Do You Prefer Newer or Older cars?
Discussion
I often have disagreements in my social circle over whether older of newer cars are best.
I grew up in the 70's and 80's and drove the best at the time such as Mexico's, RS2000's, 2.8i Capris, HSR Chevette etc, then went on the Astra GTE's, Manta's etc, then on into the 90's with Supra's, Skylines etc.
Loved them all at the time but wouldn't drive one now, because IMO newer cars are better. I normally invoke the line "you wouldn't use a 20-30 year old phone/laptop/TV etc, so why would you use a car of the same era?"
I understand that folk have preferences, but to argue that older cars are better seems off to me.
Thoughts?
I grew up in the 70's and 80's and drove the best at the time such as Mexico's, RS2000's, 2.8i Capris, HSR Chevette etc, then went on the Astra GTE's, Manta's etc, then on into the 90's with Supra's, Skylines etc.
Loved them all at the time but wouldn't drive one now, because IMO newer cars are better. I normally invoke the line "you wouldn't use a 20-30 year old phone/laptop/TV etc, so why would you use a car of the same era?"
I understand that folk have preferences, but to argue that older cars are better seems off to me.
Thoughts?
Newer cars are safer, more refined, more comfortable, more economical and performance is better.
However they're also bigger, heavier and so have lost some of the tactile feel and nimbleness that comes with that.
I'd prefer a slightly older car which isn't old but still has some of the traits. To me the 90's through to 2010 is the sweetspot.
Well made, good performance and good feel.
However they're also bigger, heavier and so have lost some of the tactile feel and nimbleness that comes with that.
I'd prefer a slightly older car which isn't old but still has some of the traits. To me the 90's through to 2010 is the sweetspot.
Well made, good performance and good feel.
I'm currently looking out of my window at my 26 year old BMW 520i, which as of next month I will have owned for 8 years. It's outlasted it's replacement, my E39, which is currently for sale, and it's currently occupying the space on the driveway which should be occupied by my Land Rover Discovery 4, which has just shat its engine and I await news from the warranty company as to whether they will cover it.
I like my 520i.
I like my 520i.
In terms of fun, you can't beat the great older cars. Lighter, smaller and more agile, easier to place on the road, lots of steering feel and you can enjoy driving at road legal speeds, etc.
Truth is, I prefer modern cars. I don't drive a lot of "fun" roads anymore so I prefer a car that can just blast past A road traffic at will and in comfort. My 540i is the opposite of light, fun and agile. However, I love the modern tech like ambient lighting, high beam assist, phone connectivity, USB music playback, etc. Modern is more boring but more convenient. Old is more characterful and fun but ultimately, harder to live with once you're used to modern tech and driver aids.
Truth is, I prefer modern cars. I don't drive a lot of "fun" roads anymore so I prefer a car that can just blast past A road traffic at will and in comfort. My 540i is the opposite of light, fun and agile. However, I love the modern tech like ambient lighting, high beam assist, phone connectivity, USB music playback, etc. Modern is more boring but more convenient. Old is more characterful and fun but ultimately, harder to live with once you're used to modern tech and driver aids.
I have a 1981 Alfetta GTV in the garage, and it feels "old". It's a lovely thing to drive on a nice day, but the heater is typical 70s in the winter (crap), and the gearing is not conducive to modern motorway speeds.
My daily driver is a 2001 Alfa 156 diesel, and when I compare this to modern stuff, I really don't see what has changed, other than a load of bulls
t connectivity and tacky crap on the dash. The aircon works, leather interior, does 90 all day on the motorway, returns about 48 mpg when driven sensibly. It's fully depreciated, costs buttons to maintain, and with an LSD, is rather good fun to drive.
My daily driver is a 2001 Alfa 156 diesel, and when I compare this to modern stuff, I really don't see what has changed, other than a load of bulls
t connectivity and tacky crap on the dash. The aircon works, leather interior, does 90 all day on the motorway, returns about 48 mpg when driven sensibly. It's fully depreciated, costs buttons to maintain, and with an LSD, is rather good fun to drive. rxe said:
I have a 1981 Alfetta GTV in the garage, and it feels "old". It's a lovely thing to drive on a nice day, but the heater is typical 70s in the winter (crap), and the gearing is not conducive to modern motorway speeds.
