RE: 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 GTX Max | PH Review

[TheDeuce]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The whole point is to improve the car in various ways. Most EV drivers are not eco warriors that have to 'suffer' an EV for the sake of their beliefs

If the point were to be as green as possible, then personal transport itself would largely be outlawed..

Hence, you can have a very sporty EV such as the Taycan and over its life it will be greener than a 911 of equivalent performance - but clearly not as green as it could be if green credentials were treated as an outright priority.

Fitting 4wd isn't a waste of anything. It improves safety and tyre wear with virtually no increase in build costs or complexity, energy usage or range. It would be different on an ICE where an additional shaft and mechanical diff were required which add weight and running friction along with material costs.

I think you're looking at the EV debate from a pov of it being all about being green. In reality, that's just part of the attraction. For most buyers I suspect, a 'nice to have' but in reality they want the power, convenience, smoothness and refinement of EV. Obviously there will be some eco-maniac crazy beards too... They probably don't frequent PH in great numbers though.

[Nickbrapp]

SDK said:

You can’t stop for 30mins for a break and charge?
I’m also interested what you do which needs so much driving in a car? (Gen question)

It’s not that I can’t stop it’s more that I think it will becoming annoying and boring when I just want to get home


Currently I’m a life safety systems engineer and cover the whole of South Wales and up to swindon and down to Taunton, across to Salisbury so a massive area in a diesel van

New job is a supervisor for another part of the same company and the area is the same and Birmingham.

[Nickbrapp]

SDK said:

You can’t stop for 30mins for a break and charge?
I’m also interested what you do which needs so much driving in a car? (Gen question)

It’s not that I can’t stop it’s more that I think it will becoming annoying and boring when I just want to get home


Currently I’m a life safety systems engineer and cover the whole of South Wales and up to swindon and down to Taunton, across to Salisbury so a massive area in a diesel van

New job is a supervisor for another part of the same company and the area is the same and Birmingham.

It won’t be too bad finding a charger in the English parts but South Wales after Swansea is rural and they are rare. Don’t even think they’ve got them in Tesco there uet

[TheDeuce]

Nickbrapp said:

SDK said:

You can’t stop for 30mins for a break and charge?
I’m also interested what you do which needs so much driving in a car? (Gen question)

It’s not that I can’t stop it’s more that I think it will becoming annoying and boring when I just want to get home


Currently I’m a life safety systems engineer and cover the whole of South Wales and up to swindon and down to Taunton, across to Salisbury so a massive area in a diesel van

New job is a supervisor for another part of the same company and the area is the same and Birmingham.

It won’t be too bad finding a charger in the English parts but South Wales after Swansea is rural and they are rare. Don’t even think they’ve got them in Tesco there uet

I love EV and for 95% of people looking for a new car, I think they can make sense. But you're in the other 5% and I'd recommend you stick to ICE unless you can encourage your employer to see reason. It's a little daft they offer you an electric car which clearly can't manage the range your job role requires - yet won't allow you get a very similarly priced EV that could work just fine.

Think of the savings they would make in fuel too! I assume there isn't an option for you to contribute to the car yourself?

Also... if you bought/leased the car privately would they pay you mileage?

[Cheggers]

Like Harris said, buying one of these german EV's at the moment is like buying a laptop in the 90's.
The range looks pitiful, it's as heavy as a tank, and even though the carbon offset of making one of these things is dubious, everyone that buys one of these things is getting us one tiny billionth of a step closer to urban dwellers not dying of lung cancer from walking to the shops and the planet avoiding life ending climate change. In that perspective, not a bad job VW*

(Awaits VW in scandalous WLTP range fraud 10 years from now (Sorry VW, you ain't gonna live that one down for a while)

[_ppan]

Wow. I see absolutely no reason to buy this over an EV6 of Ionic 5. No, I wouldn't buy a Tesla with dogs dinner build quality and even worse customer service.

