Manufacturer Stingieness

[Tony33]

Court_S said:

Tony33 said:

My BMW comes with auto headlamp dipping “preparation” as standard. What that means is you have to pay a subscription service to enable what has already been fitted. I guess it makes sense not having to manufacture different versions and simplifies the build process, just remotely enable it from a support centre. Still feels a bit mean, installing the hardware and disabling it through software to be unlocked!

It’s not a new concept. My old Octavia vRS came from the factory with various cameras / sensors fitted but nit enabled unless you paid for the option (eg speed limit sign recognition which I think was a £350 option). If you had / knew someone with VCDS it just needed switching on.

The savings in terms of standardising production lines obviously far outweighs the cost of the components for things like CarPlay, speed limit recognition etc.

I think the concept of "dealer fitted" options which were simply enabling what was wired into the car have been around for some while. New to me is the concept of the user activating options via subscription services. Cost effective and convenient as it is, activating existing features somehow feels less worthy than having it "installed" in a build process just for you! Maybe that is just me not being prepared to embrace the modern ways

[Monkeylegend]

Decky_Q said:

Real stinginess I found was with Alfa Romeo. The brera had a glass roof option, but it was cheaper to manufacture all the shells with a glass roof. If you didn't choose the glass option they covered it up with a full headling.

Why was it cheaper to cut a hole in the roof, fill it with a sunroof, then cover it with a headlining, as opposed to pressing out the roof as one piece and fitting a headlining?

[MattyD803]

Monkeylegend said:

Why was it cheaper to cut a hole in the roof, fill it with a sunroof, then cover it with a headlining, as opposed to pressing out the roof as one piece and fitting a headlining?

I am guessing a little here, but I don't think it would have been a traditional 'sunroof' so to speak (i.e. tilt openable with mechanism), more a fixed glass pano roof insert with an internal blind - perhaps that was the "default" option and certain models had this 'covered'.....hence probably not cheaper not to change the whole production run (or indeed the design or tooling) to allow for a reduced number of solid roof vehicles....the question for me would be why bother covering some though......just put a manual roll back in if not electric, don't just cover it up completely.

[Muddle238]

It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Given that it was standard kit on a 2008 Peugeot I had many years ago to have mirrors fold automatically when you locked the car, it seemed crazy that these so called "premium" branded cars wouldn't fold the mirrors when locked - and these were sub 3-year-old cars.

Combined with how fat cars are getting, it's rather frustrating when trying to walk between cars in a car park when the mirrors are left extended.

[Debrooker]

clockworks said:

If all these things were standard, they wouldn't cost £10k+. The manufacturer might still charge that much, but it can be done a lot cheaper.

I bought a Kia Picanto GT-Line S 2 years ago.
It came with:

Edited by clockworks on Tuesday 23 November 09:31

I've bought the wife the X-Line S and can't actually think of anything it doesn't come with - incredible value for money and very well screwed together too boot.

[Court_S]

Fastdruid said:

The one that annoyed me was the Mazda 6 MPS we used to have, it was only ever one "spec" but in other countries it got heated seats while in the UK we got no heated seats and a sunroof instead. Used the sunroof about 3 times ever while would have used the heated seats pretty much daily!

That’s bonkers. So what you end up with is probably a load of cars in warm climates with heated seats and somewhere like Uk with a glass roof.

Muddle238 said:

It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Given that it was standard kit on a 2008 Peugeot I had many years ago to have mirrors fold automatically when you locked the car, it seemed crazy that these so called "premium" branded cars wouldn't fold the mirrors when locked - and these were sub 3-year-old cars.

Combined with how fat cars are getting, it's rather frustrating when trying to walk between cars in a car park when the mirrors are left extended.

Part of that is how options are being packaged up as well. When I was speccing my M140i, folding mirrors were only available with other options, one of which was electric seats which were bloody expensive.

