RE: Living with an Enyaq | PH Footnote
Discussion
fruitoftheloon said:
£7 for 60 miles, chocolate teapot much???
It's a very occasional cost where you are covering big miles in a day, and still cheaper than petrol/diesel.Charging at home overnight we pay 12p per kW and get on average 3 miles/kW so 4p per mile, or £2.40 for those 60 miles. There are even cheaper tarrifs than that, and our BEV isn't particularly efficient either as has 500bhp.
The article is another example of reporting EV life at its most awkward. Having run them as daily cars for 2+ years now the reality is that 99% of the time they are far more convenient than ICE and the running costs are laughable in comparison.
PSB1967 said:
The sticking point for me with EV's is simply that the battery is only warranted for 8 yrs and it appears quite difficult to get replacements without spending huge sums, which negates much of any fuel savings (yes I know ICE can go pop too). I suspect the battery will continue long past 8 yrs, but at what efficiency? Then the dreaded range anxiety will become a nightmare.....
That won’t bother most new buyers though as they’ll be on a 3 or 4 year lease and be handed back. Trackdayer said:
My bad. Morning maths 
Still, why are they charging so much for electricity? EVs are supposed to be cheap to run?
I feel your morning maths pain. Still, why are they charging so much for electricity? EVs are supposed to be cheap to run?
Looked at another way, charged at home on an appropriate off peak tarrif, 80MWh is £4. For ~200-250 (ish) miles. That’s cheap.
I’ve done 20k in a very crappy electric (it works for my routine). I reckon it’s easily 1ppm and probably less for “fuel”.
SWoll said:
Having run them as daily cars for 2+ years now the reality is that 99% of the time they are far more convenient than ICE and the running costs are laughable in comparison.
I suggested we might get one. Wife now tells me, in complete horror in her voice, about how all the chargers were in use everytime she goes to the out-of-town M&S. It's 8 miles away.She has it in her head that the car has to be recharged after every drive. I wonder if that's a commonly held belief?
I think about getting an EV every now and then but then the costs are so much bigger to buy one outright you really have to be doing decent miles to justify it on a purely cost-basis. But then if you are, you're going to potentially end up with a range anxiety issue more commonly than you would like. There's a tension here.
So then leases - somewhat of a fixed-cost way to dip your toe in an EV for a fixed-time unless you buy it after which people rarely seem to. Really these costs are quite favourable compared to ICE leases and there are some great deals from time to time.
However leases often come with very low mileage limits, and if you're genuinely using low miles then you won't have the range anxiety but you also won't have the cost savings either!
IMO I've started to think of EVs as a luxury proposition. You're paying more not to refuel (in general) but for either the monthly or upfront cost of owning one. What you're getting back in return is the warm flow of not smashing out local emissions, a nice town driving experience, and generally better refinement. It's also luxury not having to worry about maintenance so much, as a decent EV will cost less to own from a maintenance perspective up until you hit the battery refresh/replacement point.
I'm not sure that deal works for me at the moment, but I don't judge anyone who is happy to jump in.
What is interesting is that I doubt folks who want EVs want a 5+ year old one. The people I know with them seem to rotate around and like to try a range (no pun intended) of what's out there. So those people are mostly leasing or at least adding to the country's stock of EVs as they are triggering them to be manufactured but not using them for their complete working-life.
I wonder if that might create a situation where the market becomes oversupplied with working (if not new) EVs that will mean people like me can pick up a used Kona for example, because that owner traded up to a Tesla or somesuch. It feels like there might be some slightly different market dynamics than we have with ICE anyway.
So then leases - somewhat of a fixed-cost way to dip your toe in an EV for a fixed-time unless you buy it after which people rarely seem to. Really these costs are quite favourable compared to ICE leases and there are some great deals from time to time.
However leases often come with very low mileage limits, and if you're genuinely using low miles then you won't have the range anxiety but you also won't have the cost savings either!
