Rural drink-driving

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Discussion

ingenieur

3,992 posts

180 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
biggbn said:
ingenieur said:
What the zero-tolerance authoritarians always fail to point out when they reel off their examples of someone who was terribly killed by a drunk driver is that the vast majority of accidents happen with sober drivers.

The fact that a person has had some alcohol before driving should not result in the automatic assumption that alcohol was the cause. But it always does.

Anyway, that aside... and to the question at the beginning. There was a story of the possibility of a 'pass' for drink driving in rural Ireland some years ago, I don't know if there has been any update since: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/iris...
Why take the chance? The drunk driver will usually be blamed, yeah, but why take a drink and drive and tempt fate? What is so great about needing to have a few drinks that people take a chance with their lives; acceptable though that may be, and the lives of others; which is wholly unacceptable? Does alcohol have such a grip over people they cannot simply do without for one evening?
Isn't it well documented that people drank plenty in Roman times too? You'd think someone would've worked out the answer to your question at some point.

ARHarh

3,701 posts

106 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Driving home in rural Shropshire a few years ago, a car pulled out of a pub car park in front of us forcing us to slow quickly. He made it about 100 yards before ending up in a ditch. Checked if he was OK, said he was fine and would get his wife to come and tow him out. He could barely stand up. I drove off and let the police know there had been an accident.

Jonny TVR

4,533 posts

280 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Its prevalent in many countries in locations where the chance of getting caught is low. I was surprised how common and accepted it was to DD in and around ski resorts for example.

ingenieur

3,992 posts

180 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Gweeds said:
ingenieur said:
What the zero-tolerance authoritarians always fail to point out when they reel off their examples of someone who was terribly killed by a drunk driver is that the vast majority of accidents happen with sober drivers.

The fact that a person has had some alcohol before driving should not result in the automatic assumption that alcohol was the cause. But it always does.

Anyway, that aside... and to the question at the beginning. There was a story of the possibility of a 'pass' for drink driving in rural Ireland some years ago, I don't know if there has been any update since: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/iris...
More than happy to be called an authoritarian.

Just don’t fking do it. The sack of st who killed my friend was over 3 times over the limit.
The name-calling wasn't the important bit and was probably unnecessary. The important bit was that accidents happen all the time, moreso with sober drivers. Sometimes with drunk pedestrians!

Teddy Lop

8,294 posts

66 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
Driver101 said:
Pistom said:
Clearly alcohol must have some impairment but the risk of getting caught is virtually none, the liklihood of causing an accident virtually none so should anyone care?
In 2019 there was 8000 people killed or injured due to drink driving crashes. It dropped to 6500 in 2020. Pubs were closed and people covering less miles. The true figure of the amount of crashes, bumps and scrapes will be massively higher.

Alcohol heavily affects people's reactions and ability. A few drinks and they feel more confident, but don't realise they are impaired. Head along to an A&E department on a weekend evening. The place is full of people having alcohol related accidents.

I don't agree that there is virtually no likelihood of causing an accident.

Thunk thoes numbers are wrong road deaths are like 2000 a year
Deaths are less than that but his figures include injury's

Given the pubs were shut most of the year - and driving itself restricted for many - the fact that by his figures the casualty rate dropped less than 20% is interesting.

Ankh87

602 posts

101 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
I personally think there should be a zero tolerance to alcohol and drugs when driving. I don't care if it doesn't effect you, you still aren't in 100% control of you mind or body.

Issue is there's no way to enforce it unless there's a police officer at every pub or at the end of every street checking people which is impossible.

I don't think rural areas are any worse than urban. I think you notice it more because there's less people or you actually associate with people. When you're in a city you probably don't even know who's driving and who isn't. Whereas the local rural pub you'll know if they are driving or not because it'll be the only car in the car park.

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
Gweeds said:
ingenieur said:
What the zero-tolerance authoritarians always fail to point out when they reel off their examples of someone who was terribly killed by a drunk driver is that the vast majority of accidents happen with sober drivers.

The fact that a person has had some alcohol before driving should not result in the automatic assumption that alcohol was the cause. But it always does.

Anyway, that aside... and to the question at the beginning. There was a story of the possibility of a 'pass' for drink driving in rural Ireland some years ago, I don't know if there has been any update since: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/iris...
More than happy to be called an authoritarian.