[SkodaIan]

Latest stinginess I've seen is VAG charging about £150 for "towbar preparation". There is some note underneath saying that if you don't select this, the VIN plate (and presumably also the V5) won't have any declared towing capacity so the car can never be legally fitted with a towbar.
Given it's "only" £150, I can't believe this preparation is much more than sticking a different VIN plate on. However for someone like me who normally buys nearly new and then fits a tow bar, it effectively forces me into buying brand new.

[waynecyclist]

SkodaIan said:

Latest stinginess I've seen is VAG charging about £150 for "towbar preparation". There is some note underneath saying that if you don't select this, the VIN plate (and presumably also the V5) won't have any declared towing capacity so the car can never be legally fitted with a towbar.
Given it's "only" £150, I can't believe this preparation is much more than sticking a different VIN plate on. However for someone like me who normally buys nearly new and then fits a tow bar, it effectively forces me into buying brand new.

I think that if that is the same as the Skoda set up, towbar preparation also includes the additional wiring from the fuse box to the rear so it is then plug and play, without it a lot of trim and carpet has to come out.

[BigBen]

MattyD803 said:

Decky_Q said:

Van's are built to be cheaply repaired and maintained when doing 50k a year, so halogen lights are pretty standard.

Real stinginess I found was with Alfa Romeo. The brera had a glass roof option, but it was cheaper to manufacture all the shells with a glass roof. If you didn't choose the glass option they covered it up with a full headling. Also cruise control was wired in and programmed to all versions but the lever to operate it was not fitted unless you paid for that option. So some owners cut roof linings and bought the buttons themselves.

That's a cracker, never knew that! Unbelievable.

Stanley knife, job jobbed?

Mercedes SLKs also have (had?) this, the roof was glass but covered with headlining unless otherwise upgraded

[Limpet]

After years of German stuff, the last being an M140i which didn't even offer adjustable lumbar support or a stereo better than a £99 Alba midi system from the 1986 Argos catalogue without requiring you to dig deep, going to a Hyundai has been a breath of fresh air in this respect.

I didn't spec the Hyundai new, but it didn't matter as the options list had two things on it. Paint colour (if you didn't want white), and whether you wanted to save a few kilos by ditching the electric heated seats for manual ones (at zero cost).

Everything the Germans bury in expensive packs comes as standard. High beam assist, cruise, front and rear PDC, an acceptable stereo system, folding mirrors, heated seats and wheel, adaptive suspension, privacy glass etc are included.

The new model has carried this tradition on, adding only a DCT gearbox option to the list.

Yes, there's an argument that you're not paying for stuff you don't want by having a big options list, but it's not as if a German car suddenly becomes great value if you abstain from the options list.

[Panamax]

Muddle238 said:

It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Combined with how fat cars are getting, it's rather frustrating when trying to walk between cars in a car park when the mirrors are left extended.

What a bizarre post.

Next week, French cars are too long when parked.

[MattyD803]

waynecyclist said:

SkodaIan said:

Latest stinginess I've seen is VAG charging about £150 for "towbar preparation". There is some note underneath saying that if you don't select this, the VIN plate (and presumably also the V5) won't have any declared towing capacity so the car can never be legally fitted with a towbar.
Given it's "only" £150, I can't believe this preparation is much more than sticking a different VIN plate on. However for someone like me who normally buys nearly new and then fits a tow bar, it effectively forces me into buying brand new.

I think that if that is the same as the Skoda set up, towbar preparation also includes the additional wiring from the fuse box to the rear so it is then plug and play, without it a lot of trim and carpet has to come out.

That was my understanding too (re: wiring)....however, if the VIN plate thing is for real, that's a very sad situation....but I am not completely convinced they can actually do that, as VIN plate or not, the vehicle as designed is still rated/capable/safe to tow xx Kg in any case, and I doubt that would stop people from fitting them or indeed falling foul of the law. In fact, I have seen the likes of GT and Watling towing selling kits for cars with and without factory preparation. (In some cases, tow bar prep is actually a £0.00 option on VAG products).