Cheggers said:

and even though the carbon offset of making one of these things is dubious, everyone that buys one of these things is getting us one tiny billionth of a step closer to urban dwellers not dying of lung cancer from walking to the shops and the planet avoiding life ending climate change. In that perspective, not a bad job VW*

Those same tiny billionth of steps have caused massive pollution. So if we can cause massive pollution with all those tiny billionth steps, we can also go the other way around. Apathy never helped anyone.

Interesting article about carbon and electric cars: https://thecorrespondent.com/7056/why-electric-car...

[davidc1]

John writes so well. I am saddened we are going down this route with v heavy cars . Is this really the best we can do with the knowledge we have. Madness.

[mrclav]

TheDeuce said:

What sort of car are you actually looking for?

I my case, one that I can actually drive off the forecourt - I enquired about both an RS E-tron GT and a Taycan but the delivery dates are simply unacceptable, though understandable given the current situation.

[_ppan]

davidc1 said:

John writes so well. I am saddened we are going down this route with v heavy cars . Is this really the best we can do with the knowledge we have. Madness.

No this is not the best we can do. The first products with solid state batteries are being produced. If these will be produced in bigger form we can save half the weight on batteries alone (plus they use less toxic materials and aren't so fire hazardous as li-ion). Then there is the matter of an emerging market. I want an electric car and I want a wagon. Thus I am f00ked. Because it's a very young market only the most popular chassis types are available in electric form. But this will change. As will other tech that can make the cars lighter. So in terms of electric cars and weight things will get better I think. On the other hand there is a general tendency for all cars (ICE included) to get heavier. Sports saloons are heading toward 2 tons...So maybe lighter cars will be a market on it's own in the future if cars still get heavier and more demand for lighter cars will start to arise.

Edited by _ppan on Sunday 28th November 10:14

[patmahe]

Waiting for someone to build the first genuinely interesting and crucially affordable electric car, everything is either dull or out of reach. I guess they'll get to the middle ground eventually but this isn't it. Getting closer though.

[ajap1979]

patmahe said:

Waiting for someone to build the first genuinely interesting and crucially affordable electric car, everything is either dull or out of reach. I guess they'll get to the middle ground eventually but this isn't it. Getting closer though.

Define affordable… I think the BMW i3 is genuinely interesting, and I can afford one…

[TheDeuce]

mrclav said:

TheDeuce said:

What sort of car are you actually looking for?

I my case, one that I can actually drive off the forecourt - I enquired about both an RS E-tron GT and a Taycan but the delivery dates are simply unacceptable, though understandable given the current situation.

That's tough indeed. I would say leasing will be quicker than buying for new EV's as they come to market - cheaper too. Sign up to the mailing lists of the big leasing companies and when new EV's are launched, they're typically initially discounted to the lease companies with guaranteed stock to get the cars on the road. Increasingly, 'buying' a car puts the customer at a disadvantage. I'm not a fan of that fact, but it is the way the industry seems to be headed.

[CDP]

Cheggers said:

Like Harris said, buying one of these german EV's at the moment is like buying a laptop in the 90's.
The range looks pitiful, it's as heavy as a tank, and even though the carbon offset of making one of these things is dubious, everyone that buys one of these things is getting us one tiny billionth of a step closer to urban dwellers not dying of lung cancer from walking to the shops and the planet avoiding life ending climate change. In that perspective, not a bad job VW*

(Awaits VW in scandalous WLTP range fraud 10 years from now (Sorry VW, you ain't gonna live that one down for a while)

Over 10 years an ID3 will easily save me its purchase price in fuel. Combine with the fact my car is coming up for replacement anyway (179,000 miles) and as a daily driver it makes a lot of sense. Yes I could get an economical diesel which would split the difference but they aren't cheap either and aren't as nice to drive.

The used EV market hasn't developed to the point where the saving of second hand is worthwhile.

[rosino]

why on earth do you keep comparing it to the Model 3 and not the Model Y which is imminent ?

That's the comparison you should be making in terms of space/practicality/performance/range/price. Model 3 is completely different proposition.

Model Y will change everything in the segment. Not that am a big Tesla fan, and I would not buy one in the short term as i prefer the iX3 (mostly for the luxury feeling and driver engagement) but for generic brand / appliance styling and practicality it annhilates the iD.4.

