RE: Steal or no steal | Mid-engined maestros

RE: Steal or no steal | Mid-engined maestros

Author
Discussion

Draxindustries1

1,657 posts

22 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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ephemera said:


Matra Murena, unique, three seater, cheap, light, cheerful, galvanised chassis, GFK body, comes standard with 1.6 or 2.2 engine, or conversions to Peugeot MI16 or Alfa V6.
Three seats abreast, very rare car.
Another one not seen anymore is the Bagheera.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Or, get an MGF for £1500 ?

Are they that bad in comparison ?

DodgyGeezer

40,158 posts

189 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Bencolem said:
Mid-engined sports cars under £20,000 seems a shallow pool to swim in; apart from the Boxster, Elise/VX220 twin, MR2, MGF and the X1/9 what other options are there really to choose from?!

Imported Pontiac Fiero? Ropey Porsche 914? Honda Beat / Autozam AZ-1 Kei car type curios? Kit cars?…
TBH I think that the Fiero isn't too bad looking. Sure the 2.8 V6 is probably only useful as anchor - but it'd be interesting to see if the GNX lump would fit in (to keep it in the family) or even the Jag lump (for a reverse slice of Anglo-American cooperation!) could be a tasty little mover

Zircon93

6 posts

35 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Or for those on a budget that want 208bhp per ton and the same acceleration and a better build quality for half the price of an elise :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115469288278?mkcid=16&a...

Edited by Zircon93 on Saturday 6th August 21:34

Sebastian Tombs

2,044 posts

191 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Remember the MVS Venturi?
The French Lotus Esprit.





matt21

4,285 posts

203 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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I am genuinely interested in that Elise. Wanted one for years. If I go and view it what should I look for?

chrisjeffery1

1 posts

152 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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matt21 said:
I am genuinely interested in that Elise. Wanted one for years. If I go and view it what should I look for?
Head to www.SELOC.org loads of info there, and if you look the seller up whilst there, you’ll see he is an experienced and trusted lotus seller. Had my 111S for 13 years, still makes me smile out loud every time I take it out.

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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I'm glad I read the article before I saw this thread - I had visions of a Maestro 6R4 article!

That Elise looks lovely but the VX200 Turbo even lovelier and possibly even slightly practical. laugh

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
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Disappointed...

Saw the thread title and thought "Oooh, someone's built an Austin Rover based homage to the Clio V6 and stuffed a big V8 into a gutted example of Cowley's finest!"

Frankly an Elise is a bit of a letdown after that

GTRene

16,374 posts

223 months

Saturday 6th August 2022
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
ephemera said:


Matra Murena, unique, three seater, cheap, light, cheerful, galvanised chassis, GFK body, comes standard with 1.6 or 2.2 engine, or conversions to Peugeot MI16 or Alfa V6.
Three seats abreast, very rare car.
Another one not seen anymore is the Bagheera.
I owned both long time ago, first was a Matra Bagheera but it understeered a lot, or you must give it a bit help to get weight on the front helped by swinging the rear a bit.

later I owned such Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 (not the S version) that was better, but was used to more power from other cars, so it felt slow, some change those cars, a special tank in the front and a bigger/faster engine in the middle, I guess you could make something special on a cheap base car, lots for sale some at low prices.

I sadly have no pictures of that black bagheera, but I do still have those of the Talbot Matra Murena


Nickp82

3,165 posts

92 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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J4CKO said:
Or, get an MGF for £1500 ?

Are they that bad in comparison ?
This is it, you can buy a decent F/TF for 10% of the price of the featured cars but they offer a whole lot more than 10% of the driving fun of the other three - 71.4% would be my estimate.

Though perhaps the MG is bettered suited to a thread titled ‘mid-engined Metros’ smile

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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You’re always into diminishing returns with cars, but personally I wouldn’t swap my Elise for 25k and a ropey old MGF.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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otolith said:
You’re always into diminishing returns with cars, but personally I wouldn’t swap my Elise for 25k and a ropey old MGF.
yes The MGF/TF is far better to drive than many of its detractors (I'm guessing most of whom either haven't driven one, or have driven only a knackered one) seem to believe, but it's also some way off an Elise/VX220 or even a mk3 MR2. The F's biggest problem was always its driving position, well that and its build quality, which during some periods of its production made the Elise look like a Rolls Royce. The underlying chassis, like most MG Rover products, was very good by the standards of the market it was competing in (which of course wasn't the same one as the Elise and VX220).

If I was looking for a really cheap sports car, I think the MGTF 160 would be pretty near the top of my list, along with the mk3 MR2 and of course the MX5. However, if I had £20k to spend, none of those three would be on the list.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 7th August 07:37

TrotCanterGallopCharge

420 posts

89 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
quotequote all
kambites said:
otolith said:
You’re always into diminishing returns with cars, but personally I wouldn’t swap my Elise for 25k and a ropey old MGF.
yes The MGF/TF is far better to drive than many of its detractors (I'm guessing most of whom either haven't driven one, or have driven only a knackered one) seem to believe, but it's also some way off an Elise/VX220 or even a mk3 MR2. The F's biggest problem was always its driving position, well that and its build quality, which during some periods of its production made the Elise look like a Rolls Royce. The underlying chassis, like most MG Rover products, was very good by the standards of the market it was competing in (which of course wasn't the same one as the Elise and VX220).

