RE: Caterham Seven 420 Cup | PH Review

[Smitters]

kambites said:

I'm not sure I really understand the complaints about the price. Caterham have always made very expensive variants of their cars; if you want a cheap one you can still get a Seven new for 25k which is about the same as a typical C-segment family hatchback.

Because there doesn't seem to be a good reason for the price. The chassis is still the same steel object, the bodywork a mix of alu and (I hope, for the price) carbon fibre.

As Nigel has pointed out above, his 620R was less than this - why is it over £50k?

Also, if you go on Caterham's configurator and spec a really nice 420R, including heater, carbon heated seats, carbon nose, wings and dash, aero screen and full windscreen and weather pack to make it good for road and track, then budget £2k for Nitrons, you're still miles off this £60k plus vehicle.

Still, I'm sure some will pay it. I just don't know why.

[Hatchoo]

kambites said:

I'm not sure I really understand the complaints about the price. Caterham have always made very expensive variants of their cars; if you want a cheap one you can still get a Seven new for 25k which is about the same as a typical C-segment family hatchback.

This.

[subirg]

Complaining about the price of a £60k caterham whilst plenty of punters are splashing £100k+ on a new radical, or £70k+ on an atom, or £250k on a Bac mono. Or even £250k on a pork gt3. Makes no sense to me. If you want a new car at this level of performance, there are very few alternatives. If you want used, then you can obviously pick up cheaper stuff.

Well done Caterham for offering this spec option. I hope they sell lots of them.

[Schafseckel]

With the majority of production in their Dartford factory impacted by part shortages it's an interesting tine to launch a new model. Last year's 12 month lead times look to be heading towards 18 months.

[Sion111R]

Zumbruk said:

"I’d likely be one of the people with a trailer and a plush tow car who the braver owners regard as being a total wuss at the end of a track day."

Call me a total wuss if you like, but one of the highlights of a track day for me was climbing, sweaty and exhausted, full of adrenaline, into the plush, quiet, comfy, air-conditioned cocoon of the Rangie to trundle home, savouring the highlights of the day, rather than sitting at exhaust height in a traffic jam or cringing from the lorries on the motorway in the track car.

Or driving home with a broken suspension top mount, cooked brakes and leaving a trail of gravel behind you….(not in a Caterham though).

[kambites]

Smitters said:

Because there doesn't seem to be a good reason for the price. The chassis is still the same steel object, the bodywork a mix of alu and (I hope, for the price) carbon fibre.

When has cost of manufacture ever had a major bearing on the price of a car. Why is a BMW M3 twice the price of a 320d? It's certainly not because it costs twice as much to produce!

Any car is worth whatever price will result in the biggest profit for the company producing it, which is a balancing act between profit per unit and number of units.

Smitters said:

As Nigel has pointed out above, his 620R was less than this - why is it over 50k?

His 620R was 53k... 5 years ago! £53k in 2017 is roughly £63k in today's money.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 25th May 12:47

[Sandpit Steve]

Sion111R said:

Or driving home with a broken suspension top mount, cooked brakes and leaving a trail of gravel behind you….(not in a Caterham though).

[nigelpugh7]

kambites said:

His 620R was 53k... 5 years ago! 53k in 2017 is roughly 63k in today's money.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 25th May 12:47

Just tried the caterham configuration tool for 620 with the f pack, can’t add the other stuff easily but it’s £57K

[sidesauce]

nigelpugh7 said:

kambites said:

His 620R was 53k... 5 years ago! 53k in 2017 is roughly 63k in today's money.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 25th May 12:47

Just tried the caterham configuration tool for 620 with the f pack, can’t add the other stuff easily but it’s 57K

Precisely.

Making the 420 cost more whilst getting less. It's not hard to understand.

[Caddyshack]

I had 230hp 7 and didn’t think it was that quick over 60mph to be honest. The aero doesn’t help it much. Have driven r300 and r500…the 500 did feel fast and about right in my opinion. I would go for the 620 personally.

[RacerMike]

Sion111R said:

Zumbruk said:

"I’d likely be one of the people with a trailer and a plush tow car who the braver owners regard as being a total wuss at the end of a track day."

Call me a total wuss if you like, but one of the highlights of a track day for me was climbing, sweaty and exhausted, full of adrenaline, into the plush, quiet, comfy, air-conditioned cocoon of the Rangie to trundle home, savouring the highlights of the day, rather than sitting at exhaust height in a traffic jam or cringing from the lorries on the motorway in the track car.

