cyclists at night

Author
Discussion

KaraK

12,599 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
CheesecakeRunner said:
Marathon training on a road surface (doesn’t need to be the actual road) is the best way of training particularly for the long runs. Because road marathons are raced on the road. Coping with the varying surface is just as much a skill in road running, as it is in cycling. I’ve done 16 of the buggers (and three trail) and I’m trained to coach them, so forgive me if I differ from your view.
I think we can largely agree there - I can certainly agree with there being value in the different-surface training, and to some extent turns that the treadmill can't give you. It's why I've always liked to sprinkle some training in parks in. I've always found actual roads and pavements complete bobbins for long runs personally but that is quite possibly a "me" issue, and I doubt I'll change how I do it but I certainly don't mean to denigrate or trivialise your experience on this.

CheesecakeRunner said:
Comparing a turbo to a rowing erg is a pretty fair analogy though, I’ll give you that.
That's really helpful - I guess I always assumed a turbo was closer to a treadmill, which is a metric fkton closer to running outside than an erg is to being in an actual boat. If I had a fiver for every rower I've had to re-teach things I'd already taught them because they only had access to an erg for a few months and it's sent their technique to hell I'd probably have quite a few fivers! biggrin

POIDH

351 posts

45 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
oldagepensioner said:
I would like to make it clear that i am not anti cyclist. If that is your chosen mode of transport then good luck to you(and with some of the drivers out there i think you will need it).
Thank you. I do both.

[quote=oldagepensionerI do wish however that they would use a bit of common sense like using cycle paths when provided and i am not talking about the gutters at the edge of the road marked out with a single white line where all the crap gets thrown by other road users to puncture their tyres but the proper cycle paths even if they are shared with pedestrians.
oldagepensionerI said:
They
= some cyclists..
[quote=oldagepensionerIthey would use a bit of common sense
= and get out of the way of my important car.

oldagepensionerI said:
proper cycle paths
= often stty, poorly built, slow and dangerous.

oldagepensioner said:
My other gripe is their habit of riding at night without lights.
Agreed when SOME cyclists do not have light on.

oldagepensioner said:
my other pet hate
= I hate cyclists, unlike your opening statement.


saaby93

31,582 posts

158 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
POIDH said:
oldagepensioner said:
I would like to make it clear that i am not anti cyclist. If that is your chosen mode of transport then good luck to you(and with some of the drivers out there i think you will need it).
Thank you. I do both.

oldagepensioner said:
do wish however that they would use a bit of common sense like using cycle paths when provided and i am not talking about the gutters at the edge of the road marked out with a single white line where all the crap gets thrown by other road users to puncture their tyres but the proper cycle paths even if they are shared with pedestrians.
oldagepensioner said:
They
= some cyclists..
oldagepensioner said:
they would use a bit of common sense
= and get out of the way of my important car.

oldagepensioner said:
proper cycle paths
= often stty, poorly built, slow and dangerous.

oldagepensioner said:
My other gripe is their habit of riding at night without lights.
Agreed when SOME cyclists do not have light on.

oldagepensioner said:
my other pet hate
= I hate cyclists, unlike your opening statement.
As I said before, some people seem only here to create an argument
Why try to turn what someone else has said into something else?
Why not discuss what theyve really said
Why change their name

Ease up, smile, think nice thoughts cloud9


Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 2nd August 15:52

CheesecakeRunner

1,843 posts

71 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
KaraK said:
That's really helpful - I guess I always assumed a turbo was closer to a treadmill, which is a metric fkton closer to running outside than an erg is to being in an actual boat. If I had a fiver for every rower I've had to re-teach things I'd already taught them because they only had access to an erg for a few months and it's sent their technique to hell I'd probably have quite a few fivers! biggrin
Primarily it’s because (for most) turbos the bike is fixed in place. So whilst the cardio aspect of training is very similar to being on the road, the way you use some muscles is different as you’re not having to steer and balance the bike.

That said, for structured workouts targeting specific physiological adaptations, a turbo is ideal as you get a level of consistency that’s really hard to get on the road.

911hope

115 posts

6 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
CheesecakeRunner said:
Time trials are run on roads like that because they’re the safest place for it, and that’s actually the sport. Road time trialing. Put them on a track and it’s not the same sport. Put them on a velodrome and it’s not the same sport.

