RE: Incredible Prodrive P25 revealed ahead of debut

RE: Incredible Prodrive P25 revealed ahead of debut

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Discussion

fttm

3,667 posts

134 months

Friday 24th June 2022
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Slippydiff , please tell me to mind my own business but I'm intrigued to know which car you had ? Have an inkling but ......

NWMark

516 posts

215 months

Friday 24th June 2022
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Too much of this screams part bin special / reproduction rather than properly design and engineered 'new' car

e.g. those front headlight/indicator split units - come on please this is a half million pound car - one piece headlight/indicator LED units please!

KarlMac

4,457 posts

140 months

Friday 24th June 2022
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blue al said:
I’m not sure if I missed something along the way but TVR still cannot even show a factory roof to the taxpayers of Wales, or punters at @ Goodwood.
Yet some posters are queuing up to kick Prodrive for selling all their projected cars production prior to the car spending a full 12 months or longer in development, and all this without a penny contribution from the government, if only one car is eventually exported then that looks like a good news story in my book?

Seems to me that their only crime is to sell all 25 cars over some fantasy 100k price point that only exists in the mind of demon tweaks subscribers, who never have or never will drop 100k on a toy of any description?

Or am I over simplifying things ?
Pretty much on the money. Obviously people getting to view and spec them up close have seen something worth opening their wallets for.

MDMA .

8,849 posts

100 months

Friday 24th June 2022
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NWMark said:
Too much of this screams part bin special / reproduction rather than properly design and engineered 'new' car

e.g. those front headlight/indicator split units - come on please this is a half million pound car - one piece headlight/indicator LED units please!
You could say it is. I believe it’s just a standard V3 Type R WRX that they’ve been buying up from Japan to use as the base car and modifying them. Not a “ground up”, bespoke build.

aaron_2000

5,407 posts

82 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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MDMA . said:
NWMark said:
Too much of this screams part bin special / reproduction rather than properly design and engineered 'new' car

e.g. those front headlight/indicator split units - come on please this is a half million pound car - one piece headlight/indicator LED units please!
You could say it is. I believe it’s just a standard V3 Type R WRX that they’ve been buying up from Japan to use as the base car and modifying them. Not a “ground up”, bespoke build.
For the money I'm not sure I'd want it based on arguably the least desirable version of the GC8's. I've never liked the V3, even when I had a V3 STI wagon I never got on with the interior compared to the V4/5/6

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Max_Torque said:
The P2 was probably almost certainly the biggest heap of s**t i ever worked on at Prodrive.....

A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.


ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.

The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
Sounds like the perfect project car for me then, I'm good at making previously poor cars work.

I wasn't interested in ATD for it's road manners, you can just stick it into a passive rear diff mode and work it like the normal DCCD-A system for that if required. I'll take a system i can play with based on torque application over a braked torque distribution system for my kind of fun driving. Of course road car safety systems have gone down the other route now, but sod that, give me throttle and transfer of weight control with the assistance of positive torque distribution.

I understand what you mean about the philosophy behind the ATD mapping, it never made any sense to me at the time and i said so, if i got my hands on it i wouldn't try and change a drivers instinctive feedback loop because it's technically possible or even theoretically faster. It's like jumping in a 1950's F1 car and finding the shifter H pattern is backwards, it fries your head. biggrin

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Max_Torque said:
My fav handling scoob was actually a SpecC which had had its front drive shafts removed, making it rwd only.......... Basically a forerunner to a GT-86 turbo by about 20 years :-)
The GT86/BRZ has a conventional engine and box RWD layout, it's closer to a Nissan 200SX than an Impreza. Pity they haven't made a factory turbo version.

A RWD Spec C is a bit of a waste of time, slow compared to the AWD version, but like any 280BHP RWD car, it can be a lot of fun.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:
Not David Lapworth's finest interview. Should have left it to DR, he's much more adept in such situations.
Whilst I appreciate The Festival of Greed is a great shop window, but if all 25 cars were effectively sold prior to this week, I'd have thought they'd have been better off organising demonstration days at a closed event so the purchasers could experience the car and what it's capable of with someone like Mark Higgins behind the wheel, then they'd get the opportunity to get behind the wheel themselves. One they'd experienced the car, they'd then be shown the various options available and decide on their chosen spec.

