather have a Rover SD1 V8. biggrin

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.
Along these lines wasn’t there a recent thread saying how a 10 year old C63 AMG would be pretty reliable AND can do all the daily stuff for 15-20k. Maybe that could replace the daily AND the want for a fun car if you really want a V8 and have a limited budget???

TopTrump

3,218 posts

173 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Deranged Rover said:
The M3 V8 is indeed a truly amazing car and I'm definitely a fan.

But I'd still rather have a Rover SD1 V8. biggrin
Name checks out. I agree actually. Also nothing smells like a Rover.

Trackdayer

1,090 posts

40 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Fady said:
I never get how anyone can make a 'profit' from virtually any mass produced vehicle. Nearly always a depreciating asset, often purchased on credit terms for which there is a charge. Then factor in running costs, servicing etc. Unless in some way exotic, those cars don't make money!
Nonsense. I ran an E46 M3 for 3 years and made 3k profit on it

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
Nonsense. I ran an E46 M3 for 3 years and made 3k profit on it
Very fortuitous timing, or is the man maths strong here?

Trackdayer

1,090 posts

40 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
SturdyHSV said:
Very fortuitous timing, or is the man maths strong here?
Every car has fuel and consumables. But on purchase price alone the E46 was profitable. E9x series are only going that way too.

Either way the OP should be aware it's an option.

Trackdayer

1,090 posts

40 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
Amazing is a pretty strong word for a car that's undeniably competent but ultimately still a very predictable, mainstream choice. What people do with their money is their own business but stretching one's budget to just about pick up a BMW which is only made to look reliable by its V10 big brother's bork factor seems a bit unsound as an ownership prospect. If we then assume it will be sold on for a profit then we need to catch up on a lot of deferred maintenance such that a bottom-of-the-M3-market car is even usable after 3-5 years of earning its keep.

By way of direct comparison, and staying well away from any assumed borkage, everyone can agree cars which get driven need new brakes.

Genuine E92 M3 front discs - £440/pair
https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/genuine-b...

Rover SD1 front discs - £78/pair - £224/pair depending on plain or vented options
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID009014

Sure, you should be able to get cheap(er) pattern parts to scrape an aging and pretty complex BMW through its MOT each year, but the point is that it costs a lot more just in parts to run a BMW M-car than most other stuff mentioned on this thread. That's before we get into more subtle differences such as VED and insurance which is drastically different between fairly wafty cruiser type cars and the Innit Bruv M3 that image-conscious young men love to crash regularly. That shouldn't be prohibitive in its own right but stretching your finances to buy a car certainly won't help you pay for its upkeep and will likely undermine any notions of keeping it on the road for 5 years, let alone selling it for a profit.
Mainstream doesn't mean it's not amazing. Nor does rare make something desirable. What is a good indication of how good a car is is the price people are willing to pay for it. I don't believe for a minute an old Rover is more reliable than a BMW. E9x have very few issues.

Your brake disc argument is a rather arbritrary measure of maintenance costs. Why not factor in say rust repairs on both cars? And why should money be the decisive factor in any case? I'd argue a modern car with 414bhp is worth paying ~£1.50 a day in VED.

Is the young male stereotype of the M3 any worse than the "my wife left me for a younger man because I was applying waxoyl to my SD1 in my
shed" image for the Rover? It works both ways.

By all means there are some great ideas on this thread but let's not pretend for a minute an SD1 is anything other than a skip on wheels with a dismally slow engine.

MikeM6

4,985 posts

101 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.
Amazing is a pretty strong word for a car that's undeniably competent but ultimately still a very predictable, mainstream choice. What people do with their money is their own business but stretching one's budget to just about pick up a BMW which is only made to look reliable by its V10 big brother's bork factor seems a bit unsound as an ownership prospect. If we then assume it will be sold on for a profit then we need to catch up on a lot of deferred maintenance such that a bottom-of-the-M3-market car is even usable after 3-5 years of earning its keep.

By way of direct comparison, and staying well away from any assumed borkage, everyone can agree cars which get driven need new brakes.

Genuine E92 M3 front discs - £440/pair
https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/genuine-b...

Rover SD1 front discs - £78/pair - £224/pair depending on plain or vented options
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID009014

Sure, you should be able to get cheap(er) pattern parts to scrape an aging and pretty complex BMW through its MOT each year, but the point is that it costs a lot more just in parts to run a BMW M-car than most other stuff mentioned on this thread. That's before we get into more subtle differences such as VED and insurance which is drastically different between fairly wafty cruiser type cars and the Innit Bruv M3 that image-conscious young men love to crash regularly. That shouldn't be prohibitive in its own right but stretching your finances to buy a car certainly won't help you pay for its upkeep and will likely undermine any notions of keeping it on the road for 5 years, let alone selling it for a profit.
You knew this was coming... But I detect an awful lot of prejudgement in your response, sadly also misplaced. I'll not go to the "innit bruv M3" comment as I think that speaks for itself.

A 400hp, naturally aspirated, daily useable, 4.0 V8 stuffed into a smallish coupe or saloon is pretty amazing. They are great cars, which is partly why they are so popular. Believe me, these cars will be missed when they are gone.