And bear in mind, decent club time trialists will be riding around 30 to 35mph. Elites 35 to 40. At those speeds a road is where they should be.
35mph would be world class for TT.


joshcowin

5,932 posts

156 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
KaraK said:
I'm not sure I quite understand the length argument, after all other races (motor and running) can cope on circuits just fine by doing more laps - but there's probably something I'm not aware of - in any event it's irrelevant as I see no problem having races on the roads. The only time I've ever objected was when I used to live somewhere where a local group ran "organised" time trials (I think) on a busy NSL A-road, (at rush hour no less!) but one example of idiocy does not invalidate a whole concept and I've seen far more well-run events than I've seen bad ones and from what I can tell as a layman closed or at the very least decently martialled roads are great race routes!

"Train in the environment you’re going to race" is great - except marathons aren't replicated by running on a road or pavement shared with others going about their business, it's a crap (IMO) substitute so I've only ever done it when I lacked access to better facilities at the time and I've generally come away from the experience unsatisfied. Sounds like the turbo for road cycling is like an erg is to rowing and has much same sub-optimal experience effect which sucks frown
I run on the road pretty much exclusively, I run at about 5:30 in the morning in a small town, there is no traffic and if there is I just pop onto the path for a few seconds, I head onto quiet country roads for long runs, only ever had one issue in many thousands of miles.

Agree with both of you I zwift a bit and it really does not replicate road riding!

Climbs are a big part of road cycling, 5km-20km long.

KaraK

12,599 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
CheesecakeRunner said:
Primarily it’s because (for most) turbos the bike is fixed in place. So whilst the cardio aspect of training is very similar to being on the road, the way you use some muscles is different as you’re not having to steer and balance the bike.

That said, for structured workouts targeting specific physiological adaptations, a turbo is ideal as you get a level of consistency that’s really hard to get on the road.
Yeah I can see how not having to balance is going to make quite a big difference!

911hope

115 posts

6 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
KaraK said:
Yeah I can see how not having to balance is going to make quite a big difference!
Cycle training on a turbo trainer is OK for shortish workouts, but has major downsides for endurance training.

The fixed bike means that it is always vertical and your pedalling will be exactly repetitive and often results in RSI.

You need a good trainer to bake resistance exponential to speed and it is close to impossible to simulate climbing, because it is level.
Also out of saddle puts a great strain on the bike frame.

Finally it is vert very hot and boring, so you need a BIG fan.

A rowing ERGO is a good training tool for fitness, but is not very sensitive to technique. i.e. you can get away with errors that would make you a slow rower, even though you are fit. This will be especially true in a sweep-oared boat.

oldagepensioner

Original Poster:

40 posts

8 months

Tuesday 2nd August
quotequote all
MrTrilby said:
oldagepensioner said:
As far as shared paths go whilst not ideal from ether a pedestrian or cyclists point of view they are normally fairly wide and clearly marked and surely a better bet than sharing the road with any thing from motorcycles to 44 tonne trucks 8 wheelers and everything in between.
No, they’re not a better bet. It doesn’t sound like you’ve used many cycle paths much?

The number of shared use paths that are wide enough to let two cycles and a pedestrian pass is tiny. The number that are wide enough that don’t force cycles to stop frequently and give way to blind driveways or side roads is tinier still - and in my experience cycle paths with driveways crossing them are plain dangerous - most cars think nothing of sticking their nose out of their driveway and across the path/cycleway *before* looking. Which is avoidable if you’re travelling at walking speed. Very much not at 15mph.

Then take that tiny number of suitable cycle paths and cross off the list those that make it hard to join or leave and you have very very few paths. Most are very poorly designed in the UK - they’re built using limited cash and time, so usually when the planners reach a tricky junction that needs remodelling or some thought to make it work, the path just stops. And the cyclist is expected to come to a stop again and work out how to rejoin the road. Or do daft stuff like navigate a roundabout by having to stop at every turning and wait for the pedestrian crossing to go green before continuing. I’ve used a cycle path that expected you to do that 6 times. Or stay in the road and experience a two sets of lights with the cars.

It shouldn’t really be a surprise that more experienced cyclists are wary of most cycle paths.
Do admit that there are not many around here and i haven,t used one for a very long time but so far i have not seen any with crossing driveways but i st feel that they must be better than the gutter which is what seems to pass for a cycle path around here with all the potential punctures due to all the crap thrown there by other vehicles.

gangzoom

4,849 posts

195 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
oldagepensioner said:
Over the past week i have been driving at night and 4 times i came across cyclists at night without lights 2 of whom i nearly ran over because they were unseen until the last moment.
1+1=4?

