Large capacity engines. Very sought after or hot potato?
Discussion
My two pence
I'm 37 with my misses being 33, I have quite a few friends around 35 mark. I'm of an age when cars are of interest but there has been a lot of hammering us in cost for car insurance, flue cost and even more so for houses. Most of us haven't been able to afford to by and run expensive cars even if we have lusted after them from playing Grand Turismo. My older friends were able to get a slice of that action before parenthood took over. Anything that did drop in price to a reasonable (but still out of reach for me 10 years ago due to trying to get on the housing market) has gone up in valve due to them no being made anymore and the amount being written off. I'd love an Z4M but realistically a Z3 3.0 is all I could afford to buy and run (which frustrates me as I know between me and the misses we earning a very descent wage compared to most).
I'd also say that the move over to 4 cylinder turbo engines has changed things for a lot people, being able to afford 300bhp in a hot hatch with the ability to make it to 400bhp with only a few mods (map, exhaust, filter) really makes big engine NA car obsolete. I think most younger people than me would be very happy with such cars (in a top trump my car is quicker sort of way) - just look at how many Youtubers are showing off 500 to 1000bhp car for runway pulls and not country lane driving.
I picked up a mk2 tt 3.2vr6 a few month back (wanted something NA large capacity but sensible for the 90% driving the misses will do and the 10% weekend fun). I don't think can be counted as one of the great but it was a lot cheaper than trying to get a similar aged golf R32. I don't think it will go back up in valve in the same way as the R32 and I think it will be my only experience of large capacity engine. I think price will go up and down depending on which car it is, anything not an enthusiast car will end up being scrapped. Electric cars will end up taking over and the tax will come in in one way or another (higher electrically bills or trackers for pay as you drive (if they car put speed limiters in the cars I'm sure this car be done) so you pay at peak times and not just distance))
I'm 37 with my misses being 33, I have quite a few friends around 35 mark. I'm of an age when cars are of interest but there has been a lot of hammering us in cost for car insurance, flue cost and even more so for houses. Most of us haven't been able to afford to by and run expensive cars even if we have lusted after them from playing Grand Turismo. My older friends were able to get a slice of that action before parenthood took over. Anything that did drop in price to a reasonable (but still out of reach for me 10 years ago due to trying to get on the housing market) has gone up in valve due to them no being made anymore and the amount being written off. I'd love an Z4M but realistically a Z3 3.0 is all I could afford to buy and run (which frustrates me as I know between me and the misses we earning a very descent wage compared to most).
I'd also say that the move over to 4 cylinder turbo engines has changed things for a lot people, being able to afford 300bhp in a hot hatch with the ability to make it to 400bhp with only a few mods (map, exhaust, filter) really makes big engine NA car obsolete. I think most younger people than me would be very happy with such cars (in a top trump my car is quicker sort of way) - just look at how many Youtubers are showing off 500 to 1000bhp car for runway pulls and not country lane driving.
I picked up a mk2 tt 3.2vr6 a few month back (wanted something NA large capacity but sensible for the 90% driving the misses will do and the 10% weekend fun). I don't think can be counted as one of the great but it was a lot cheaper than trying to get a similar aged golf R32. I don't think it will go back up in valve in the same way as the R32 and I think it will be my only experience of large capacity engine. I think price will go up and down depending on which car it is, anything not an enthusiast car will end up being scrapped. Electric cars will end up taking over and the tax will come in in one way or another (higher electrically bills or trackers for pay as you drive (if they car put speed limiters in the cars I'm sure this car be done) so you pay at peak times and not just distance))
Brooksay said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
It'll be taxed to buggery though.
Agree with this. I only have a 3.7 litre V6 in the 370Z, and that already costs 630 a year to tax. 
k me! 15 a week without even starting the engine! KTMsm said:
Lil_Red_GTV said:
A silent Elise could be fun
In what way would a quieter car be more fun ?The main reason I like V8s is the noise they make - a V8 Elise, now that would be fun !
mattvanders said:
My two pence
I'm 37 with my misses being 33, I have quite a few friends around 35 mark. I'm of an age when cars are of interest but there has been a lot of hammering us in cost for car insurance, flue cost and even more so for houses. Most of us haven't been able to afford to by and run expensive cars even if we have lusted after them from playing Grand Turismo. My older friends were able to get a slice of that action before parenthood took over. Anything that did drop in price to a reasonable (but still out of reach for me 10 years ago due to trying to get on the housing market) has gone up in valve due to them no being made anymore and the amount being written off. I'd love an Z4M but realistically a Z3 3.0 is all I could afford to buy and run (which frustrates me as I know between me and the misses we earning a very descent wage compared to most).
