RE: Mercedes EQXX does 746 miles on single charge

RE: Mercedes EQXX does 746 miles on single charge

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Flooble

5,565 posts

99 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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SWoll said:
Pointless.

Chargers everywhere and increasing by the day, EV's that will already do 300 miles on a charge (or 5 hours+ of driving) and can recharge in < 30 minutes.

Who is this for? How many people need a car that can drive for 10+ hours without stopping for a break?

The battery tech is impressive but should be used to make EV's lighter with smaller batteries and better energy density, not give them ridiculous range that 1 in a million people might need. Give this a 50kW battery and it would weigh < 1500KG and still cover 400 miles.
Except that it's not really that simple. If every hotel had a bank of working chargers for people to use overnight and every workplace had chargepoint that was functioning then it might be different. But right now you can have no confidence that any given chargepoint will be working, or that you will have the correct app/card/whatever to use it. If you are driving for a reason, you generally don't want to spend any longer than necessary doing anything else.

E.g. Get up at 0530 to drive 150 miles to a customer - don't want to stop enroute, have to get up early enough already. If the customer has nowhere to charge, then your next trip beings -150 down on your full range. If you have to do a full day (and plenty of customers will squeeze for the maximum they can get out of you) then you do not want to be stopping for an hour on the next leg of your journey - especially if your next day is another 0530 start, you will likely just grab room service at the hotel. So you need a chargepoint at your overnight hotel, otherwise you will be arriving, and hence starting the next day, with an empty battery.

No, not everyone is a "road warrior", especially these days. But more range is never going to be something you don't want. It's the not the single journey that gets you, it's when you have an itinerary and you aren't starting each leg fully charged.

Wills2

22,666 posts

174 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Flooble said:
But more range is never going to be something you don't want.
This sums it up perfectly, why some posters dismiss an increase in range and efficiency is baffling, who wouldn't want to go further on a charge? Cheaper/more convenient/less wasted time/less energy consumption.







SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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john41901 said:
SWoll said:
Why would the current EQS with 400+ miles of range leave you will range anxiety?
Well yes it would because most of those quoted EV ranges are barely believable horse st.
SWoll said:
Range anxiety is a term thrown around by people who've never owned an EV and is something you get past very quickly when you have.
Rubbishing range anxiety as a concern is the mission of the determined EVangelist. Quite frankly it is far more than a valid concern, ranges deteriorate over time and are utter bks to begin with. The charging network is also very far away from every being fit for purpose and EVs are totally unsuitable for anyone without home charging. This range story just means in extreme cases perhaps an EV can match a similar range to a cheap second hand diesel. Great.

Cue the usual EVangelist nut-jobs arriving in 5...4..3... laugh
Can I ask what EV you run in order to have come to the conclusions above and for how long?

Not interested in evangelising anything, I've lived with EV's for 3+ years and have actually experienced the reality unlike the vast majority of posters who complain about 'range anxiety' and who all appear to live in flats with nowhere to charge. Thought that perspective might be considered useful.

If the experience was ste I'd have gone back to ICE long ago as couldn't car less about green credentials and as ours are personal make no savings on BIK either.

So forgetting about the ad hom insults for a minute as heard them all, why does ultimate range matter so much to posters like yourself? Planning on a 5+ hour, 300+ mile trip regularly where you absolutely can't stop? Any posters who've actually run an EV got complaints about range and charging? be nice to see some balance in GG for a change.

Wills2 said:
Flooble said:
But more range is never going to be something you don't want.
This sums it up perfectly, why some posters dismiss an increase in range and efficiency is baffling, who wouldn't want to go further on a charge? Cheaper/more convenient/less wasted time/less energy consumption.
When it comes at the cost of price, weight, practicality, performance, ride and handling then I'd suggest it's a valid question. FYI It'll also be les efficient than a lighter car with a smaller battery for all of the shorter trips you do so entirely a negative experience for the sake of providing 10+ hours of non stop driving that pretty much no-one needs.

Flooble

5,565 posts

99 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Several EVs, ever since the original Leaf through another Leaf and then a Niro. So I see your 3 years and raise you 10. Not that it's relevant as you didn't actually read what I wrote. At no point did I say I was

"Planning on a 5+ hour, 300+ mile trip regularly where you absolutely can't stop? "

Instead, I said that it's the inability to charge at your destination in between trips that kills you. 300 miles of range (or, lets be honest, 250 if it's winter, wet or you are in a hurry) is great, but when it's two 150 hour trips with ten hours of work in between, I do not want to be stopping on either the journey there or the journey back. I can do 3 hours without needing to stop, as I will the use the facilities when I arrive on site. When you are spending 16 hours out the house, "just stopping for an hour" is not something you want to do.