My daily driver is a 2001 Alfa 156 diesel, and when I compare this to modern stuff, I really don't see what has changed, other than a load of bullst connectivity and tacky crap on the dash. The aircon works, leather interior, does 90 all day on the motorway, returns about 48 mpg when driven sensibly. It's fully depreciated, costs buttons to maintain, and with an LSD, is rather good fun to drive.
You make an interesting point about your 156 - a colleague described my 2001 BMW 530i as "an old new car", and my 1995 520i as a "new old car". Like your Alfa, my E39 has good aircon, nice interior, cruises well without screaming its bMy daily driver is a 2001 Alfa 156 diesel, and when I compare this to modern stuff, I really don't see what has changed, other than a load of bulls
t connectivity and tacky crap on the dash. The aircon works, leather interior, does 90 all day on the motorway, returns about 48 mpg when driven sensibly. It's fully depreciated, costs buttons to maintain, and with an LSD, is rather good fun to drive. ks off. Apart from a load of infotainment ste a driver used to a "new" car could get in it and not feel like they'd stepped back to the dark ages. Hard to believe that both our cars are 20 years old!Another factor is many of us cannot afford / are not willing to buy new performance cars at enormous prices. So it is comparing old performance cars to new non-performance cars. Plus, modern performance cars are very capable but lacking character. You cannot get a car like my TVR Tuscan new today at sensible prices. What new car could I buy at c. 30k that would compare?
For my daily driver, not sure much of us see the value in modern infotainment / soft touch interiors etc to merit the cost of a new car. Plus older cars tend to have character that newer cars lack. Don't get me wrong modern cars are much better than older cars, but do I really want to spend 30k on a car that I'll do 2000 miles a year in toodling to the shops and back?
For my daily driver, not sure much of us see the value in modern infotainment / soft touch interiors etc to merit the cost of a new car. Plus older cars tend to have character that newer cars lack. Don't get me wrong modern cars are much better than older cars, but do I really want to spend 30k on a car that I'll do 2000 miles a year in toodling to the shops and back?
Edited by Cascade360 on Wednesday 23 June 12:03
Old stuff for me. Get a good one to start with, properly rust proof it and just use it like anything else. Far more fun and engaging than anything modern on the road.
I have only once broken down driving older cars in all my life (my 25 year old BMW shat its water pump). Otherwise I just use them with no special treatment at all.
In contrast, I was speaking to a friend at the weekend who has bought a new ID3 - had it less than 4 months but lost all drive to the car. VW have been sitting on it for 2 months seemingly unable to diagnose/fix the issue.
I have only once broken down driving older cars in all my life (my 25 year old BMW shat its water pump). Otherwise I just use them with no special treatment at all.
In contrast, I was speaking to a friend at the weekend who has bought a new ID3 - had it less than 4 months but lost all drive to the car. VW have been sitting on it for 2 months seemingly unable to diagnose/fix the issue.
rxe said:
I have a 1981 Alfetta GTV in the garage, and it feels "old". It's a lovely thing to drive on a nice day, but the heater is typical 70s in the winter (crap), and the gearing is not conducive to modern motorway speeds.
What it can't do 50mph! No wait it's now 40, oops 60, no 50 againSteering feel and to a lesser extent overall engagement are what's missing for me in modern cars. And I'm not talking about hydraulic power assistance, I'm talking about the time when cars were light enough and tyres were narrow and slippery enough for unassisted steering to be feasible. And even then most cars didn't have nice feeling steering.
Nowadays you have to go for a lightweight car to get that - basically an Elise.
Plus I miss thin rimmed steering wheels which promoted a more relaxed approach to driving, slim pillars which gave the car an airy feel and you could generally see all four corners, and just the general way cars used to move around on their softer suspension and higher profile tyres back then which gave a more connected feeling to the driving process even when you weren't pushing hard.
I don't dislike new cars. I like more old ones than modern ones though, so I'd go with I prefer older cars and my preferred generations are the 70s and 80s, when cars were modern enough to mostly have 5 speed gearboxes, performance of an actual performance car was good (and has always been really), most things worked well enough, they didn't break down every 5 miles unless they were build by British Leyland (or, ironically, the Alfas I enjoyed most from that period), and it was easy enough to find a car that didn't have some or other glaring deficiency like atrocious brakes, stab-you-through-the-heart steering columns, or fuel tanks that exploded on impact.