Just don’t fking do it. The sack of st who killed my friend was over 3 times over the limit.
The name-calling wasn't the important bit and was probably unnecessary. The important bit was that accidents happen all the time, moreso with sober drivers. Sometimes with drunk pedestrians!
Um, not really.

Yes, more accidents involve sober drivers, but only because there are significantly more sober drivers on the road. But statistically they are less likely to have an accident than someone DD.

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Zetec-S said:
Um, not really.

Yes, more accidents involve sober drivers, but only because there are significantly more sober drivers on the road. But statistically they are less likely to have an accident than someone DD.
I’m amazed that needed pointing out!

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
biggbn said:
ingenieur said:
What the zero-tolerance authoritarians always fail to point out when they reel off their examples of someone who was terribly killed by a drunk driver is that the vast majority of accidents happen with sober drivers.

The fact that a person has had some alcohol before driving should not result in the automatic assumption that alcohol was the cause. But it always does.

Anyway, that aside... and to the question at the beginning. There was a story of the possibility of a 'pass' for drink driving in rural Ireland some years ago, I don't know if there has been any update since: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/iris...
Why take the chance? The drunk driver will usually be blamed, yeah, but why take a drink and drive and tempt fate? What is so great about needing to have a few drinks that people take a chance with their lives; acceptable though that may be, and the lives of others; which is wholly unacceptable? Does alcohol have such a grip over people they cannot simply do without for one evening?
Isn't it well documented that people drank plenty in Roman times too? You'd think someone would've worked out the answer to your question at some point.
Sorry, I don't understand your point?

ingenieur

3,992 posts

180 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Zetec-S said:
ingenieur said:
Gweeds said:
ingenieur said:
What the zero-tolerance authoritarians always fail to point out when they reel off their examples of someone who was terribly killed by a drunk driver is that the vast majority of accidents happen with sober drivers.

The fact that a person has had some alcohol before driving should not result in the automatic assumption that alcohol was the cause. But it always does.

Anyway, that aside... and to the question at the beginning. There was a story of the possibility of a 'pass' for drink driving in rural Ireland some years ago, I don't know if there has been any update since: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/iris...
More than happy to be called an authoritarian.

Just don’t fking do it. The sack of st who killed my friend was over 3 times over the limit.
The name-calling wasn't the important bit and was probably unnecessary. The important bit was that accidents happen all the time, moreso with sober drivers. Sometimes with drunk pedestrians!
Um, not really.

Yes, more accidents involve sober drivers, but only because there are significantly more sober drivers on the road. But statistically they are less likely to have an accident than someone DD.
I don't think you've got the figures for that?

You'd have to know of all the people who were over the limit while driving for a given period and how many of them injured a pedestrian while over the limit. I doubt whether there are any stats for that.

deckster

9,630 posts

254 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
I don't think you've got the figures for that?

You'd have to know of all the people who were over the limit while driving for a given period and how many of them injured a pedestrian while over the limit. I doubt whether there are any stats for that.
Are you seriously arguing that consuming alcohol doesn't increase your chances of having an accident?

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
I don't think you've got the figures for that?

You'd have to know of all the people who were over the limit while driving for a given period and how many of them injured a pedestrian while over the limit. I doubt whether there are any stats for that.
If you're going down that path, then what figures do you have to support this statement?

ingenieur said:
The important bit was that accidents happen all the time, moreso with sober drivers.

ingenieur

3,992 posts

180 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
deckster said:
ingenieur said:
I don't think you've got the figures for that?

You'd have to know of all the people who were over the limit while driving for a given period and how many of them injured a pedestrian while over the limit. I doubt whether there are any stats for that.
Are you seriously arguing that consuming alcohol doesn't increase your chances of having an accident?
No, I'm arguing that there isn't any evidence to prove it either way. I'm not making that claim but neither am I accepting the opposite without some evidence.

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

169 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Scabutz said:
Years and years ago I worked in a restaurant that was in a rural location. It was part of a zoo, but at Christmas it would have quite decent parties for the local well to do people. Most of them would come, get stfaced, and drive home.
Animals

LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
It's double jeopardy in many places, alcohol and cannabis that the younger generation like to light up at the slightest chance.
It's rather more obvious because it stinks.
For the most part, most of the people I know are more responsible, mainly as they can't afford cars so have to use the bus.

deckster

9,630 posts

254 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
ingenieur said:
No, I'm arguing that there isn't any evidence to prove it either way. I'm not making that claim but neither am I accepting the opposite without some evidence.
Pretty sure you're trolling. But just in case...there is a huge amount of research. It's absolutely beyond question. https://www.google.com/search?q=does+alcohol+affec...