Turning up at the FoG with a prototype that features an interior that's not representative along with shonky shutlines seems a strange decision ... unless of course they've plans to offer an upgrade service to individuals wanting a similar car but who've missed out on this batch of 25 cars ... (which would make sense if they wanted to amortise/further profit from the investment they made for the "initial" limited edition P25 cars ...)
You can do both, and they are, if you listen to Mr Lapworth.

It's clear from the discussion the car at the FOS is just a concept prototype, the cars when built will be tailored to what you want.

Whats wrong with showing off a new project in it's early stages, it happens often at events like the FOS. It gets people talking and garners interest in the company name. The only downside is negative people not understanding what a prototype is talking bks. but thats far outweighed by the positives.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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aaron_2000 said:
MDMA . said:
NWMark said:
Too much of this screams part bin special / reproduction rather than properly design and engineered 'new' car

e.g. those front headlight/indicator split units - come on please this is a half million pound car - one piece headlight/indicator LED units please!
You could say it is. I believe it’s just a standard V3 Type R WRX that they’ve been buying up from Japan to use as the base car and modifying them. Not a “ground up”, bespoke build.
For the money I'm not sure I'd want it based on arguably the least desirable version of the GC8's. I've never liked the V3, even when I had a V3 STI wagon I never got on with the interior compared to the V4/5/6
It's a pity they are using original V3 Type R's as that's another 25 surviving cars out of circulation, i was hoping for new shells to be used as a ground up build, but what version they used is otherwise irrelevant, all the parts than made a V3 are in the bin anyway, it's just the shell that will survive.

If you were going to do it from an original 2 door shell, you want the cheapest base, the WRX Type R didn't have any of the fun stuff the STi version had. For the left hookers I'd be buying up USDM 2.5 RS's for peanuts and starting from there.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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jsf said:
You can do both, and they are, if you listen to Mr Lapworth.
Any chance you could be more specific, rather than just ranting randomly ? I get you enjoy it, but it doesn't really serve any purpose other than to make you look like a reasonably sophisticated troll.

jsf said:
It's clear from the discussion the car at the FOS is just a concept prototype, the cars when built will be tailored to what you want.
Yes, I got thanks, and I didn't need Angry McAngry to tell me.

jsf said:
What's wrong with showing off a new project in it's early stages, it happens often at events like the FOS.
And by the same token, what's the point ? Especially when you have to have to have the word "Prototype" wrote large on the car so people don't mistake it for the badly finished end product ...

jsf said:
It gets people talking and garners interest in the company name.
Which would be a stroke of genius if the company in question hadn't made a point of making it's modus operandi to work on a consultancy basis for large automobile manufacturers (and other large companies) under a veil of secrecy, for several decades ...

jsf said:
The only downside is negative people not understanding what a prototype is talking bks. but thats far outweighed by the positives.
Hopefully that's not aimed at me, because if it is, I suggest you check back through this thread and see if I've made any comment on such matters. I'll do you a favour, you needn't bother, because I've not. So the comment I made earlier about randomly ranting applies in this instance too.





JAMSXR

1,402 posts

46 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Cars like this are like NFTs, I can’t relate to them and they seems pretty pointless, but they don’t half generate some keyboard bashing.

Get me a fridge freezer if this is the future if ICE, oh wait…

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:
jsf said:
You can do both, and they are, if you listen to Mr Lapworth.
Any chance you could be more specific, rather than just ranting randomly ? I get you enjoy it, but it doesn't really serve any purpose other than to make you look like a reasonably sophisticated troll.

jsf said:
It's clear from the discussion the car at the FOS is just a concept prototype, the cars when built will be tailored to what you want.
Yes, I got thanks, and I didn't need Angry McAngry to tell me.

jsf said:
What's wrong with showing off a new project in it's early stages, it happens often at events like the FOS.
And by the same token, what's the point ? Especially when you have to have to have the word "Prototype" wrote large on the car so people don't mistake it for the badly finished end product ...

jsf said:
It gets people talking and garners interest in the company name.
Which would be a stroke of genius if the company in question hadn't made a point of making it's modus operandi to work on a consultancy basis for large automobile manufacturers (and other large companies) under a veil of secrecy, for several decades ...

jsf said:
The only downside is negative people not understanding what a prototype is talking bks. but thats far outweighed by the positives.
Hopefully that's not aimed at me, because if it is, I suggest you check back through this thread and see if I've made any comment on such matters. I'll do you a favour, you needn't bother, because I've not. So the comment I made earlier about randomly ranting applies in this instance too.
Have you been drinking?