IMO I've started to think of EVs as a luxury proposition. You're paying more not to refuel (in general) but for either the monthly or upfront cost of owning one. What you're getting back in return is the warm flow of not smashing out local emissions, a nice town driving experience, and generally better refinement. It's also luxury not having to worry about maintenance so much, as a decent EV will cost less to own from a maintenance perspective up until you hit the battery refresh/replacement point.
I'm not sure that deal works for me at the moment, but I don't judge anyone who is happy to jump in.
What is interesting is that I doubt folks who want EVs want a 5+ year old one. The people I know with them seem to rotate around and like to try a range (no pun intended) of what's out there. So those people are mostly leasing or at least adding to the country's stock of EVs as they are triggering them to be manufactured but not using them for their complete working-life.
I wonder if that might create a situation where the market becomes oversupplied with working (if not new) EVs that will mean people like me can pick up a used Kona for example, because that owner traded up to a Tesla or somesuch. It feels like there might be some slightly different market dynamics than we have with ICE anyway.
Mr E said:
It’s pretty unforgivable that the screen is as bad as it is. I presume this one is prior to the fixes being applied?
A few days ago i tried the ID3 and i suspect the screen/tech/OS behind all the infotainment stuff is very similar. I really don't want to sound old an bitter but i was a bit shocked how bad the whole setup in these VWs is. There are touch buttons for almost everything and it couldn't have annoyed me more. Changing the volume, setting the temp, even on the steering wheel everything was touch.
My thoughts while using it:
"How do i start the A/C?
Ah, there is a submenu.
Why is the On/Off button on the screen blue on blue? I pressed it, but nothing happend, did it recognize my finger? Ah no, i have to try again, now it works.
Ok, i want it a degree colder, i can do that with this touch button. Ok, nothing is happening, did i miss this button aswell? Ok, after 5 seconds it worked, just seems to be slow " and so on.
It is still beyond me what was wrong with a few buttons combined with a touchscreen for all the other stuff. I am prepared to drive a 30 year old car rather than an ergonomics disaster like this.
Edited by ae2006 on Saturday 3rd July 10:46
I got a new model Seat Leon estate in March this year and it's infotainment screen has gone AWOL twice. Turning the engine off, leaving the car and locking didn't reset it immediately, but leaving it for 30 minutes the first time and 3 hours the second, did. Not impressed. I guess it's the same brain across the latest MEB and MQB platforms.
Off topic, but the 1.5 150TSi is lovely and it did a relatively traffic free return trip Bristol-Newcastle-Bristol showing 59 mpg this week! Not super-quick but cruising just above the speed limit where possible. And that was loaded above the window line with heavy stuff (daughter having just finished uni).
Off topic, but the 1.5 150TSi is lovely and it did a relatively traffic free return trip Bristol-Newcastle-Bristol showing 59 mpg this week! Not super-quick but cruising just above the speed limit where possible. And that was loaded above the window line with heavy stuff (daughter having just finished uni).
Edited by juniperz on Saturday 3rd July 10:59
Edited by juniperz on Saturday 3rd July 11:00
rxe said:
£7 for 60 miles is a lot more than diesel. Even my 19 year old daily driven hard does 44 MPG, diesel is a fiver a gallon. I’m inclined to agree, the review reads like an ordinary car with much to much worry about fueling it. Stuff that I simply don’t have to worry about today.
You yourself say your diesel does 44 miles per gallon.
Average uk cost of 1 gallon of diesel right now is (according to google) £5.07
60 miles @ 44 mpg is 1.36 gallons ie a cost of £6.91, shall we call it, ohh, £7 eh
So basically, filling your EV with the most expensive possible electricity is basically the same cost as you currently pay, and are persumably completely ok with, for your derv? (if you sign up to the subscription services for fast charging, or charge from home, the costs tumble. Over 5 years with our EV we averaged an equivalent of over 240 mpg in terms of energy costs.
But "EV's aren't cost effective" apparently?