LotusOmega375D

7,580 posts

152 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
I live next to a pub car park in a fairly rural area. I see drunk and drug drivers departing there on an almost daily basis. Most of them are geezers in their 30s, so not teenagers or old codgers. I have lived there for 17 years and have never seen a police car waiting down the road to catch them. In the past I have occasionally reported the worst offenders to the Police, but of course they’ve long since disappeared by the time the complaint gets even looked at. Occasionally one or two of the offenders will have an accident and kill themselves and their passengers and there’ll be an outpouring of local grief. It’s just a never-ending rite of passage in our little town.

Speed addicted

5,561 posts

226 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Ankh87 said:
I personally think there should be a zero tolerance to alcohol and drugs when driving. I don't care if it doesn't effect you, you still aren't in 100% control of you mind or body.

Issue is there's no way to enforce it unless there's a police officer at every pub or at the end of every street checking people which is impossible.

I don't think rural areas are any worse than urban. I think you notice it more because there's less people or you actually associate with people. When you're in a city you probably don't even know who's driving and who isn't. Whereas the local rural pub you'll know if they are driving or not because it'll be the only car in the car park.
If you're not 100% in control then the substance is affecting you. Issue with zero tolerance is that you could have some trifle or anything else that would cause issues, have a small amount of alcohol in your blood that doesn't change anything and get done. I think it's a sensible tolerance.
As for the only car in the car park, rural pub car parks are often packed.

I don't drink and drive at all. The Scottish limit is half the English one so you do need to be quite careful, and to me it's just not worth the risk for one pint (obviously 9 pints is also a bad idea).
.

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
Speed addicted said:
Ankh87 said:
I personally think there should be a zero tolerance to alcohol and drugs when driving. I don't care if it doesn't effect you, you still aren't in 100% control of you mind or body.

Issue is there's no way to enforce it unless there's a police officer at every pub or at the end of every street checking people which is impossible.

I don't think rural areas are any worse than urban. I think you notice it more because there's less people or you actually associate with people. When you're in a city you probably don't even know who's driving and who isn't. Whereas the local rural pub you'll know if they are driving or not because it'll be the only car in the car park.
If you're not 100% in control then the substance is affecting you. Issue with zero tolerance is that you could have some trifle or anything else that would cause issues, have a small amount of alcohol in your blood that doesn't change anything and get done. I think it's a sensible tolerance.
As for the only car in the car park, rural pub car parks are often packed.

I don't drink and drive at all. The Scottish limit is half the English one so you do need to be quite careful, and to me it's just not worth the risk for one pint (obviously 9 pints is also a bad idea).
.
Not even one pint in Scotland.

Plymo

1,149 posts

88 months

Wednesday 10th August 2022
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Speed addicted said:
Ankh87 said:
I personally think there should be a zero tolerance to alcohol and drugs when driving. I don't care if it doesn't effect you, you still aren't in 100% control of you mind or body.

Issue is there's no way to enforce it unless there's a police officer at every pub or at the end of every street checking people which is impossible.

I don't think rural areas are any worse than urban. I think you notice it more because there's less people or you actually associate with people. When you're in a city you probably don't even know who's driving and who isn't. Whereas the local rural pub you'll know if they are driving or not because it'll be the only car in the car park.
If you're not 100% in control then the substance is affecting you. Issue with zero tolerance is that you could have some trifle or anything else that would cause issues, have a small amount of alcohol in your blood that doesn't change anything and get done. I think it's a sensible tolerance.
As for the only car in the car park, rural pub car parks are often packed.

I don't drink and drive at all. The Scottish limit is half the English one so you do need to be quite careful, and to me it's just not worth the risk for one pint (obviously 9 pints is also a bad idea).
.
Not even one pint in Scotland.
And yet it doesn't seem to make much difference - I would wager the amount of drink-related crashes where the driver was between the two limits is very small.
And it didn't stop someone I know getting banned for being 4x the limit recently...