Someone earlier mentioned a 1981 GTV. I had one of those too, one of the last of the chrome bumper ones. It's still the best car I've ever owned, but to be fair I haven't driven one in 20 years so it's hard to say what driving one now would feel like, however my memories of that car are of a number of atrributes I loved and just don't find in modern machinery. It was a car you really drove, and it was just always so communicative and engaging, while having room for 2 adults and two people with no legs, enough heating for South Africa where I was
and, well mine was unreliable but I still kind of managed it as a daily even though it was already 10 years old and knackered when I got it. The only modern thing I could get to replace the driving experience would be an Elise.
Nowadays you have to go for a lightweight car to get that - basically an Elise.
Plus I miss thin rimmed steering wheels which promoted a more relaxed approach to driving, slim pillars which gave the car an airy feel and you could generally see all four corners, and just the general way cars used to move around on their softer suspension and higher profile tyres back then which gave a more connected feeling to the driving process even when you weren't pushing hard.
I don't dislike new cars. I like more old ones than modern ones though, so I'd go with I prefer older cars and my preferred generations are the 70s and 80s, when cars were modern enough to mostly have 5 speed gearboxes, performance of an actual performance car was good (and has always been really), most things worked well enough, they didn't break down every 5 miles unless they were build by British Leyland (or, ironically, the Alfas I enjoyed most from that period), and it was easy enough to find a car that didn't have some or other glaring deficiency like atrocious brakes, stab-you-through-the-heart steering columns, or fuel tanks that exploded on impact.
Someone earlier mentioned a 1981 GTV. I had one of those too, one of the last of the chrome bumper ones. It's still the best car I've ever owned, but to be fair I haven't driven one in 20 years so it's hard to say what driving one now would feel like, however my memories of that car are of a number of atrributes I loved and just don't find in modern machinery. It was a car you really drove, and it was just always so communicative and engaging, while having room for 2 adults and two people with no legs, enough heating for South Africa where I was
and, well mine was unreliable but I still kind of managed it as a daily even though it was already 10 years old and knackered when I got it. The only modern thing I could get to replace the driving experience would be an Elise.Edited by kiseca on Wednesday 23 June 12:29
Andy665 said:
I'd consider myself a petrolhead and have worked in the automotive industry for 25+ years, 90%+ of current stuff bores me rigid, magazine reading supports this with no current subscriptions to anything that has its focus set on stuff currently in production
Exactly the same as me.Even with a budget of £1 million, I can’t think of anything brand new and mainstream that gets me all giddy, (excluding a Caterham or similar).
A £1 million budget to spend on used from the 1970’s-1990’s however, and I’d feel like I was spoilt for choice, (not that I’m ever likely to be in the position of having £1 million to spend on cars).
Same with magazine subscriptions. Back in the day I’d subscribe to Fast Ford, Street Machine, Fast Lane, Motorsport News, Autosport, Performance Car, EVO, Octane. Now I can’t even remember the last time I bought a car magazine.
I like cars from about 10-15 years ago.
They had a decent amount of equipment (e.g. aircon, satnav, safety) and a decent amount of performance without being too hampered by troublesome emissions equipment or the fashion for enormous, unroadworthy alloys.
Right now, I can't think of any new car I would prefer over what I currently have.
I am hoping that in several years time when I will be needing to buy another car, maybe electric cars and charging infrastructure will have matured.
They had a decent amount of equipment (e.g. aircon, satnav, safety) and a decent amount of performance without being too hampered by troublesome emissions equipment or the fashion for enormous, unroadworthy alloys.
Right now, I can't think of any new car I would prefer over what I currently have.
I am hoping that in several years time when I will be needing to buy another car, maybe electric cars and charging infrastructure will have matured.
There is a part of me that would love to drive around in an 80's or 90's car, and the fact even the most common are now rare makes them far more interesting. But have to admit that the older I get, the more the lack of safety concerns me, especially because you could be the best driver in the world but are still reliant on other people (such as that video a few months ago by the poster who got it head on by an overtaking Passat). Then there's the fact I increasingly like creature comforts such as climate control or heated seats, and don't have the enthusiasm to conduct the extra maintenance they require.
SidewaysSi said:
What's all this talk about safety? A 70s car is safer than a new Caterham. Not sure there would be much left of you if hit side on by a RR for example.
Live a little and take some risks - the fun and enjoyment is worth the added danger of death.
For me a factory fresh Caterham demonstrates the difference between a new car and a modern car. I doubt many of the posters have a Caterham in mind when talking about newer cars.Live a little and take some risks - the fun and enjoyment is worth the added danger of death.
It's an old car. Even if it was built yesterday.
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