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

See also, every Porsche ever built... Their options list for a 911, for example, is scandalously bad.

I don't get this. I don't want all the same stuff on a car you do. People seem to think heated seats and electric folding wing mirrors and sunroofs and fvcking headlights that steer and OEM satnavs and god knows how much other BS are all essential. If you want stuff you pay for it. I don't see why because you want it I should have to pay for it on my car.

[Alex_225]

I don't think manufacturers being tight ar$es is anything new but it does surprise me on certain models what they lack as a base spec.

My S Class cost someone in the region of £65k with a few options on it but Xenons weren't the standard spec headlight in 2008. Yet my 2003 Clio 172 which was £15k new at the time did come with them!

[waynecyclist]

MattyD803 said:

waynecyclist said:

SkodaIan said:

Latest stinginess I've seen is VAG charging about £150 for "towbar preparation". There is some note underneath saying that if you don't select this, the VIN plate (and presumably also the V5) won't have any declared towing capacity so the car can never be legally fitted with a towbar.
Given it's "only" £150, I can't believe this preparation is much more than sticking a different VIN plate on. However for someone like me who normally buys nearly new and then fits a tow bar, it effectively forces me into buying brand new.

I think that if that is the same as the Skoda set up, towbar preparation also includes the additional wiring from the fuse box to the rear so it is then plug and play, without it a lot of trim and carpet has to come out.

That was my understanding too (re: wiring)....however, if the VIN plate thing is for real, that's a very sad situation....but I am not completely convinced they can actually do that, as VIN plate or not, the vehicle as designed is still rated/capable/safe to tow xx Kg in any case, and I doubt that would stop people from fitting them or indeed falling foul of the law. In fact, I have seen the likes of GT and Watling towing selling kits for cars with and without factory preparation. (In some cases, tow bar prep is actually a £0.00 option on VAG products).

It will depend, the VIN plate will be down to the homologation, some VAG group products are not designed for towing, on the Skoda Kodiaq with some engines you had to replace the cooling pack and radiator grill to suit towing and some could not be fitted with a tow bar full stop, fully respect some aftermarkets companies will fit however.

As I said officially some should not be fitted with a tow bar.

[Muddle238]

Panamax said:

Muddle238 said:

It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Combined with how fat cars are getting, it's rather frustrating when trying to walk between cars in a car park when the mirrors are left extended.

What a bizarre post.

Next week, French cars are too long when parked.

Post relevant to a particular large car park I used to walk through on my way into work. No provision for pedestrian walkways across the rows, so you just walk between vehicles. No biggie, unless the gaps are made tighter by cars with mirrors left extended. I would have expected BMW's and Audi's to have folding mirrors as standard, as the tech has been around for donkeys years, but for some reason they charge extra when the French include it as standard. Hence, the Germans are stingy. I couldn't give a damn about the length of French cars.

[DSLiverpool]

My 1982 Fiesta XR2 (mk1) had headrest pads as an option - fair enough.

It had a radio with one speaker in a rear side panel no cassette just a radio, when I upgraded to a Pioneer the speakers were upgraded but the passenger side was always a bit muffled, swapped the radio - same - swapped the speaker - same - then we realised a tape cover "blank" was on the inside of the side panel cutouts muffling the sound.

At least it had under bonnet soundproofing, my mate's Fiesta Supersport didn't have that!

[23.7]

My car doesn't get

Alloys
REW
Service book (it's in the back of the handbook instead)


I like that.

[Richard-390a0]

As a counter point When M-B changed the S-Class from the 220 to the 221 IIRC they removed 138 functions from the car as it was found customers weren't using / aware of them, so it's not always down to manufacturer but the end user.

[StRemy]

This is what you get for ca. 20k £ in a new Caddy Kombi



It was nice to drive a “fat” 2.0 TDI instead of a 1.5/1.6 so typical these days though.