Modifying to be illegal?

[Jaguar steve]

bigothunter said:

But better control of the free-for-all boyo road market does make sense.

Absolutely.

The car community does itself no favours with anti-social addenda such as noisy exhausts, late night artificial pops 'n bangs and environmentally ruinous rolling coal or no poke without smoke diesel remaps.

If legislation is passed to prevent it then the blame will only lie in one place.

[Dog Star]

Jaguar steve said:

bigothunter said:

But better control of the free-for-all boyo road market does make sense.

Absolutely.

The car community does itself no favours with anti-social addenda such as noisy exhausts, late night artificial pops 'n bangs and environmentally ruinous rolling coal or no poke without smoke diesel remaps.

If legislation is passed to prevent it then the blame will only lie in one place.

Precisely my point! I'm a total petrolhead, love my cars and bikes, but no amount of "get back to Mumsnet" abuse gets around the fact that but these absolute weapons that you are describing are fking things up for everyone. It's like that yob kid at school who would get entire classes stuck in detention.

[bigothunter]

KTMsm said:

Explain how my wider wheels with positive offset have compromised the dynamics, they have improved them albeit at a inconsequential increase in leverage upon various parts - presumably you have accident stats to back up what a huge problem this is ?

Try googling scrub radius and the self-aligning characteristics of negative and positive wheel offset. These parameters are optimised during vehicle development only to be compromised by uninformed fiddlers, more interested in show rather than go.

[ChocolateFrog]

sheepman said:

To big of a market to just ban it.

Yep, it's worth billions in this country alone.

[KTMsm]

bigothunter said:

KTMsm said:

Explain how my wider wheels with positive offset have compromised the dynamics, they have improved them albeit at a inconsequential increase in leverage upon various parts - presumably you have accident stats to back up what a huge problem this is ?

Try googling scrub radius and the self-aligning characteristics of negative and positive wheel offset. These parameters are optimised during vehicle development only to be compromised by uninformed fiddlers, more interested in show rather than go.

Yes I'm aware of all that many in the MX5 community used to bang on about the specific 45mm offset and how aftermarket standard was 35 etc having experimented with 20+ MX5s and probably 50+ sets of wheels - it's bks

I agree lowering excessively and massive camber are silly but too many get into the mindset that OEM is best - no OEM is whoever could make the cheapest parts to the spec at the time, that has to work for all customers and in all areas - if can be improved upon

[BS62]

KTMsm said:

tomic said:

Agreed - needs to be applied retrospectively as well

PH needs a cull on membership

Agreed. I have been convinced for a while that PH has a large 5th Column of users who hate cars and petrolheads.

Dog Star said:

I’ll throw everyone under the bus if it gets rid of s with loud exhausts. Sorry - but that’s they way it is - blame the selfish modding “community”, be it dheads with crappy A3s, “screaming eagle” Harleys or sports bikes.

I’m not immune to this myself - I do own a 60th Anniversary R1 with an OE Akra. I’m very aware of who I might be disturbing though.

Of course you're not the problem, everyone else is.

[kambites]

bigothunter said:

kambites said:

I'd rather have 70 limits and be able to modify my cars.

Wow that's telling...

Yeah, it tells you that I get no enjoyment from driving fast in a straight line but am interested enough in cars to want to improve them.

[bigothunter]

KTMsm said:

Yes I'm aware of all that many in the MX5 community used to bang on about the specific 45mm offset and how aftermarket standard was 35 etc having experimented with 20+ MX5s and probably 50+ sets of wheels - it's bks

I agree lowering excessively and massive camber are silly but too many get into the mindset that OEM is best - no OEM is whoever could make the cheapest parts to the spec at the time, that has to work for all customers and in all areas - if can be improved upon

Doubt whether 10mm offset change is noticeable on the road especially with RWD (no torque steer). But may modifiers make much bigger offset changes and that starts to become dodgy.

However I was surprised how much difference 10mm spacers degraded turn-in steering feel on the track. This was at the adhesion limit going into Coram at Snetterton in a powerful RWD race car.

[Court_S]

Hmmmm. Wonder how far this will extend? There are loads of people who use things like Carly to permanently disengage stop start for example. I assume that they’d fall foul of this?

My car definitely would; Birds B1 suspension, M3 LCA’s etc plus various interior bits.

[kambites]

What about cars where you can't get OEM parts anymore?

[bigothunter]

kambites said:

What about cars where you can't get OEM parts anymore?