I'd also say that the move over to 4 cylinder turbo engines has changed things for a lot people, being able to afford 300bhp in a hot hatch with the ability to make it to 400bhp with only a few mods (map, exhaust, filter) really makes big engine NA car obsolete. I think most younger people than me would be very happy with such cars (in a top trump my car is quicker sort of way) - just look at how many Youtubers are showing off 500 to 1000bhp car for runway pulls and not country lane driving.
I picked up a mk2 tt 3.2vr6 a few month back (wanted something NA large capacity but sensible for the 90% driving the misses will do and the 10% weekend fun). I don't think can be counted as one of the great but it was a lot cheaper than trying to get a similar aged golf R32. I don't think it will go back up in valve in the same way as the R32 and I think it will be my only experience of large capacity engine. I think price will go up and down depending on which car it is, anything not an enthusiast car will end up being scrapped. Electric cars will end up taking over and the tax will come in in one way or another (higher electrically bills or trackers for pay as you drive (if they car put speed limiters in the cars I'm sure this car be done) so you pay at peak times and not just distance))
I'm also 37. I've had no issue buying houses in the Cotswolds. Or insuring any vehicle. It's the generation who are 27 that are struggling, you should have mopped up from the boomer scraps. They have been there for the taking. I'm 37 with my misses being 33, I have quite a few friends around 35 mark. I'm of an age when cars are of interest but there has been a lot of hammering us in cost for car insurance, flue cost and even more so for houses. Most of us haven't been able to afford to by and run expensive cars even if we have lusted after them from playing Grand Turismo. My older friends were able to get a slice of that action before parenthood took over. Anything that did drop in price to a reasonable (but still out of reach for me 10 years ago due to trying to get on the housing market) has gone up in valve due to them no being made anymore and the amount being written off. I'd love an Z4M but realistically a Z3 3.0 is all I could afford to buy and run (which frustrates me as I know between me and the misses we earning a very descent wage compared to most).
I'd also say that the move over to 4 cylinder turbo engines has changed things for a lot people, being able to afford 300bhp in a hot hatch with the ability to make it to 400bhp with only a few mods (map, exhaust, filter) really makes big engine NA car obsolete. I think most younger people than me would be very happy with such cars (in a top trump my car is quicker sort of way) - just look at how many Youtubers are showing off 500 to 1000bhp car for runway pulls and not country lane driving.
I picked up a mk2 tt 3.2vr6 a few month back (wanted something NA large capacity but sensible for the 90% driving the misses will do and the 10% weekend fun). I don't think can be counted as one of the great but it was a lot cheaper than trying to get a similar aged golf R32. I don't think it will go back up in valve in the same way as the R32 and I think it will be my only experience of large capacity engine. I think price will go up and down depending on which car it is, anything not an enthusiast car will end up being scrapped. Electric cars will end up taking over and the tax will come in in one way or another (higher electrically bills or trackers for pay as you drive (if they car put speed limiters in the cars I'm sure this car be done) so you pay at peak times and not just distance))
Just my 2p.
Mr Spoon said:
Brooksay said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
It'll be taxed to buggery though.
Agree with this. I only have a 3.7 litre V6 in the 370Z, and that already costs 630 a year to tax. k me! 15 a week without even starting the engine! cerb4.5lee said:
Mr Spoon said:
Brooksay said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
It'll be taxed to buggery though.
Agree with this. I only have a 3.7 litre V6 in the 370Z, and that already costs 630 a year to tax. k me! 15 a week without even starting the engine! Mr Spoon said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Mr Spoon said:
Brooksay said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
It'll be taxed to buggery though.
Agree with this. I only have a 3.7 litre V6 in the 370Z, and that already costs 630 a year to tax. k me! 15 a week without even starting the engine! ecsrobin said:
If there is no change to the current plan of phasing out fossil fuels then could we not see the market crash and just be worth scrap values in 2030-40 as all our cars come obsolete?
What percentage of cars get replaced every year? 5-7%? So even if everyone starts replacing their ICE or Hybrid with an electric car it’d take a minimum of 13 years, so 2043. That’s also assuming no one buys a hybrid after 2030 which is unlikely, so fuel supply infrastructure will exist for a good while yet.
Used values could slip for the thirsty cars that have no specialist market, but the rarer stuff will have market for a lot longer.
