RE: 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 GTX Max | PH Review

[Skyrocket21]

I don't believe this was mentioned, but in the small print it says; " * The maximum electric power determined in accordance with UN-GTR.21 for this vehicle is 220kW and lasts for a maximum of 30 seconds." From here: https://www.vwpress.co.uk/en-gb/releases/4569 and written under the price listing box.

So you get 30 seconds of fun with the dual motors and then it switches to the rear electric motor and so the same as the standard ID.4, is it the same limited 30 seconds of maximum power on the Audi Q4 e-tron too?

[aelord]

Unbuyable crap. Obsolete before it hits the streets.

[Toltec]

Skyrocket21 said:

I don't believe this was mentioned, but in the small print it says; " * The maximum electric power determined in accordance with UN-GTR.21 for this vehicle is 220kW and lasts for a maximum of 30 seconds." From here: https://www.vwpress.co.uk/en-gb/releases/4569 and written under the price listing box.

So you get 30 seconds of fun with the dual motors and then it switches to the rear electric motor and so the same as the standard ID.4, is it the same limited 30 seconds of maximum power on the Audi Q4 e-tron too?

That is likely 30 seconds continuous, what is more important is the duty cycle.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

cerb4.5lee said:

Yes and I agree with you completely Martyn.

In many ways this just isn't a PH car I reckon, and there are so many better ways of doing it for the money as you mention. I guess that it will keep someone happy though, and we all look for different things with cars.

It certainly isn't my cup of tea though for sure. If I walked onto the drive and saw this on it every morning...I'd want to shoot myself to be honest!

Heheh, and I make the comment above as someone who did own a hateful diesel VW Tiguan as a daily for 5 months and realised immediately I’d made a horrific mistake, the only reason I kept it as long as I did was the need to earn sufficient brownie points with Mrs MilkyBarKid to get shut of it so quickly. Every day I owned that car I felt a piece of my soul dying. If I had lobotomy and actually ended up owning a blob like this that feeling would be even more so knowing I could have had a used 911, Evora 400, or upgraded my F-type V6S to a V8R for the same money…seriously I would question the point of carrying on living

Edited by TheMilkyBarKid on Friday 26th November 21:00

Edited by TheMilkyBarKid on Friday 26th November 21:03

[TheDeuce]

Panamax said:

Mr E said:

Roy m said:

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises?

Yes

That's the bottom line with these things. IMO Mr and Mrs average shouldn't be fooled by seeing these vehicles on the road and thinking "I'd like one". Without the huge government/HMRC subsidies they're hard to justify.

That's not correct at all. Yes, the subsidies (tax relief) are significant which makes it a no brainer to have a very expensive EV for business owners vs a moderately expensive 'any other' car. But at the other end of the market, small daily driver EV's are easily cheaper to buy/lease and run than their ICE equivalents at this stage.

[Nik Gnashers]

Pistonheads .. charging times matter.

Oh how times have changed.

[TheDeuce]

Nik Gnashers said:

Pistonheads .. charging times matter.

Oh how times have changed.

Been meaning to ask... What exactly were pistons

[Nickbrapp]

I just can’t see the point in sporty models of electric cars

With petrol cars they use sporty and fast ones to push the boundaries of what is possible in terms of power and acceleration you can get from a engine

I get that people like that, but In electric cars it just doesn’t work, they are all quick off the mark which is what people like, it’s the same reason diesels where so popular, turbo shove makes it feel fast.

I can’t help think that if VW spent the effort in producing a car which had a better range and marketed that for the same money that it would be more popular,


55k for a car with a range in the rear world of 250ish miles is just crap. If they invested the money to give it 350 miles with more batteries or better tech, that would sway more people.

I am so on the cusp of electric car ownership, there’s a ID3 on my company car list that I’m desperate to go for, but it’s only got a 262 range and real world that’s 215 or 180 in winter and that’s after you’ve adjusted your driving style to suit driving at 65, with no air con and it’s just too many compromises for
Me, meaning I would have to stop at least twice on a typical day that I don’t stop either way (100 miles each way ish) if they offered a 350 mile range with real world of 290 that would be perfect for me to be able to continue to drive in the style that I do.

It’s a shame as I am a big fan of electric cars but I know when I’m sitting in a rainy services on a Friday night just wanting to be home, just to get the extra 50 miles of range il be cursing that I just didn’t stick with diesel.


Shame I’m not a high enough grade to be allowed a Tesla

[TheDeuce]

Nickbrapp said:

I just can’t see the point in sporty models of electric cars

With petrol cars they use sporty and fast ones to push the boundaries of what is possible in terms of power and acceleration you can get from a engine

I get that people like that, but In electric cars it just doesn’t work, they are all quick off the mark which is what people like, it’s the same reason diesels where so popular, turbo shove makes it feel fast.

I can’t help think that if VW spent the effort in producing a car which had a better range and marketed that for the same money that it would be more popular,


55k for a car with a range in the rear world of 250ish miles is just crap. If they invested the money to give it 350 miles with more batteries or better tech, that would sway more people.