That's the reality for people who do consultancy on various sites. No, it's not 90% of the population, but for that 10% having another couple of hundred miles is welcome. Particularly as in this case it appears to come with no weight or practicality disadvantages anyway.

Roger Irrelevant

2,898 posts

112 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Flooble said:
Instead, I said that it's the inability to charge at your destination in between trips that kills you.
This is a real thing for me I must admit. Like most I don't often do 200+ mile days, and from that it might seem that an EV would be fine for me. However I do quite often do 100-130 miles to places nowhere near a charger and then come back again. I have a normal bladder and hate anything remotely resembling a service station so 'just stopping for a pee and a coffee while you charge' is to be avoided at all costs. So really I want something with real-world, year-round range in the high 200s at mostly motorway speeds, but ones that fit the bill are still a bit pricey right now. That will doubtless change though and I'm looking forward to when it does.

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
quotequote all
Flooble said:
Several EVs, ever since the original Leaf through another Leaf and then a Niro. So I see your 3 years and raise you 10. Not that it's relevant as you didn't actually read what I wrote. At no point did I say I was

"Planning on a 5+ hour, 300+ mile trip regularly where you absolutely can't stop? "

Instead, I said that it's the inability to charge at your destination in between trips that kills you. 300 miles of range (or, lets be honest, 250 if it's winter, wet or you are in a hurry) is great, but when it's two 150 hour trips with ten hours of work in between, I do not want to be stopping on either the journey there or the journey back. I can do 3 hours without needing to stop, as I will the use the facilities when I arrive on site. When you are spending 16 hours out the house, "just stopping for an hour" is not something you want to do.

That's the reality for people who do consultancy on various sites. No, it's not 90% of the population, but for that 10% having another couple of hundred miles is welcome. Particularly as in this case it appears to come with no weight or practicality disadvantages anyway.
Work in consultancy myself and your problem scenario affects a tiny minority of people (far less than 10%) which has decreased even further since the move to remote working for many through Covid. I've also never struggled to charge when I have had to visit a customer site and do a 300+ mile round trip in a day, just takes a bit of planning.

If you don't want to have to plan a stop on long journeys then surely you get an ICE car until charging is more widely available? Quite why people expect the infrastructure to be in place already to support everyone having an EV is beyond me. Who's going to invest in that for it to site idle and quickly go out of date?

Ever larger batteries and longer range EV's leads to bigger, heavier and worse driving cars that ruin our roads. When 99% have no use for these ridiculous ranges even on an occasional basis why are they key focus for manufacturers? Because they can charge more for them.

As above, even in your circumstances would you choose a 1500KG car with more space, better ride, better performance and 400 miles of range for £90k or a worse driving and less practical 1800KG car that costs £110k but will do 750 miles?

Roger Irrelevant said:
This is a real thing for me I must admit. Like most I don't often do 200+ mile days, and from that it might seem that an EV would be fine for me. However I do quite often do 100-130 miles to places nowhere near a charger and then come back again. I have a normal bladder and hate anything remotely resembling a service station so 'just stopping for a pee and a coffee while you charge' is to be avoided at all costs. So really I want something with real-world, year-round range in the high 200s at mostly motorway speeds, but ones that fit the bill are still a bit pricey right now. That will doubtless change though and I'm looking forward to when it does.
Out of interest, where are you travelling to where there are no chargers either nearby on en route?

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 25th June 13:12

donkmeister

7,996 posts

99 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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I think it's quite good looking... Like a CLS from a film set in the near future.

I'll pick one up used when it's £10-20k including a new battery biglaugh

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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donkmeister said:
I think it's quite good looking... Like a CLS from a film set in the near future.

I'll pick one up used when it's £10-20k including a new battery biglaugh
I do find it funny that to make an efficient EV MB have had to dump their corporate styling and make a car that looks like a re-badged Kia.

P. ONeill

1,455 posts

51 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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pSyCoSiS said:
700+ miles on a single charge is mental - more than most cars can do on a tank of diesel.

If this tech comes into the mainstream in the future, a lot more people will be considering electric.

EQXX does look decent.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn’t say that it is a good looking car.

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
quotequote all
P. ONeill said:
pSyCoSiS said:
700+ miles on a single charge is mental - more than most cars can do on a tank of diesel.

If this tech comes into the mainstream in the future, a lot more people will be considering electric.

EQXX does look decent.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn’t say that it is a good looking car.
As you admit it is an utterly subjective point, why bother posting in order to disagree?