Seriously, people on here would make a good attempt at arguing that blue was red if they could get some sort of slur in against an EV whilst doing it......
ae2006 said:
A few days ago i tried the ID3 and i suspect the screen/tech/OS behind all the infotainment stuff is very similar.
I really don't want to sound old an bitter but i was a bit shocked how bad the whole setup in these VWs is. There are touch buttons for almost everything and it couldn't have annoyed me more. Changing the volume, setting the temp, even on the steering wheel everything was touch.
My thoughts while using it:
"How do i start the A/C?
Ah, there is a submenu.
Why is the On/Off button on the screen blue on blue? I pressed it, but nothing happend, did it recognize my finger? Ah no, i have to try again, now it works.
Ok, i want it a degree colder, i can do that with this touch button. Ok, nothing is happening, did i miss this button aswell? Ok, after 5 seconds it worked, just seems to be slow " and so on.
It is still beyond me what was wrong with a few buttons combined with a touchscreen for all the other stuff. I am prepared to drive a 30 year old car rather than an ergonomics disaster like this.
Aren't all the latest VWs like that? Wife has a 5yr old Tiguan and reading the Tiguan forum owners are going mad about the new ones. Serial owners are switching to other makes.I really don't want to sound old an bitter but i was a bit shocked how bad the whole setup in these VWs is. There are touch buttons for almost everything and it couldn't have annoyed me more. Changing the volume, setting the temp, even on the steering wheel everything was touch.
My thoughts while using it:
"How do i start the A/C?
Ah, there is a submenu.
Why is the On/Off button on the screen blue on blue? I pressed it, but nothing happend, did it recognize my finger? Ah no, i have to try again, now it works.
Ok, i want it a degree colder, i can do that with this touch button. Ok, nothing is happening, did i miss this button aswell? Ok, after 5 seconds it worked, just seems to be slow " and so on.
It is still beyond me what was wrong with a few buttons combined with a touchscreen for all the other stuff. I am prepared to drive a 30 year old car rather than an ergonomics disaster like this.
One point that hasn't come out in the comments yet... what about people who have solar + batteries at home? Running costs for this are practically zero. Ask yourself how much it will cost to run an ICE and maintain the engine side of the vehicle over, say, 3-4 years (I don't even know, what is the average lease period these days?).
The EV cost benefits far outweigh ICE. It's not even close if you set up your home in the most efficient way possible.
And I had to laugh at a previous post about a "distress purchase" in regards to battery. What would we call filling up an ICE? That too is a distress purchase; if you don't fill it, you don't go anywhere either... At least with an EV you will never have to go to a petrol station again, and can even get your "fuel" for free; with the right feed-in tariff, you might even get paid for the pleasure..
The EV cost benefits far outweigh ICE. It's not even close if you set up your home in the most efficient way possible.
And I had to laugh at a previous post about a "distress purchase" in regards to battery. What would we call filling up an ICE? That too is a distress purchase; if you don't fill it, you don't go anywhere either... At least with an EV you will never have to go to a petrol station again, and can even get your "fuel" for free; with the right feed-in tariff, you might even get paid for the pleasure..
Sheepshanks said:
Aren't all the latest VWs like that? Wife has a 5yr old Tiguan and reading the Tiguan forum owners are going mad about the new ones. Serial owners are switching to other makes.
I'm running a 2014 Skoda Superb and even at that age the touch screen is awful.TBH it's one of many, many things I dislike about newer cars. Back to the 00's for me.
Max_Torque said:
The bigotry around a car that is powered by electricity is frankly astonishing!
You yourself say your diesel does 44 miles per gallon.
Average uk cost of 1 gallon of diesel right now is (according to google) £5.07
60 miles @ 44 mpg is 1.36 gallons ie a cost of £6.91, shall we call it, ohh, £7 eh
So basically, filling your EV with the most expensive possible electricity is basically the same cost as you currently pay, and are persumably completely ok with, for your derv? (if you sign up to the subscription services for fast charging, or charge from home, the costs tumble. Over 5 years with our EV we averaged an equivalent of over 240 mpg in terms of energy costs.