Because of this thread (and some rain random showers on the way to work this week), I've refitted one (normally have 3) of lights to the commuter bike. Have to run if on 'max' power during the day as the weather seems to change from sun/rain within in minutes so to be seen it really does need to be bright, hope that makes up for some cyclists not having lights a night smile.


giantdefy

648 posts

93 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
gangzoom said:
Have to run if on 'max' power during the day as the weather seems to change from sun/rain within in minutes so to be seen it really does need to be bright, hope that makes up for some cyclists not having lights a night smile.
But, that's far too bright /s

Exoticlover

162 posts

1 month

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
Isnt there a single PH member who is a cyclist and admits their reason for cycling in black without lights at night?

Gweeds

2,488 posts

32 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
I can’t imagine a world in which I’d ride at night without them.

The same world in which I wouldn’t drive my car at night without them.


Gin and Ultrasonic

130 posts

19 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
saaby93 said:
smn159 said:
saaby93 said:
Are bikes the only ones that do time trials on public roads?
Joggers?
Firstly they haven't been called joggers since the 1980's and secondly a cursory glance at Google will confirm that road races for runners take place pretty much every week
random google
https://www.verywellfit.com/difference-between-run...
Do you personally do any exercise type activity ?
Have we had an answer to this yet?

What The Deuces

205 posts

4 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
Gin and Ultrasonic said:
J4CKO said:
saaby93 said:
smn159 said:
saaby93 said:
Are bikes the only ones that do time trials on public roads?
Joggers?
Firstly they haven't been called joggers since the 1980's and secondly a cursory glance at Google will confirm that road races for runners take place pretty much every week
random google
https://www.verywellfit.com/difference-between-run...
Do you personally do any exercise type activity ?
Have we had an answer to this yet?
He will just answer with an opposing deflector such as "well, do YOU do any exercise?" Nothing of any value to contribute as always but good for a laugh to see how long he goes before he wraps himself in knots

Exoticlover

162 posts

1 month

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
Exoticlover said:
Isnt there a single PH member who is a cyclist and admits their reason for cycling in black without lights at night?
Nobody?

Ok I admit it.

J4CKO

37,001 posts

180 months

Wednesday 3rd August
quotequote all
Gin and Ultrasonic said:
J4CKO said:
saaby93 said:
smn159 said:
saaby93 said:
Are bikes the only ones that do time trials on public roads?
Joggers?
Firstly they haven't been called joggers since the 1980's and secondly a cursory glance at Google will confirm that road races for runners take place pretty much every week
random google
https://www.verywellfit.com/difference-between-run...
Do you personally do any exercise type activity ?
Have we had an answer to this yet?
No, not expecting one, it kind of confirms my thoughts on the matter though.

911hope

115 posts

6 months

Thursday
quotequote all
oldagepensioner said:
Do admit that there are not many around here and i haven,t used one for a very long time but so far i have not seen any with crossing driveways but i st feel that they must be better than the gutter which is what seems to pass for a cycle path around here with all the potential punctures due to all the crap thrown there by other vehicles.
Why do you want cyclists to use the gutter?

oldagepensioner

Original Poster:

40 posts

8 months

911hope said:
oldagepensioner said:
Do admit that there are not many around here and i haven,t used one for a very long time but so far i have not seen any with crossing driveways but i st feel that they must be better than the gutter which is what seems to pass for a cycle path around here with all the potential punctures due to all the crap thrown there by other vehicles.
Why do you want cyclists to use the gutter?
Most of the cycle paths in my area are relatively new especially the shared ones and these do seem to be fairly wide and properly marked and surfaced.However the majority of them are the previously mentioned gutters about a metre wide if you are lucky.If this is what passes for a cycle path as it does in my area then by all means use the road as i do try and give cyclists a wide berth.I do admit that since my own bike got crushed even though it was locked to a cycle rack? i doubt if i will get another one but i wish all cyclist out there a safe journey all i ask is that they make themselves more visible at night for every ones benefit.Ride long and safe

CheesecakeRunner

1,843 posts

71 months

Exoticlover said:
Isnt there a single PH member who is a cyclist and admits their reason for cycling in black without lights at night?
I only do it when I have Milk Tray to deliver.