98elise

26,368 posts

160 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Olivergt said:
What I want to know is how did they manage the 7.5 miles per kwh when a good EV can only manage 3?

This is like a manufacturer who's cars normally do 50mpg all of a sudden coming out with a car that does 100mpg.

How have they managed to double efficiency?
You can achieve much more than 3 you drive efficiently.

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
quotequote all
98elise said:
Olivergt said:
What I want to know is how did they manage the 7.5 miles per kwh when a good EV can only manage 3?

This is like a manufacturer who's cars normally do 50mpg all of a sudden coming out with a car that does 100mpg.

How have they managed to double efficiency?
You can achieve much more than 3 you drive efficiently.
Agree, 3 is pretty low these days, most can get a lot closer to 4.

7.5 is still a hell of a jump though, so as with the poster above I call BS. Even with super skinny + efficient tyres and a very slippery shape the 'conditions' for this must be absolutely optimum to stand any chance. In the real world 500+ will be impressive technically from a 100kWh pack in a car of this size.

ruggedscotty

5,606 posts

208 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Cobracc said:
How long does it take to charge..?
not long., just have to locate a fast charger....





Milkyway

9,290 posts

52 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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ruggedscotty said:
Cobracc said:
How long does it take to charge..?
not long., just have to locate a fast charger....




Cross section of the charging cable


sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
quotequote all
SWoll said:
donkmeister said:
I think it's quite good looking... Like a CLS from a film set in the near future.

I'll pick one up used when it's £10-20k including a new battery biglaugh
I do find it funny that to make an efficient EV MB have had to dump their corporate styling and make a car that looks like a re-badged Kia.
Please, seriously, show me which Kia even comes close to looking like this???

MrGeoff

645 posts

171 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Shappers24 said:
I’m still not convinced EV is the way forward even though it’s being pushed hard at the moment. I’m also not sure what the solution is if it isn’t EV…
I've been driving electric cars for the past 3 years and I would agree with you. I just don't see them being the future but then, like you, I don't know that the future is. Hydrogen is talked up but we are being forced down the electric car route. Is this just the next diesel, where we're told to buy them then find out it was the wrong thing to do?

ruggedscotty

5,606 posts

208 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
quotequote all
MrGeoff said:
Shappers24 said:
I’m still not convinced EV is the way forward even though it’s being pushed hard at the moment. I’m also not sure what the solution is if it isn’t EV…
I've been driving electric cars for the past 3 years and I would agree with you. I just don't see them being the future but then, like you, I don't know that the future is. Hydrogen is talked up but we are being forced down the electric car route. Is this just the next diesel, where we're told to buy them then find out it was the wrong thing to do?
Nope electric fits in with getting people away from fossel fuels. were going to need an alternative fuels anyways as fossil wont last for ever, plus they need to be getting the money away from the middle east. electrical power wil do that. fusion power is also going to happen. thats for sure and when that happens we will have lots of electricity.

so yes we are on the move, and no hydrogen isnt the answer. too many negatives there and of course there is a lot of concern about the production off. to satisfy a potential uptake that would be huge. we need to work on the battery technology as thats going well...

MrGTI6

3,157 posts

129 months

Saturday 25th June 2022
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Demhcs said:
Don’t most diesels do 700+ miles on a tank if driven sensibly?
I used to get more than that from an N-reg Peugeot without too much effort!

Draxindustries1

1,657 posts

22 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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MrGTI6 said:
Demhcs said:
Don’t most diesels do 700+ miles on a tank if driven sensibly?
I used to get more than that from an N-reg Peugeot without too much effort!
A Clio 1.5dci will do the same. Up to 70mpg will see 700 miles from a tankful, even old ones from 20years ago.
All at £30pa ved.

This Merc has this range as its just a showcase. It's filled with battery packs, there is only a drivers seat.

samoht

5,633 posts

145 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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Draxindustries1 said:
This Merc has this range as its just a showcase. It's filled with battery packs, there is only a drivers seat.



It has a 100 kWh battery, the same size as the EQS and many other long-range EVs. The gains are in lowering drag and improving efficiency.


Draxindustries1 said:
A Clio 1.5dci will do the same. Up to 70mpg will see 700 miles from a tankful, even old ones from 20years ago.
All at £30pa ved.
I'd much rather drive a half-decent EV than a rattly old Clio though. It also avoids pumping out NOx and CO2, and reduces our dependence on unfriendly foreign dictators for oil The point is not that 700 miles is a super-long way for a car to go on a 'tank', but that if an EV can match an ICE car for range, then its other benefits make it really compelling.