Or driving home with a broken suspension top mount, cooked brakes and leaving a trail of gravel behind you….(not in a Caterham though).

I managed 2 sprints when I did the Academy before I phoned up PRG and ordered a trailer! Long journeys in any 7 are a chore, but in a race prepped one, are almost unbearable. It didn’t help that my car had one of the loudest Sierra diff’s you’d ever heard in your life. Genuinely sounded like someone milling chunks of billet steel on a lathe.

To drive to Aintree I wore noise cancelling in ear earphones and a set of ear defenders! And then slept in a tent which I had in the boot, along with a trolley jack and half a toolkit, a sleeping bag and clothes, with a 25l Jerry can and a bottle of oil, brake fluid and, a spare wheel and tyre assembly and a can of brake cleaner in the space next to me where you’d normally have the passenger seat, sat on top of 15kg of bolted down roofing lead. Still amazed I did it!

[ddom]

subirg said:

Complaining about the price of a 60k caterham whilst plenty of punters are splashing 100k+ on a new radical, or 70k+ on an atom, or 250k on a Bac mono. Or even 250k on a pork gt3. Makes no sense to me. If you want a new car at this level of performance, there are very few alternatives. If you want used, then you can obviously pick up cheaper stuff.

Well done Caterham for offering this spec option. I hope they sell lots of them.

They won't.

You cannot compare a Caterham to Ariel or BAC, they both make the 7 look a bit daft in respect to build quality. It's just hugely overpriced.

[subirg]

ddom said:

They won't.

You cannot compare a Caterham to Ariel or BAC, they both make the 7 look a bit daft in respect to build quality. It's just hugely overpriced.

But these are specifically designed to be track day weapons. Not garage queens or long distance tourers. They are bargains to track and maintain. Easy as pie to look after. And will destroy pretty much any normal road car including so called ‘super cars’ and ‘hyper cars’.

[BertBert]

A bit of a confusing car. Just a specific configuration of Caterham with a special name. Original thought 0/10
And that colour scheme 0/10

Probably great to drive, but not 5x greater than the one I've got (at a 5th of the price).

[ddom]

subirg said:

But these are specifically designed to be track day weapons. Not garage queens or long distance tourers. They are bargains to track and maintain. Easy as pie to look after. And will destroy pretty much any normal road car including so called ‘super cars’ and ‘hyper cars’.

Not at £50K

My old SLR is likely worth half that and would show a 420 a clean pair of heels. Also. I think these days the performance gap has narrowed with super hatches tbh, a lower powered Crate would be quite annoying at a longer circuit. I guess painted like a rhubarb and custard sweet at least people would see you

[mcerbm]

ddom said:

subirg said:

But these are specifically designed to be track day weapons. Not garage queens or long distance tourers. They are bargains to track and maintain. Easy as pie to look after. And will destroy pretty much any normal road car including so called ‘super cars’ and ‘hyper cars’.

Not at 50K

My old SLR is likely worth half that and would show a 420 a clean pair of heels. Also. I think these days the performance gap has narrowed with super hatches tbh, a lower powered Crate would be quite annoying at a longer circuit. I guess painted like a rhubarb and custard sweet at least people would see you

Are you sure it would show it a clean pair of heels? This car will be as quick as the previous spec 420R race car. Have you any UK circuit lap times / videos you have set in your SLR for comparison?

Its a bit unfair to compare this new factory car to a used caterham. You can play that with any manufacturer, its unusual that the new factory offering is as good value as the owners own used market example...

Seems a good way to get a NA engine and a sadev since the Donington was a limited edition. Adjustable dampers from factory also a new addition.

[Caddyshack]

I can’t think what SLR is being talked about?

[mcerbm]

hopefully one that has set quick lap times to compare against the 420 cup

[KnifeySpoony]

Smitters said:

Because there doesn't seem to be a good reason for the price. The chassis is still the same steel object, the bodywork a mix of alu and (I hope, for the price) carbon fibre.

As Nigel has pointed out above, his 620R was less than this - why is it over 50k?

Also, if you go on Caterham's configurator and spec a really nice 420R, including heater, carbon heated seats, carbon nose, wings and dash, aero screen and full windscreen and weather pack to make it good for road and track, then budget 2k for Nitrons, you're still miles off this 60k plus vehicle.

Still, I'm sure some will pay it. I just don't know why.

Don't forget to add on the Sadev ($$$$) and the 620 dash. The Sadev is a big chunk of change on its own.

[thebraketester]

Blimey. That roll cage isn't exactly a thing of beauty is it? Who designed it, david blunkett?