RE: Audi A1 quattro vs. Toyota GR Yaris
Discussion
so you have guessed, the GR shares is not a Yaris platform, its bespoke, and doesn't have "likely" many parts,
You should be a news journalist with the "doubt", "likely", the GR has been out long enough now for people to know what it is exactly, and its not a standard Yaris thats been breathed on.
You should be a news journalist with the "doubt", "likely", the GR has been out long enough now for people to know what it is exactly, and its not a standard Yaris thats been breathed on.
EpsomJames said:
I haven't driven either, but doubt the GR Yaris is "leagues ahead" and "runs rings around" the A1 Quattro and I'm not sure the article alludes to that either. A better drive, yes I'm sure of it, but if t wasn't then Toyota would have missed their design objective.
Also, can it be a "ground up design" when it shares the same platform as the standard Yaris (plus likely many other parts), albeit with a back end from another shared platform to incorporate the 4WD system? I would think the amount of work that went into both A1 Quattro and GR Yaris over their standard counterparts are comparable.
Also, can it be a "ground up design" when it shares the same platform as the standard Yaris (plus likely many other parts), albeit with a back end from another shared platform to incorporate the 4WD system? I would think the amount of work that went into both A1 Quattro and GR Yaris over their standard counterparts are comparable.
Vickers_VC10 said:
Nubiann said:
When the Toyota is crushed into a small square of recyclable gumph, it will be the A1 that will stand the test of posterity, and is preserved as an automotive Icon for what it stands for and how good it was a full decade before Toyota caught up. For that reason it gets my vote and my cash if I could buy either.
Cringe.Lot of fanboys out there today
Jon_S_Rally said:
I think a little caution is required around the homologation issue.
Homologation is merely getting the approval from some body and in motorsport certain classes require certain things to be in place to conform. Don't get too excited - no one is claiming that the GR Yaris is of the same stature as a CLK GTR. Besides, a lot of the homologation cars built over the years have the same relevance to the cars upon which they're based as the GR Yaris does. A lot are even closer to the production cars upon which they're based than the GR Yaris is.SuperSonicSloth said:
A lot of people seem to have this idea that the German stuff is genuinely better engineered than anything else out there. I struggle to understand it too. They certainly know how to make a fancy interior - perhaps as that's the first thing a lot of people notice, they assume the same difference runs right through the product?
This is a constant battle! Esp with the image conscious. Porsche would be the only German brand I would want to consider.Jon_S_Rally said:
Are you American? It's not the 1950s anymore. Cars don't need loads of cylinders and capacity to go fast anymore. It just means more weight and less efficiency.
This is definitely something that I have struggled with over the more recent years to be honest. I blame my Dad because he had a 1979 V8 5.0 Mustang back in 1980 when I was only 7 years old. So I've always struggled to get my head around cars with such small capacity and hardly any cylinders to be fair. Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Tuesday 9th August 08:18
The reality is that the Mustang only had 140bhp though...and that is hardly enough power to get up a steep hill nowadays!
cerb4.5lee said:
This is definitely something that I have struggled with over the more recent years to be honest. I blame my Dad because he had a 1979 V8 5.0 Mustang back in 1980 when I was only 7 years old. So I've always struggled to get my head around cars with such small capacity and hardly any cylinders to be fair.
The reality is that the Mustang only had 140bhp though...and that is hardly enough power to get up a steep hill nowadays!
That's it. Times have changed a lot and, in reality, small turbocharged engines make way more sense in most cases. The only problem I have with a lot of modern stuff is that it's now become so effective that it's often quite dull. Turbocharged cars used to be exciting, but we've lost a lot of that in recent years and many modern turbo petrols drive more like turbo diesels, with a super strong mid-range, but not much at the top end. Makes sense for most drivers of course, but not so much fun as a boosty old Cosworth or similar. The reality is that the Mustang only had 140bhp though...and that is hardly enough power to get up a steep hill nowadays!
I think a lot of the little turbo triples are great though. I had one in a Pug 2008 hire car recently and, while it was certainly no sports car, it felt surprisingly peppy and had a nice little thrum to it. In a regular 208 and with a bit of tuning, I imagine it would be a riot.
blade7 said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
Are you American? It's not the 1950s anymore. Cars don't need loads of cylinders and capacity to go fast anymore. It just means more weight and less efficiency.
4 is a load of cylinders?3 makes enough power and if you are turbo charging it then 3 is actually better than 4.
Leon R said:
blade7 said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
Are you American? It's not the 1950s anymore. Cars don't need loads of cylinders and capacity to go fast anymore. It just means more weight and less efficiency.
4 is a load of cylinders?3 makes enough power and if you are turbo charging it then 3 is actually better than 4.
rodericb said:
Homologation is merely getting the approval from some body and in motorsport certain classes require certain things to be in place to conform. Don't get too excited - no one is claiming that the GR Yaris is of the same stature as a CLK GTR. Besides, a lot of the homologation cars built over the years have the same relevance to the cars upon which they're based as the GR Yaris does. A lot are even closer to the production cars upon which they're based than the GR Yaris is.