I am so on the cusp of electric car ownership, there’s a ID3 on my company car list that I’m desperate to go for, but it’s only got a 262 range and real world that’s 215 or 180 in winter and that’s after you’ve adjusted your driving style to suit driving at 65, with no air con and it’s just too many compromises for
Me, meaning I would have to stop at least twice on a typical day that I don’t stop either way (100 miles each way ish) if they offered a 350 mile range with real world of 290 that would be perfect for me to be able to continue to drive in the style that I do.

It’s a shame as I am a big fan of electric cars but I know when I’m sitting in a rainy services on a Friday night just wanting to be home, just to get the extra 50 miles of range il be cursing that I just didn’t stick with diesel.


Shame I’m not a high enough grade to be allowed a Tesla

I don't think you ever concluded why you don't see the point in sporty electric cars... The diesel/turbo torque comparison doesn't really apply because ev torque suffers no lag and the power curve is broad and flat. It feels totally different to forced induction ICE.

It's actually a great basis for a sporty car is it not? And the weight of the power source and train is all either on or under the axle centres. Even boxer engined cars have struggled to keep the heavy bits quite so low down.

To your point about range Vs power, there is virtually no trade off in EV terms. To up the range of this car, they need more batteries period. No fettling with power output will have a significant effect.

I'm a massive fan/convert of EV, but.. given you routine mileage (which is insane by the way..) you definitely need an EV with higher range! And if that's not an option, you're a totally valid example of someone who should stay with ICE for now. Perhaps look at hybrids too - although the savings are not that great and personally if I can't go full EV I think I'd prefer to stay full ICE.

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 26th November 23:00

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 26th November 23:07

[crosseyedlion]

TheDeuce said:

Panamax said:

Mr E said:

Roy m said:

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises?

Yes

That's the bottom line with these things. IMO Mr and Mrs average shouldn't be fooled by seeing these vehicles on the road and thinking "I'd like one". Without the huge government/HMRC subsidies they're hard to justify.

That's not correct at all. Yes, the subsidies (tax relief) are significant which makes it a no brainer to have a very expensive EV for business owners vs a moderately expensive 'any other' car. But at the other end of the market, small daily driver EV's are easily cheaper to buy/lease and run than their ICE equivalents at this stage.

Lease prices made favourable by residuals driven by the tax paying public subsidising EV drivers by providing tax breaks.

Eventually the gaping hole in the public purse created by this weird EV cultism will need plugging. There will be no favourable tax treatment when most drivers have EVs. That goes for charging/use too.

I'm sticking to my 13 year old 3.2 petrol manual. 30-42mpg. Faster 0-60 than this blob of a 'sporty' id4 and actually quite enjoyable every day.

Cars are expensive, I don't see the point of spending so much on something that doesn't stir the soul even slightly.

[TheDeuce]

crosseyedlion said:

Lease prices made favourable by residuals driven by the tax paying public subsidising EV drivers by providing tax breaks.

Eventually the gaping hole in the public purse created by this weird EV cultism will need plugging. There will be no favourable tax treatment when most drivers have EVs. That goes for charging/use too.

I'm sticking to my 13 year old 3.2 petrol manual. 30-42mpg. Faster 0-60 than this blob of a 'sporty' id4 and actually quite enjoyable every day.

Cars are expensive, I don't see the point of spending so much on something that doesn't stir the soul even slightly.

That's all back to front. The lease deals are subsidised by the manufacturers. It's BIK that is reduced by the government, which is why an expensive EV is cheap as chips for a business owner. Residual values are totally unaffected - there is no subsidy or tax break in relation to used EV's. The entire basis of you're argument has no bearing on reality. There's no gaping hole that will require plugging either - it's simply a motivator to get EV's on the road ASAP and it will be withdrawn as and when. The cars, will be worth whatever they're worth after that point, and the fact they were made initially more affordable as new in some instances, will not matter at all.

You stick to your old car if that makes you happy and fits with your resources - I would never suggest otherwise. As for stirring the soul... I love petrol, give me an N/A straight six any day and I'll be very happy. I also find soul in the early and varied attempts at bringing the first mainstream EV's to market. Many are soulless, some are so experimental and hopeless that it's hard not to find some soul in them. All things with souls must be flawed, after all.

I wouldn't go on too much about the 0-60 of your car in EV circles though. You have the particularly disappointing ID4 GTX beaten perhaps, but most equivalent cost EV's would easily beat you to 60, if that's your preferred measure of what makes a car desirable.

[sege]

GTX Max huh? A name that's nearly as cool sounding as my shaving razor and has "sportiness" on the listed features! Maybe something to replace my Q7 with!

[TheDeuce]

sege said:

GTX Max huh? A name that's nearly as cool sounding as my shaving razor and has "sportiness" on the listed features! Maybe something to replace my Q7 with!

I think once they've added "GTX" and sporty trims to a slow EV you know it's already not going well. The fact they then add a "Max" trim with everything they have to offer thrown at the car doesn't help.

All said and done, you're going to look a bit of a tit when you explain to your mates you just spent £55,000 pounds on something called a "GTX MAX" that isn't as fast as a far cheaper Golf. I love EV and tech and forward thinking... But slapping a daft badge on an underwhelming car to give it faux performance aspirations is not at all EV or forward thinking, it's a trick I thought had been rightfully killed off in the late 90's when people got 'an internet' and were able to dissect such bullst.

[SDK]

greggy50 said:

I don't see the range/performance as an issue as it plenty for a daily driver. I run a Polestar 2 which is similar to a Model 3 LR performance wise and its too much for the road most of the time to be honest...

The biggest issue for the ID4 is the interior as it isn't that good quality wise and the infotainment is st so its a poor all rounder for the cash. At least with the Model Y it has good range and is quick to make up for the fact the interior is still lacking for the price.

As I have said a couple of times Q4 E-Tron makes more sense as the interior is better and actually has dedicated buttons for the climate control etc. whilst being the more attractive car and having a "premium" badge whilst effectively costing no more. A 300bhp S Line is £3k less than this GTX Max an an Edition 1 which is loaded is £2k more tops.

I would take an EV6 over all of the above however.

Great post !!

[SDK]

Nickbrapp said:

I just can’t see the point in sporty models of electric cars

With petrol cars they use sporty and fast ones to push the boundaries of what is possible in terms of power and acceleration you can get from a engine

I get that people like that, but In electric cars it just doesn’t work, they are all quick off the mark which is what people like, it’s the same reason diesels where so popular, turbo shove makes it feel fast.

I can’t help think that if VW spent the effort in producing a car which had a better range and marketed that for the same money that it would be more popular,


55k for a car with a range in the rear world of 250ish miles is just crap. If they invested the money to give it 350 miles with more batteries or better tech, that would sway more people.

I am so on the cusp of electric car ownership, there’s a ID3 on my company car list that I’m desperate to go for, but it’s only got a 262 range and real world that’s 215 or 180 in winter and that’s after you’ve adjusted your driving style to suit driving at 65, with no air con and it’s just too many compromises for
Me, meaning I would have to stop at least twice on a typical day that I don’t stop either way (100 miles each way ish) if they offered a 350 mile range with real world of 290 that would be perfect for me to be able to continue to drive in the style that I do.

It’s a shame as I am a big fan of electric cars but I know when I’m sitting in a rainy services on a Friday night just wanting to be home, just to get the extra 50 miles of range il be cursing that I just didn’t stick with diesel.


Shame I’m not a high enough grade to be allowed a Tesla

How many miles are you daily driving?

For the majority 230-260 miles range is enough. Also, you need to think about real world use. There aren’t many people driving 200 miles in one trip without wanting to stop for a break. When you do stop you’ll be adding 180-200 miles back in about 30 minutes.

If car makers made the battery larger for that extra range you requested then the cost and weight goes up.

[Mouse Rat]

I'm looking for an EV now.
My criteria is, would I buy it if it had the equivalently power ICE engine in.

The answer is no. Apart from the Etron GT and Ioniq they are all weird or blobs. This VW has no appeal other than the power train.

[Nickbrapp]

SDK said:

How many miles are you daily driving?

For the majority 230-260 miles range is enough. Also, you need to think about real world use. There aren’t many people driving 200 miles in one trip without wanting to stop for a break. When you do stop you’ll be adding 180-200 miles back in about 30 minutes.

If car makers made the battery larger for that extra range you requested then the cost and weight goes up.

I live just past Bristol in wales and cover and area daily up to Birmingham and down to Taunton.

The birimingham trip is 99 miles door to door, so about 180 round trip. Fine in summer for the ID3 on the list, but come winter it’s going to be right on the limit and that’s before factoring in lights and wipers or driving at 80. I will stop usually once on that trip but the services on the route are still under chargered.

A polestar or model 3 would do this perfectly but sadly I’m not high enough grading to get those (they save them for managers who never drive anywhere)

[TheDeuce]

Mouse Rat said:

I'm looking for an EV now.
My criteria is, would I buy it if it had the equivalently power ICE engine in.

The answer is no. Apart from the Etron GT and Ioniq they are all weird or blobs. This VW has no appeal other than the power train.

What sort of car are you actually looking for?

[SDK]

Nickbrapp said:

I live just past Bristol in wales and cover and area daily up to Birmingham and down to Taunton.

The birimingham trip is 99 miles door to door, so about 180 round trip. Fine in summer for the ID3 on the list, but come winter it’s going to be right on the limit and that’s before factoring in lights and wipers or driving at 80. I will stop usually once on that trip but the services on the route are still under chargered.

A polestar or model 3 would do this perfectly but sadly I’m not high enough grading to get those (they save them for managers who never drive anywhere)

You can’t stop for 30mins for a break and charge?
I’m also interested what you do which needs so much driving in a car? (Gen question)

[RichardDastardly]

TheMilkyBarKid said:

This has all the desirability of the Ssangyong Rhodius. Ghastly

Completely agree. This looks like one ugly characterless car.