Really surprised VW could not do better than this with their alleged re-boot.

[TheDeuce]

rosino said:

why on earth do you keep comparing it to the Model 3 and not the Model Y which is imminent ?

That's the comparison you should be making in terms of space/practicality/performance/range/price. Model 3 is completely different proposition.

Model Y will change everything in the segment. Not that am a big Tesla fan, and I would not buy one in the short term as i prefer the iX3 (mostly for the luxury feeling and driver engagement) but for generic brand / appliance styling and practicality it annhilates the iD.4.

Really surprised VW could not do better than this with their alleged re-boot.

I don't think it actually matters what it's compared to in terms of whether or not the ID4 is as good as it should/could be.

Whatever the class/shape of other EV's we could point to, they virtually all (at the same price point) out-compete the ID4 in several ways. It's simply not a good car and I don't really understand why VW have ended up with such an underwhelming product.

[Mouse Rat]

TheDeuce said:

Mouse Rat said:

I'm looking for an EV now.
My criteria is, would I buy it if it had the equivalently power ICE engine in.

The answer is no. Apart from the Etron GT and Ioniq they are all weird or blobs. This VW has no appeal other than the power train.

What sort of car are you actually looking for?

Ideally something like an XF, A5, A6, 4 series ie nice looking 4 door or coupe. I love the E Tron GT, Taycan and Model S as they look great, but I cant justify spending that much. The Hyundai and BMW i4 are on the right track. But the Hyundai is too small and the BMW tarnished by that hideous front end.
I'm squinting looking at the Polestar.

[Nickbrapp]

Mouse Rat said:

Ideally something like an XF, A5, A6, 4 series ie nice looking 4 door or coupe. I love the E Tron GT, Taycan and Model S as they look great, but I cant justify spending that much. The Hyundai and BMW i4 are on the right track. But the Hyundai is too small and the BMW tarnished by that hideous front end.
I'm squinting looking at the Polestar.

Order a EQE

[Mouse Rat]

Nickbrapp said:

Mouse Rat said:

Ideally something like an XF, A5, A6, 4 series ie nice looking 4 door or coupe. I love the E Tron GT, Taycan and Model S as they look great, but I cant justify spending that much. The Hyundai and BMW i4 are on the right track. But the Hyundai is too small and the BMW tarnished by that hideous front end.
I'm squinting looking at the Polestar.

Order a EQE

Just googled that. Nice. Got the old Peugeot 407 vibe going on

[ajap1979]

TheDeuce said:

rosino said:

why on earth do you keep comparing it to the Model 3 and not the Model Y which is imminent ?

That's the comparison you should be making in terms of space/practicality/performance/range/price. Model 3 is completely different proposition.

Model Y will change everything in the segment. Not that am a big Tesla fan, and I would not buy one in the short term as i prefer the iX3 (mostly for the luxury feeling and driver engagement) but for generic brand / appliance styling and practicality it annhilates the iD.4.

Really surprised VW could not do better than this with their alleged re-boot.

I don't think it actually matters what it's compared to in terms of whether or not the ID4 is as good as it should/could be.

Whatever the class/shape of other EV's we could point to, they virtually all (at the same price point) out-compete the ID4 in several ways. It's simply not a good car and I don't really understand why VW have ended up with such an underwhelming product.

I honestly think you're being massively unfair on it. Maybe the GTX doesn't stack up because of it's price, but the other models are worthy of consideration, along with the Enyaq and Q4 E-Tron (which are basically the same car). I was watching a head-to-head against the EV6 earlier and there was very little in it, in fact the efficiency of both was identical. Your dislike of it does seem irrational IMO.

[StRemy]

Back in the day VW used to insist in this concept of “Anmutung” or attention to detail and up to the Golf 7.5 you could feel that they were trying to do things in a neat and logical way, at least on the surface.

Now you step in a VW and find completely illogical things in the infotainment, HVAC or lights controls that would have never been greenlighted through development in the past.

It’s like if they stopped doing things the “German way” and now compete with the likes of Peugeot at being unintuitive to use.