If I was looking for a really cheap sports car, I think the MGTF 160 would be pretty near the top of my list, along with the mk3 MR2 and of course the MX5. However, if I had £20k to spend, none of those three would be on the list.


Saw a MGTF160 at Castle Combe a couple of years back, keeping a couple of Else S1 & S2s honest, all driven spiritedly. I don't believe the Elise were the base powered type. The Elises were slowly drawing away each lap, but considering the weight disadvantage, I was impressed by the MGTF. It was great to see them all being driven as intended though.

MGTF have quite stiff suspension, Trophys got lowered & even stiffer suspension, along with larger brakes I think. Like all cars of the era, you have to look out for rust. They all have a good boot size. Belt changes etc a bit expensive every 5 years, but just the same as Elise 160s etc.

At 6ft 3", the Elise & VX are sadly a no go from the start, they must be brilliant to drive.

Having both a MGTF & Mk3 MR2, it's interesting to see the similarities/differences.

GTM Libra car another option for this thread to.

ColdoRS

1,796 posts

126 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years.
I agree - I don’t follow the market for S1 Elise’s but I imagined them to be much more expensive, surely that is the bottom? Must be safe money there, a bit of fun, too.

Bryans69

248 posts

131 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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Craikeybaby said:
HorneyMX5 said:
No MGF or MR2?
MR2 is as obvious as the Boxster, and it was featured in this column last week. Even then there were complaints that they are featured too often. And MGFs are just rubbish.
I assume your MGF views are based on your extensive ownership experience?

Nickp82 said:
J4CKO said:
Or, get an MGF for £1500 ?

Are they that bad in comparison ?
This is it, you can buy a decent F/TF for 10% of the price of the featured cars but they offer a whole lot more than 10% of the driving fun of the other three - 71.4% would be my estimate.

Though perhaps the MG is bettered suited to a thread titled ‘mid-engined Metros’ smile
Exactly. My wife ran a nearly new MGF for 6 years, and last year I picked up this for £900 quid, currently being used as a daily run about. I'm not under any illusions as to it being comparable to an Elise dynamically, and if I had space / time /budget for a weekend fun car one would be on my list, but the MGF is certainly fun at sensible speeds.

Although it bears no resembles to the horrific MG Turbo Metro I once had, fortunately


bencollins4

1,091 posts

205 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
quotequote all
ColdoRS said:
C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years.
I agree - I don’t follow the market for S1 Elise’s but I imagined them to be much more expensive, surely that is the bottom? Must be safe money there, a bit of fun, too.
If you mean ‘bottom’ as in the lowest they have been, that was about 12/13 years ago, but right now tattiest / highest mileage can be found just over 10k if you’re lucky. The tatty ones can be very expensive to make nice though, so better off spending a bit more to go for a well looked after and used one I think. I don’t see much point in paying big money for one which has sat in a garage all it’s life.

They are still great value for one of the most enjoyable cars to use on the road, while remaining relatively cheap to run and more practical / usable than you Imagine.

chj

763 posts

212 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
quotequote all
ColdoRS said:
C70R said:
Pflanzgarten said:
How are S1 Elise’s still so cheap?
Caught the Intercooler podcast this week, and inclined to agree with them on the Elise. Early, original cars will never be worth less than they are now, and can be used without too much worry over impacting values. Maybe not a sure-fire way to early retirement, but definitely a car that could be cost-neutral over the course of a few years.
I agree - I don’t follow the market for S1 Elise’s but I imagined them to be much more expensive, surely that is the bottom? Must be safe money there, a bit of fun, too.
I nearly bought one 2 years ago but stuck with TVR in the end. Have been keeping an eye on prices and S1 prices went up a lot last year but definitely have dropped back a bit this year. 5 or 6 years ago that car would have been £12k max.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
quotequote all
ColdoRS said:
I agree - I don’t follow the market for S1 Elise’s but I imagined them to be much more expensive, surely that is the bottom? Must be safe money there, a bit of fun, too.
The bottom was about £8-10k about ten years ago, for a usable but slightly ropey car from a private seller - they're creeping up but not particularly quickly.

Draxindustries1

1,657 posts

22 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
quotequote all
GTRene said:
Draxindustries1 said:
ephemera said:


Matra Murena, unique, three seater, cheap, light, cheerful, galvanised chassis, GFK body, comes standard with 1.6 or 2.2 engine, or conversions to Peugeot MI16 or Alfa V6.
Three seats abreast, very rare car.
Another one not seen anymore is the Bagheera.
I owned both long time ago, first was a Matra Bagheera but it understeered a lot, or you must give it a bit help to get weight on the front helped by swinging the rear a bit.

later I owned such Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 (not the S version) that was better, but was used to more power from other cars, so it felt slow, some change those cars, a special tank in the front and a bigger/faster engine in the middle, I guess you could make something special on a cheap base car, lots for sale some at low prices.

I sadly have no pictures of that black bagheera, but I do still have those of the Talbot Matra Murena

Beautiful in green and something very different from the norm..smile