Simplified certification process for those aftermarket parts maybe?

[swanny71]

KTMsm said:

tomic said:

MercScot said:

Thank fk for that, no more Saxo's with dustbin exhausts either - bring it on!

Agreed - needs to be applied retrospectively as well

PH needs a cull on membership

[akirk]

Jaguar steve said:

bigothunter said:

But better control of the free-for-all boyo road market does make sense.

Absolutely.

The car community does itself no favours with anti-social addenda such as noisy exhausts, late night artificial pops 'n bangs and environmentally ruinous rolling coal or no poke without smoke diesel remaps.

If legislation is passed to prevent it then the blame will only lie in one place.

And we already have noise and emissions legislation which in theory stops that...
If the perpetrators of that anti-social behaviour ignore current legislation - exactly how effective do you anticipate the new legislation being?!

And these proposals are clearly not aimed at those people or that behaviour - it is aimed at legislation for a scenario where manufacturers and government have tracking systems in your car so that they know where it is / so that they can charge per mile / so that they can have black boxes presumably which will automatically give you points if you go over a set speed limit / etc. - that is the purpose, it is to remove control from the punter and give it to government / manufacturers who know better.

[kambites]

bigothunter said:

kambites said:

What about cars where you can't get OEM parts anymore?

Simplified certification process for those aftermarket parts maybe?

Having to certify every single pattern part would make a hell of a mess of the parts market! Imagine if every model of every brand of spark plug needed to be certified for every car it could potentially be put into. However simple you made it I doubt many parts would get certified for an awful lot of the rarer more "PH-worthy" cars out there.

And how far do you take it? Do you include Tyres? Engine Oils?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st October 11:37

[bigothunter]

kambites said:

bigothunter said:

kambites said:

What about cars where you can't get OEM parts anymore?

Simplified certification process for those aftermarket parts maybe?

Having to certify every single pattern part would make a hell of a mess of the parts market! Imagine if every model of every brand of spark plug needed to be certified for every car it could potentially be put into.

I've suffered failure of a critical aftermarket suspension component due to poor weld quality. Could have been lethal. Simple certification and conformity checks would alleviate similar safety problems.

[kambites]

bigothunter said:

I've suffered failure of a critical aftermarket suspension component due to poor weld quality. Could have been lethal. Simple certification and conformity checks would alleviate similar safety problems.

I've replaced some of my suspension components with stronger after-market ones in order to avoid a well known failure with the OEM parts. Keeping the original part could have been lethal...

[bigothunter]

kambites said:

Having to certify every single pattern part would make a hell of a mess of the parts market! Imagine if every model of every brand of spark plug needed to be certified for every car it could potentially be put into. However simple you made it I doubt many parts would get certified for an awful lot of the rarer more "PH-worthy" cars out there.

And how far do you take it? Do you include Tyres? Engine Oils?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st October 11:37

Tyres are critical to safety and engine oils to exhaust emissions, catalysts and DPFs, so yes

[swanny71]

bigothunter said:

I've suffered failure of a critical aftermarket suspension component due to poor weld quality. Could have been lethal. Simple certification and conformity checks would alleviate similar safety problems.

Was it a quality aftermarket part or cheap crap?
If it was a quality aftermarket part, then I’d imagine quality control checks had already been carried out and maybe you were just unlucky?
If it was cheap crap then you got what you paid for.

[bigothunter]

kambites said:

bigothunter said:

I've suffered failure of a critical aftermarket suspension component due to poor weld quality. Could have been lethal. Simple certification and conformity checks would alleviate similar safety problems.

I've replaced some of my suspension components with stronger after-market ones in order to avoid a well known failure with the OEM parts. Keeping the original part could have been lethal...

Aftermarket parts with specified manufacturing quality control?

[Digga]

akirk said:

And we already have noise and emissions legislation which in theory stops that...
If the perpetrators of that anti-social behaviour ignore current legislation - exactly how effective do you anticipate the new legislation being?!

And these proposals are clearly not aimed at those people or that behaviour - it is aimed at legislation for a scenario where manufacturers and government have tracking systems in your car so that they know where it is / so that they can charge per mile / so that they can have black boxes presumably which will automatically give you points if you go over a set speed limit / etc. - that is the purpose, it is to remove control from the punter and give it to government / manufacturers who know better.

^This.

Even blatant obvious stuff, like morons who tint out driver's side windows to blackout spec does not get detected or prosecuted. Who, in fact, is going to police this?

DVLA would do better to police moody MOT stations.