Yes they can cost a fair wack to run, but so can any performance car. If properly cared for, they are (like the V10 you mention) fairly robust. There are plenty of daily used 100k+ mile S65 and S85 engines on the roads that are a testament to that. I know of one V10 that is approaching 200k miles....

As pointed out, they are appreciating nicely now and so running costs are not as simple as how much it costs to service them. If you can buy one cheap and sort it out, or buy a good one at a reasonable price now, you may end up quids in having enjoyed a few years of fun. Think of all those that bought cheap 996s, E46 M3s and various fast Fords... how many really regret that now?


Arnold Cunningham

3,758 posts

252 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
TopTrump said:
Hehe, thanks Troubled. Indeed it is!
I think you are the first person on PH to have ever noticed - so you caught me on the hop after all these years!
I'd forgotten that was what I set my username too - although I was immediately looking the line up, because I couldn't quite remember...film, or book, both or neither.


Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Wednesday 23 June 17:53

alec.e

2,149 posts

123 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Fady said:
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
b) At the bottom of it's depreciacion curve.

Buy one now, even with a loan, sell it in 3-5 years for a profit.
I never get how anyone can make a 'profit' from virtually any mass produced vehicle. Nearly always a depreciating asset, often purchased on credit terms for which there is a charge. Then factor in running costs, servicing etc. Unless in some way exotic, those cars don't make money!
They can and do, in my case owned a M6 V10 for two years, spent a decent chunk on upgrades, ect. Still made around 2k 'profit' when I sold it. So it can happen, luck of the draw?

mike74

3,687 posts

131 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Remarkable how many threads like this are popping up just now.

Are people unaware of the huge sums of profligate helicopter money the government has flooded our long failed economy with under the guise of supposed ''covid support''

njw1

2,053 posts

110 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Deranged Rover said:
Trackdayer said:
OP - You could justify getting a BMW M3 V8. Although expensive, it's

a) An amazing car (let's be honest, a Rover isn't!)
The M3 V8 is indeed a truly amazing car and I'm definitely a fan.

But I'd still rather have a Rover SD1 V8. biggrin

As a huge BMW fan, so would I, especially if it's a twin plenum Vitesse. lick

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
alec.e said:
They can and do, in my case owned a M6 V10 for two years, spent a decent chunk on upgrades, ect. Still made around 2k 'profit' when I sold it. So it can happen, luck of the draw?
You mean you actually got more back for it than you spent in total? That's really quite impressive!

njw1

2,053 posts

110 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
SturdyHSV said:
Very fortuitous timing, or is the man maths strong here?
Every car has fuel and consumables. But on purchase price alone the E46 was profitable. E9x series are only going that way too.

Either way the OP should be aware it's an option.


I sold my M5 for considerably more than what I paid for it, I also spent considerably more than what I earned from the sale on upkeep during my ownership....

....Cars don't make money in my experience.

Drive it fix it repeat

1,046 posts

50 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
Trackdayer said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Amazing is a pretty strong word for a car that's undeniably competent but ultimately still a very predictable, mainstream choice. What people do with their money is their own business but stretching one's budget to just about pick up a BMW which is only made to look reliable by its V10 big brother's bork factor seems a bit unsound as an ownership prospect. If we then assume it will be sold on for a profit then we need to catch up on a lot of deferred maintenance such that a bottom-of-the-M3-market car is even usable after 3-5 years of earning its keep.

By way of direct comparison, and staying well away from any assumed borkage, everyone can agree cars which get driven need new brakes.

Genuine E92 M3 front discs - £440/pair
https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/genuine-b...

Rover SD1 front discs - £78/pair - £224/pair depending on plain or vented options
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID009014

Sure, you should be able to get cheap(er) pattern parts to scrape an aging and pretty complex BMW through its MOT each year, but the point is that it costs a lot more just in parts to run a BMW M-car than most other stuff mentioned on this thread. That's before we get into more subtle differences such as VED and insurance which is drastically different between fairly wafty cruiser type cars and the Innit Bruv M3 that image-conscious young men love to crash regularly. That shouldn't be prohibitive in its own right but stretching your finances to buy a car certainly won't help you pay for its upkeep and will likely undermine any notions of keeping it on the road for 5 years, let alone selling it for a profit.
Mainstream doesn't mean it's not amazing. Nor does rare make something desirable. What is a good indication of how good a car is is the price people are willing to pay for it. I don't believe for a minute an old Rover is more reliable than a BMW. E9x have very few issues.

Your brake disc argument is a rather arbritrary measure of maintenance costs. Why not factor in say rust repairs on both cars? And why should money be the decisive factor in any case? I'd argue a modern car with 414bhp is worth paying ~£1.50 a day in VED.

Is the young male stereotype of the M3 any worse than the "my wife left me for a younger man because I was applying waxoyl to my SD1 in my
shed" image for the Rover? It works both ways.

By all means there are some great ideas on this thread but let's not pretend for a minute an SD1 is anything other than a skip on wheels with a dismally slow engine.
Reminds me of the waxoyled cat thread from many years ago, may have come from a land rover forum. Anyone know what I’m thinking of?