First time I've been called a troll when discussing impreza's.

There is no anger or ranting in any of my posts, clearly that cant be said of yours.

navmangt

57 posts

117 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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jsf said:
It's a pity they are using original V3 Type R's as that's another 25 surviving cars out of circulation, i was hoping for new shells to be used as a ground up build, but what version they used is otherwise irrelevant, all the parts than made a V3 are in the bin anyway, it's just the shell that will survive.

If you were going to do it from an original 2 door shell, you want the cheapest base, the WRX Type R didn't have any of the fun stuff the STi version had. For the left hookers I'd be buying up USDM 2.5 RS's for peanuts and starting from there.
According to some guy on insta who was at FoS and asked the guys a bunch of questions, 18 of the chassis were picked up and are a combination of a few type Rs but mostly US coupes. The remaining will be customer donor cars. Cost to build each one is around £200k as well apparently.

Probably worth taking that with a pinch of salt, but the chassis situation seems believable enough.

The main iDrive style controller is another motec part around £500.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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jsf said:
The only downside is negative people not understanding what a prototype is talking bks. but thats far outweighed by the positives.
Yep, not a trace of anger or a rant there whatsoever.

And no I hadn't been drinking, I'm tea total, and I don't appreciate the inference that I had been either. A classic case of not judging everyone by your own standards perhaps, methinks.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:
Yep, not a trace of anger or a rant there whatsoever.

And no I hadn't been drinking, I'm tea total, and I don't appreciate the inference that I had been either. A classic case of not judging everyone by your own standards perhaps, methinks.
You've got a serious attitude problem for someone sober.

There has been no malice, anger or any other negative attribute to my posts on this thread. You by comparison have taken it upon yourself to slag off people and companies and try and make this thread about your disastrous project and poor decisions.

This thread is about the P25, it would be nice to have that discussed.

KarlMac

4,457 posts

140 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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For what it’s worth it was flipping rapid up the hill. Not sure who was driving but they were properly peddling on the runs I saw.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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jsf said:
You've got a serious attitude problem for someone sober.
The irony is strong in this one.

jsf said:
There has been no malice, anger or any other negative attribute to my posts on this thread
Get over yourself. Your lack of self-awareness is clear for all to see.

jsf said:
You by comparison have taken it upon yourself to slag off people and companies and try and make this thread about your disastrous project and poor decisions.
I speak how I find. And I've made a point of not naming and shaming the individuals whose behaviour was less than exemplary. Whilst those who were professional, transparent and honest received the credit they were due. Is that ok with you ?

jsf said:
This thread is about the P25, it would be nice to have that discussed.
True, and several individuals have suggested the P25 is close to a Prodrive S5 WRC car in it's engineering/technology. I've merely suggested it's not.
But if we're talking about going off topic, you've sidetracked the thread discussing other cars and dazzling us with your Yoda like geekery about Impreza chassis numbers ...

To those of you that enjoyed the first couple of posts about my WRC car exploits, thankyou for taking the time to make it clear you enjoyed them.

Regrettably one individual has made it clear that he didn't, so the final part I'd planned to post won't be forthcoming. My apologies.


hairykrishna

13,159 posts

202 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:
True, and several individuals have suggested the P25 is close to a Prodrive S5 WRC car in it's engineering/technology. I've merely suggested it's not.
I don't really understand what basis you have for this suggestion? Yes, the WRC cars were a long way from the average modified road car with a lot of expensive bespoke bits. So, seemingly, is the P25.

trails

3,624 posts

148 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:
Pro level flounce biggrin
With all due respect and no malice, John is one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people that’s been involved in Subaru scene since the early days, not to mention motorsport in general. An all round good-egg, You are way off the mark in your analysis smile

It would be great to see a full thread of your (mis) adventure, I’m sure many on PH would enjoy reading it and it’s conclusion beer


anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Slippydiff said:


Regrettably one individual has made it clear that he didn't, so the final part I'd planned to post won't be forthcoming. My apologies.
I don't know how people will cope.

You should read back your posts, it oddball stuff.