I’m certainly not planning on selling any of mine, but have thought about adding a small electric car to the fleet to do the school run, shopping, short trips etc - basically anywhere I’m just sat in traffic. Current issue is that the cost is just too high - even if the ‘fuel’ is almost free, which is no longer always true, the cost of owning one buys an awful lot of fuel for one of the other cars.
ecsrobin said:
If there is no change to the current plan of phasing out fossil fuels then could we not see the market crash and just be worth scrap values in 2030-40 as all our cars come obsolete?
Lot of investment going into development of synthetic efuels, particularly from Porsche.Plans for large step ups in production over the next few years which could see ICE cars kept on the road for a few decades yet.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-enviro...
cerb4.5lee said:
True, and I only did 1500 miles in the 370 last year!
You need to get out more! I managed 2,500 miles in my BMW Z4M Coupe between MOTs for the £600 road tax, but only about 2,000 miles in my E90 330i that cost £330 to tax.
The Z4M may become sought after, but somehow I don't think the 330i will!
Mr Tidy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
True, and I only did 1500 miles in the 370 last year!
You need to get out more! I managed 2,500 miles in my BMW Z4M Coupe between MOTs for the 600 road tax, but only about 2,000 miles in my E90 330i that cost 330 to tax.
The Z4M may become sought after, but somehow I don't think the 330i will!
The Z4M definitely seems to be sought after when you look at their values.
I will always like the E90 330i/330d regardless, because I think that they are great all round cars.
This is partly what persuaded me to sell my M2. Fear of heavy depreciation thanks to the impact of higher domestic energy costs, particularly this autumn/winter, alongside the rise in fuel prices.
But what was the final nail in the coffin was the release of the new M2 with a manual gearbox.
I'm so fed up with motoring journalists offering badly disguised financial advice in the form of "the last of the breed" and "snap one up while you can".
The 130i was hailed as "the last of the 6 cylinder petrol RWD cars with a manual gearbox".
Then the M135i came along, and that received the same.
Then the M2, which i remember thinking must be the pinnacle of the 6 cylinder RWD layout, and still having a manual box!
Then the M2 comp was produced, and everyone said that would be the absolutely last, final, peak, best iteration of 6 cylinder RWD cars. The next will DEFINITELY be a 4 pot.
Then the new M240i was announced with....you guessed it, 6 cylinders and RWD.
And the new M2 is coming along with a manual box still, despite the warnings of that not being an option.
I give up.
But what was the final nail in the coffin was the release of the new M2 with a manual gearbox.
I'm so fed up with motoring journalists offering badly disguised financial advice in the form of "the last of the breed" and "snap one up while you can".
The 130i was hailed as "the last of the 6 cylinder petrol RWD cars with a manual gearbox".
Then the M135i came along, and that received the same.
Then the M2, which i remember thinking must be the pinnacle of the 6 cylinder RWD layout, and still having a manual box!
Then the M2 comp was produced, and everyone said that would be the absolutely last, final, peak, best iteration of 6 cylinder RWD cars. The next will DEFINITELY be a 4 pot.
Then the new M240i was announced with....you guessed it, 6 cylinders and RWD.
And the new M2 is coming along with a manual box still, despite the warnings of that not being an option.
I give up.
It's really hard to predict this.
There's two trails of thought from me. I think things with an interesting engine will have a huge appeal to some. Even the likes of an RS6 or an M5 or E63 as there will still be people who want to take the family out in an engaging, interesting car. They may not carry the same weight as the likes of a V12 Ferrari or V10 Lambo but they'll be in that realm where normal people can afford them but they'll perhaps hit a peak and not dip.
I'd love to think that my CLS63 will remain interesting, it's a good looking four seater car with a 500bhp 6.2 V8. That engine stood out at the time it was brand new and more so as it ages and engines shrink by the year.
Look how many of us get excited by cars that even 10-15 years ago were exciting and they're either gone crazy in value or become affordable but petrolheads will exist for a long time.
On the flip side of that, it may be false hope and we'll see everything bar the real high end exotica plummet and become worthless.
There's two trails of thought from me. I think things with an interesting engine will have a huge appeal to some. Even the likes of an RS6 or an M5 or E63 as there will still be people who want to take the family out in an engaging, interesting car. They may not carry the same weight as the likes of a V12 Ferrari or V10 Lambo but they'll be in that realm where normal people can afford them but they'll perhaps hit a peak and not dip.