I know what homologation is Plenty have made a lot of the Yaris being a "homologation special", hence my comments.blade7 said:
4 is a load of cylinders?
How would it being a four-cylinder make it better? It's not like it's short of grunt, or the engine is weak (some tuners have seen up to 500bhp without taking the engine apart). Arguing for more cylinders "just because" doesn't really make any sense.Jon_S_Rally said:
I know what homologation is Plenty have made a lot of the Yaris being a "homologation special", hence my comments.
But it is a homologation car, wether it competed is kind of irrelevant the reason it was designed and existed was for that purpose. The fact in this case covid stopped it from it’s designed purpose doesn’t mean it wasn’t a homologation car. Plenty have made a lot of the Yaris being a "homologation special", hence my comments.Toyota we’re very clear it was the body shell they wanted to enable more aero, Tommi Mäkinen actually wanted no rear seats and a more extreme roof line.
Edited by ecsrobin on Wednesday 10th August 07:33
Jon_S_Rally said:
How would it being a four-cylinder make it better? It's not like it's short of grunt, or the engine is weak (some tuners have seen up to 500bhp without taking the engine apart). Arguing for more cylinders "just because" doesn't really make any sense.
Plenty of car buying choices "don't make sense" and are made "just because", and it's those differing choices that makes us individuals. And an excellent illustration of those differing choices are your comments on the 3 pot motor in the Peugeot making "a nice thrum". Oxymoron alert !That thrum may be pleasing to your senses, but to mine it's nothing more than an obnoxious assault, primarily aurally, but also to any and every part of me that's in contact with the car. It is in no way mellifluous, on the contrary, it's merely the hallmark of cost cutting and mechanical efficiency in the name of reduced fuel consumption, which whilst laudable in itself, is an ideology driven by a few misguided individuals.
I'll nail my colours to the mast here and now, I'm not a fan of 3 pot engines, and there's very few modern 4 pot engines that are particularly pleasing or indeed pleasant to use. Sure the old BDA at full chat was a wonderful sounding engine, and for some the thrum of a flat four Subaru engine is likewise, but it's only once you get to Audi's 5 pot engine (specifically that used in the TT RS and RS3) that things improve acoustically.
Pretty much any 6 pot motor, be it a flat six, vee six or straight six will be more mellifluous and smoother, (all are good reasons to prefer them, and have nothing to do with "just because") and once we're into the realms of 8 , 10 and 12 pot motors, well I think they speak for themselves.
If this is "just because" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHgD0wJGcR0&t=...
I think can live with it.
But if this more your thing :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM51c_2G0Xo
fine, but just because you find it in some way appealing doesn't necessarily make it any moreso for others.
Jon_S_Rally said:
I know what homologation is Plenty have made a lot of the Yaris being a "homologation special", hence my comments.
I figured that you did know what it was. The bar on "homologation special" can be pretty low at times but it still makes the car a homologation special. The GR Yaris is a lot more "homologation special" than a lot of the other usual "homologation special" suspects...! Plenty have made a lot of the Yaris being a "homologation special", hence my comments.A lot of people are upset because the GR brilliant, and are determined to prove they're terrible for some reason.
EVO actually ran an article about it, explaining that sometimes, when everyone even half qualified who has actually experienced a thing says it is brilliant without exception, the thing actually is brilliant.
Sorry guys. You're not going to change the mind of those of us who have actually driven it.
EVO actually ran an article about it, explaining that sometimes, when everyone even half qualified who has actually experienced a thing says it is brilliant without exception, the thing actually is brilliant.
Sorry guys. You're not going to change the mind of those of us who have actually driven it.
ecsrobin said:
But it is a homologation car, wether it competed is kind of irrelevant the reason it was designed and existed was for that purpose. The fact in this case covid stopped it from it’s designed purpose doesn’t mean it wasn’t a homologation car.
Toyota we’re very clear it was the body shell they wanted to enable more aero, Tommi Mäkinen actually wanted no rear seats and a more extreme roof line.
Also worth nothing that even though they didn't race it, lessons they learnt from development have been put to use in both the 2021 & 2022 cars. Toyota are dominant in WRC at the moment, you can see how much they invest in development and some of that has made its way into the GRY road car.Toyota we’re very clear it was the body shell they wanted to enable more aero, Tommi Mäkinen actually wanted no rear seats and a more extreme roof line.
Edited by ecsrobin on Wednesday 10th August 07:33
Baldchap said:
A lot of people are upset because the GR brilliant, and are determined to prove they're terrible for some reason.
EVO actually ran an article about it, explaining that sometimes, when everyone even half qualified who has actually experienced a thing says it is brilliant without exception, the thing actually is brilliant.
Sorry guys. You're not going to change the mind of those of us who have actually driven it.
Drove mine again last night for the first time in a few weeks. It really is brilliant.EVO actually ran an article about it, explaining that sometimes, when everyone even half qualified who has actually experienced a thing says it is brilliant without exception, the thing actually is brilliant.
Sorry guys. You're not going to change the mind of those of us who have actually driven it.
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