But "EV's aren't cost effective" apparently?
Seriously, people on here would make a good attempt at arguing that blue was red if they could get some sort of slur in against an EV whilst doing it......
Cost effective is a moot point when a basic Enyak costs £33k rising upto £45k before options You yourself say your diesel does 44 miles per gallon.
Average uk cost of 1 gallon of diesel right now is (according to google) £5.07
60 miles @ 44 mpg is 1.36 gallons ie a cost of £6.91, shall we call it, ohh, £7 eh
So basically, filling your EV with the most expensive possible electricity is basically the same cost as you currently pay, and are persumably completely ok with, for your derv? (if you sign up to the subscription services for fast charging, or charge from home, the costs tumble. Over 5 years with our EV we averaged an equivalent of over 240 mpg in terms of energy costs.
But "EV's aren't cost effective" apparently?
Seriously, people on here would make a good attempt at arguing that blue was red if they could get some sort of slur in against an EV whilst doing it......
And that’s one of the cheapest EV’s
Last week I did 1100 miles through 4 countries in my diesel Satan mobile, which is fully paid for, it cost me around £110 and 10 minutes in total for fuelling
Ignoring the purchase cost of the vehicle then yes EV’s can be very cost effective, and work in certain situations very well, but I’d rather pay £10/100 miles and not be paying £xxx per month for the privilege of cheaper fuel
Horses for courses I suppose
The battery “deg” appears to be no where near what people are fearing I understand, if you leave the battery in the sweet spot of it’s capacity during most of its life. People who have owned fully electric cars for a good few years report negligible loss of battery capacity, and that is from early battery tech whereas the current tech has advanced substantially in the last 3 years, and continues to.
For most people a range of circa 300 miles is more than enough and once you get used to the likes of Zapmap, plus the fast food operators like McDonalds and Burger King installing super fast charging points (& many of the super markets), the availability of public charging points will improve significantly over the next couple of years. The Govt is implementing a strategy where all new houses will have to have charging points installed as part of the construction process.
I agree with a number of other posts that the review of the car has missed the point about the car itself....come on guys, please give a balanced view of the car.
For most people a range of circa 300 miles is more than enough and once you get used to the likes of Zapmap, plus the fast food operators like McDonalds and Burger King installing super fast charging points (& many of the super markets), the availability of public charging points will improve significantly over the next couple of years. The Govt is implementing a strategy where all new houses will have to have charging points installed as part of the construction process.
I agree with a number of other posts that the review of the car has missed the point about the car itself....come on guys, please give a balanced view of the car.
big_rob_sydney said:
One point that hasn't come out in the comments yet... what about people who have solar + batteries at home? Running costs for this are practically zero. Ask yourself how much it will cost to run an ICE and maintain the engine side of the vehicle over, say, 3-4 years (I don't even know, what is the average lease period these days?).
The EV cost benefits far outweigh ICE. It's not even close if you set up your home in the most efficient way possible.
And I had to laugh at a previous post about a "distress purchase" in regards to battery. What would we call filling up an ICE? That too is a distress purchase; if you don't fill it, you don't go anywhere either... At least with an EV you will never have to go to a petrol station again, and can even get your "fuel" for free; with the right feed-in tariff, you might even get paid for the pleasure..
Because the amount of power that you can generate at home is laughable compared to the capacity of the battery - it's going to take you a very long time to fill from empty using solar power - even if you live in Sydney...The EV cost benefits far outweigh ICE. It's not even close if you set up your home in the most efficient way possible.
And I had to laugh at a previous post about a "distress purchase" in regards to battery. What would we call filling up an ICE? That too is a distress purchase; if you don't fill it, you don't go anywhere either... At least with an EV you will never have to go to a petrol station again, and can even get your "fuel" for free; with the right feed-in tariff, you might even get paid for the pleasure..
Agree on the running costs bit - but there will still be things that fail (just a lot less as the car is less complex).
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