I'd love to think that my CLS63 will remain interesting, it's a good looking four seater car with a 500bhp 6.2 V8. That engine stood out at the time it was brand new and more so as it ages and engines shrink by the year.
Look how many of us get excited by cars that even 10-15 years ago were exciting and they're either gone crazy in value or become affordable but petrolheads will exist for a long time.
On the flip side of that, it may be false hope and we'll see everything bar the real high end exotica plummet and become worthless.
thiscocks said:
deckster said:
I do confess that I am not in the Ferrari-buying demographic. But my suspicion is that most who buy Ferraris buy them because they want a Ferrari. Not because they want a car that goes quickly.
PTF said:
But what was the final nail in the coffin was the release of the new M2 with a manual gearbox.
...
I'm so fed up with motoring journalists offering badly disguised financial advice in the form of "the last of the breed" and "snap one up while you can".
...
I give up.
I can imagine if you're buying cars based on future potential value you're going to be pretty exasperated. Buy a car that you don't want to sell and you don't need to worry about it any more as your lack of desire to sell it makes it worthless. Sound financial advice ...
I'm so fed up with motoring journalists offering badly disguised financial advice in the form of "the last of the breed" and "snap one up while you can".
...
I give up.
Works for me anyway, I don't think of any of my cars as having value, as I don't want to sell them, so to me, the money is gone. Much happier that way.
Possibly the epitome of Big Engines Done Good has been the market for late model V8 Holdens in Australia.
The list price on a basic 2016 Commodore SS was about AU$40k. You’ll pay that today for one that’s now 6 years old with around 150,000km. That’ll have a 6.2-litre LS3 with around 420bhp, 0-60 in around 5s.
Wagons seem to be holding up even better, and HSV is probably depreciation-proof, esp with the supercharged LSA and 560-650bhp.
However, at the time the market was getting tougher for these particular dinosaurs so I doubt anyone paid close to list price, except maybe towards the end to get one of the last late-2017 variants.
Case study could be my own car. A 2016 Calais V V8 Wagon - same engine as the SS above, just a bit more Ghia X. List price was about $59k, I paid $40k in late 2020, similar being advertised now for $55k-70k.
There’s nothing aspirational about these cars, they are in the same category as fast Fords, and have been tapped by the local psyche.
Mine costs about $1000pa to put on the road - fully comp insurance is another $1500. Fuel usage is crazy, but just listen to it - skip to 1:55…
The list price on a basic 2016 Commodore SS was about AU$40k. You’ll pay that today for one that’s now 6 years old with around 150,000km. That’ll have a 6.2-litre LS3 with around 420bhp, 0-60 in around 5s.
Wagons seem to be holding up even better, and HSV is probably depreciation-proof, esp with the supercharged LSA and 560-650bhp.
However, at the time the market was getting tougher for these particular dinosaurs so I doubt anyone paid close to list price, except maybe towards the end to get one of the last late-2017 variants.
Case study could be my own car. A 2016 Calais V V8 Wagon - same engine as the SS above, just a bit more Ghia X. List price was about $59k, I paid $40k in late 2020, similar being advertised now for $55k-70k.
There’s nothing aspirational about these cars, they are in the same category as fast Fords, and have been tapped by the local psyche.
Mine costs about $1000pa to put on the road - fully comp insurance is another $1500. Fuel usage is crazy, but just listen to it - skip to 1:55…
TeaVR said:
I know........crystal ball stuff, but which way do you think it will go?
In the future (say next 5-10 years), will large capacity engined cars (V8s, V10s, etc) be very much sought after, or will they become pretty much worthless?
My personal thoughts are that the very special stuff will be collected and hoarded, but the mass produced large capacity engined cars will devalue to the point that they become hot potatoes.
Thoughts?
What is your definition of 'large capacity?' and which countries are you referring too?In the future (say next 5-10 years), will large capacity engined cars (V8s, V10s, etc) be very much sought after, or will they become pretty much worthless?
My personal thoughts are that the very special stuff will be collected and hoarded, but the mass produced large capacity engined cars will devalue to the point that they become hot potatoes.
Thoughts?
Edited by TeaVR on Sunday 15th May 13:38
Alex_225 said:
I'd love to think that my CLS63 will remain interesting, it's a good looking four seater car with a 500bhp 6.2 V8. That engine stood out at the time it was brand new and more so as it ages and engines shrink by the year.
I think a lot of the AMG's will remain in demand. They're build around some epic engines - the E55k being one, the 6.2 that followed it being another. Halo engines in halo models.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff