Timing belt failure just out of warranty
Discussion
Any advice on how to approach this would be welcome.
Audi A3 1.6 diesel, 50k miles, 19 plate, just out of warranty. Bought from main dealer a year old and has full Audi history.
Car has made a light tapping noise when cold for last couple of days, intermittent and only noticeable with the window down.
This morning, engine management light came on amber, with a message that "Start Stop system not functioning".
Went to Audi dealer, got as far as receptionist who said no mechanic staff were available to advise me, and said that I could either leave the car all day for diagnostics, or book it in later. Said that amber warning light is ok to drive, just don't do anything long distance.
This afternoon, complete loss of power, car dead, recovery called, tells me that timing belt has failed.
Car recovered to Audi. Have yet to discover whether we are talking about a new belt or major engine damage (dealer said they've only seen this twice, once they just had to replace belt, the other major damage to cylinder head).
A timing belt shouldn't be failing on a 19-plate 50k car, and if this morning's visit had allowed me to speak with someone qualified (car dealer maintains that the receptionist gave the correct advice for an amber light) they might have identified the issue before it failed and caused any damage.
What conversations do I need to have and with who? Audi central because a 50k 19-plate car shouldn't have a timing belt failure? Dealer could definitely have dealt with this better this morning?
What is the worst that could happen in terms of cost? What could cause this to happen - anything they might throw back at me - have not abused the car in any way!
Audi A3 1.6 diesel, 50k miles, 19 plate, just out of warranty. Bought from main dealer a year old and has full Audi history.
Car has made a light tapping noise when cold for last couple of days, intermittent and only noticeable with the window down.
This morning, engine management light came on amber, with a message that "Start Stop system not functioning".
Went to Audi dealer, got as far as receptionist who said no mechanic staff were available to advise me, and said that I could either leave the car all day for diagnostics, or book it in later. Said that amber warning light is ok to drive, just don't do anything long distance.
This afternoon, complete loss of power, car dead, recovery called, tells me that timing belt has failed.
Car recovered to Audi. Have yet to discover whether we are talking about a new belt or major engine damage (dealer said they've only seen this twice, once they just had to replace belt, the other major damage to cylinder head).
A timing belt shouldn't be failing on a 19-plate 50k car, and if this morning's visit had allowed me to speak with someone qualified (car dealer maintains that the receptionist gave the correct advice for an amber light) they might have identified the issue before it failed and caused any damage.
What conversations do I need to have and with who? Audi central because a 50k 19-plate car shouldn't have a timing belt failure? Dealer could definitely have dealt with this better this morning?
What is the worst that could happen in terms of cost? What could cause this to happen - anything they might throw back at me - have not abused the car in any way!
littleruss said:
Car has made a light tapping noise when cold for last couple of days, intermittent and only noticeable with the window down.
Could be the belt de-laminating and flapping. Did you open the bonnet to investigate the source of the noise? Obviously you won't get a warning light until the whole thing lets go, but once you've got a warning light you've got a warning light.Depending on the engine (I don't know the ins and outs of your car) a broken belt may or may not be a big deal. If i had to bet on it I'd say "not", but that's just a guess. Could be nothing more than a flat battery once alternator lost drive.
littleruss said:
Official belt change is 120k / 5 years according to the dealer today, so nowhere even close.
OK - so not a lifetime part, but an early fail. What's the dealer's position?
I guess they need to see what the damage is and then talk to Audi UK about a possible contribution?
littleruss said:
This morning, engine management light came on amber, with a message that "Start Stop system not functioning".
Went to Audi dealer, got as far as receptionist who said no mechanic staff were available to advise me, and said that I could either leave the car all day for diagnostics, or book it in later. Said that amber warning light is ok to drive, just don't do anything long distance.
Not familiar with this particular engine, but this makes little sense. I can't see how you have a warning light prior to cam belt failure.Went to Audi dealer, got as far as receptionist who said no mechanic staff were available to advise me, and said that I could either leave the car all day for diagnostics, or book it in later. Said that amber warning light is ok to drive, just don't do anything long distance.
If I had to guess, I would think that the alternator belt has failed... a failure to charge then triggering the start stop inoperative message. The alternator belt has then legged-up the cam belt and then it is game over.
If this 'guess' is correct, then it is very bad advice from the dealer that it would be okay to drive if not going far.
As I say, not familiar with this engine - does it look possible to rag the belt off with alternator/water pump belt failure? Is the cam belt under a seperate cover?
Yes, timing belt. Recovery moved cap and said there was no tension in it and it had moved off the teeth.
Engine running, nothing happening on accelerator on 50mph stretch. Stopped at lights, engine idled as normal, but wouldn't pull away. Car restarts, idles for 2-3 seconds, then cuts out again.
Engine running, nothing happening on accelerator on 50mph stretch. Stopped at lights, engine idled as normal, but wouldn't pull away. Car restarts, idles for 2-3 seconds, then cuts out again.
gazza285 said:
Panamax said:
Did you open the bonnet to investigate the source of the noise?
There's not much to see under the bonnet, just a massive plastic engine cover...If the belt has snapped it would at the minimum bent at least four valves. This requires the cylinder head off for repair. There are other possibilities other than the belt delamination though. One is camshaft failure and another is auxillary belt snapping caused by a seized idler or tensioner pulley which in turn let's the flailing belt to get caught up under the cam cover taking out the timing belt.
You won't know the exact cause until the cam cover is off.
The cambelt is a wearing service item so are the other parts mentioned it's out of warranty , Audi won't want to know unfortunately..
I think you need to wait for an estimate to repair from the dealer.
If it just needs a new belt then probably have to pay, car is out of warranty so part failures are on you even if prior to expected lifespan.
If it's a lot worse than that, then I'd be asking the dealer to ask Audi to cover all/most of the cost of repair. But cross that bridge when you come to it.
If it just needs a new belt then probably have to pay, car is out of warranty so part failures are on you even if prior to expected lifespan.
If it's a lot worse than that, then I'd be asking the dealer to ask Audi to cover all/most of the cost of repair. But cross that bridge when you come to it.
littleruss said:
Yes, timing belt. Recovery moved cap and said there was no tension in it and it had moved off the teeth.
Engine running, nothing happening on accelerator on 50mph stretch. Stopped at lights, engine idled as normal, but wouldn't pull away. Car restarts, idles for 2-3 seconds, then cuts out again.
So, the timing belt hasn't failed.Engine running, nothing happening on accelerator on 50mph stretch. Stopped at lights, engine idled as normal, but wouldn't pull away. Car restarts, idles for 2-3 seconds, then cuts out again.
But, do not try and start it. Don't let the recovery people try either.
Tensioner failure maybe, which has allowed it to jump some teeth.
Stopping messing now may save you from bent valves.
ETA: My money is still on alternator belt failing and getting caught up in the cam belt. Though I understand the yellow warning light is okay - carry on idea - it really is stunningly bad advice from a dealer, particularly when you had presented it to them.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Tuesday 9th August 21:24
I bought a 2011 Audi A3 with 150k privately which did the same thing the day of buying it, completely destroyed the internals of the engine and block.
Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
Bobton125 said:
I bought a 2011 Audi A3 with 150k privately which did the same thing the day of buying it, completely destroyed the internals of the engine and block.
Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
I thought it was caveat emptor when purchasing from a private individual, unless the car was misdescribed?Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
Bobton125 said:
I bought a 2011 Audi A3 with 150k privately which did the same thing the day of buying it, completely destroyed the internals of the engine and block.
Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
Private seller? Poor bugger. Tried coming to an agreement with the seller two or three times before warning him to take it to court.
Spent £300 on court fees (as claim was under £10k) put my evidence together of the car being described for sale and the story of its breakdown.
Judge ruled in my favour as in his words even a car of that age should be expected to last longer than that mileage! Seller was ordered to pay the price of the car, court fees and interest. And to also arrange collection to take away the undriveable paperweight.
Moral of the story - anything is possible with taking the correct steps!
First step would be to try to mediate with the dealer first and let them know what you want to happen.
I’d advise to keep a record of everything! Correspondence, times of events, phonecalls, pictures as you never know how far this can go, as per my fiasco
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff