RE: Unforced induction into wagon theory | PH Footnote

[Water Fairy]

Wildcat45 said:

Buy it, drive it, service it properly and it’ll probably last you 15 years.

That’s what I did with my Mazda CX-7. It outlasted a new Freelander and 3 Discovery Sports. All bought as replacements, but we always found an excuse to keep the Mazda.

I don’t know f you can fairly judge a brand by the ownership of one car, but Mazdas appear to be utterly reliable. A relative had a new 323 in 1980 that lived a long life into the 1990s, with similar reliability.

A turbo would make the 6 a really attractive prospect.

Looked after properly I would be very disappointed if all I got was 15 years tbh. 20 years, 200k and going as strong as ever in my E46 shed currently.

[ZX10R NIN]

The 2.5 engine is the pick for this car the 2.0 should be left with the Mazda3.

[Groaver]

Water Fairy said:

Wow! You've inspected them all? Well done.

To be fair, we've had a 2, 6 and Mx-5 (nd). All purchased new.
They all had/have rust present.
I had my MX-5 undersealed last year with a check this weekend.
The owner of the company said he has had brand new ones in with surface rust on suspension already. He said he was recently treating a 2016 MX-5 that is rotten underneath.
Mazda really isn't good in this department. It's a shame as they are good drivers.

[pquinn]

satfinal said:

Number 1 rule of estate design, do not do this



Do this (flat opening to the boot, and more square opening)

Small boot openings and a sloping roof because it 'looks better' are the bane of lots of modern estates. When the decisions are made usually practicality gets compromised for styling, which seems a shame for the version you buy because it's practical.

[ChocolateFrog]

Water Fairy said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Shame it'll be rotten underneath before it's 10th birthday like all Mazda's.

Wow! You've inspected them all? Well done.

Enough to know it's marque specific and not car specific.

[virtualmark]

ChocolateFrog said:

mersontheperson said:

mrclav said:

mersontheperson said:

Strange that the article doesn’t mention that in Japan the car is offered with the 2.5 liter turbo with 230ps

So if you want a turbo estate you can have one

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 18th September 07:50

I guess that this being a UK site, talking about a Japan only model means UK readers can't have one if they want.

You can’t get a Corolla GR either, but there is articles about that car and loads of others that you can’t buy in the UK.
I think it’s completely relevant to the story of the weakness of a car is an engine option that doesn’t exist here but does in other markets, especially RHD markets

It seems like an odd omission for the UK market which likes more powerful options.

Guessing it would be in a high VED bracket (or whatever we're calling car tax this week).

As others have said, Mazda do offer the Mazda 6 with a 2.5 litre turbo. Here in New Zealand for example ... https://www.mazda.co.nz/cars/mazda6/#performance

So it seems to be Mazda UK, likely for tax reasons, that are restricting the range to just the normally aspirated engines.

We (Australia, NZ) also get the Mazda CX-9, which is a 7-seat SUV the same size as the Q7 and XC90. Very popular over here. Admittedly we have more space on our roads, but if Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Mercedes, Volvo etc can all see their way to offering a car that size in the UK I'm surprised Mazda UK can't.

[tgrobbo]

I have the 2.0 in my CX5 and it was very boring and gutless until I added a Corksport Short Ram Intake and an ‘axle back’ muffler. Just gave it that little bit more noise and noticeable power to make it fun. The stock intake system is extremely restricted. I’ve also found premium fuel makes a noticeable difference.

[FA57REN]

Matt_T said:

Can anyone tell me the thinking behind Mazda's Sky Active engines (NA 4 cylinders) when other maufactureres were going to turbos for everything? Was it to make an engine that worked in all markets, reduce costs by nit having a turbo?

Mazda believes that small turbo engines are just a way to meet emissions targets and aren't actually useful in everyday driving.

"Drive in a lower gear" is their advice.

[mersontheperson]

virtualmark said:

ChocolateFrog said:

mersontheperson said:

mrclav said:

mersontheperson said:

Strange that the article doesn’t mention that in Japan the car is offered with the 2.5 liter turbo with 230ps

So if you want a turbo estate you can have one

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 18th September 07:50

I guess that this being a UK site, talking about a Japan only model means UK readers can't have one if they want.

You can’t get a Corolla GR either, but there is articles about that car and loads of others that you can’t buy in the UK.
I think it’s completely relevant to the story of the weakness of a car is an engine option that doesn’t exist here but does in other markets, especially RHD markets

It seems like an odd omission for the UK market which likes more powerful options.

Guessing it would be in a high VED bracket (or whatever we're calling car tax this week).

As others have said, Mazda do offer the Mazda 6 with a 2.5 litre turbo. Here in New Zealand for example ... https://www.mazda.co.nz/cars/mazda6/#performance

So it seems to be Mazda UK, likely for tax reasons, that are restricting the range to just the normally aspirated engines.

We (Australia, NZ) also get the Mazda CX-9, which is a 7-seat SUV the same size as the Q7 and XC90. Very popular over here. Admittedly we have more space on our roads, but if Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Mercedes, Volvo etc can all see their way to offering a car that size in the UK I'm surprised Mazda UK can't.

For a while I have been considering the CX-8, based on the CX-5 but elongated that you can have with 6 or 7 seats also with the option of the turbo engine. They don’t offer the CX-9 in Japan, all a bit strange. ANZ seems to get so many more of the better JDM stuff, I am trying to sell a Nissan Leopard Turbo here, and nobody knows what it is or are the slightly bit interested

[Jon_S_Rally]

FA57REN said:

Mazda believes that small turbo engines are just a way to meet emissions targets and aren't actually useful in everyday driving.

"Drive in a lower gear" is their advice.

Mazda are wrong It might be a reasonable target in a sports car, but not an estate.

[JAMSXR]

plfrench said:

The sooner more manufacturers cotton on to making EV estates the better. Perfect match for a practical family car.

They're beginning to come through slowly - obviously there has been the MG5 for a while (although if that's anything like the MG ZS EV I tried, I'd be giving it a wide berth), but this is being joined in the next year or so by an Peugeot e308 SW and fully electric Astra Estate. Obviously, these are both developed on old school platforms that are compromised in terms of packaging due to also needing to accommodate ICE and gearboxes in other variants.

Mazda need to hurry up a bit with their full EV offering - a ground-up 6 Estate could find itself in a pretty rewarding marketplace if they could get one out in the next few years.

EV Range will focus people's minds on aerodynamic efficiency with EVs in a way it was masked with ICE - I suspect this will drive SUVs out of favour and give estates a bit of a resurgence.

This. If Mazda could produce one with a half decent range and a bit of grunt it would be fantastic.

[123RY]

runnerbean 14 said:

Totally agree re too many SUVs on the road. An estate does the job so much more elegantly and sportingly. In my case it's an Audi A4 B9 V6 TDi, Stage 1 chipped to 340 bhp and 500 lb ft. A great mile-muncher which will swallow all sorts of loads. Totally silent inside at 80+ mph with the optional double glazed glass, and 39 mpg overall.

Exactly the same car here, with tune too. Really struggle to think what I'll be able to replace it with. I do a couple drives a year to Czech and back taking stuff each way (plenty of beer on the return). Despite setting the ACC to 90mph in germany, it's never seen under 47mpg on the drive across.

A few people in the thread have mentioned how mazda get the button/screen ratio right. Audi nailed it in the B9.

[Roger Irrelevant]

Matt_T said:

I've driven a few Hondas with the 2.0 petrol (K20 series) and they just don't suit big cars, much more a home in hatchbacks. In big cars you have to rev them and the real-world mpg suffers.

Agreed - I had an Accord Tourer auto with the 2.0 150bhp petrol - not sure if it would have been the K20 but it was a 2003 model if that helps. There was a lot to like about it (really comfy and practical), but the engine just didn't suit it at all. As soon as you encountered a hill (I live in a hilly area), or gave the throttle a moderate prod, it would change down at least two gears and scream its head off. Some PH heroes will say they like that sort of thing but really, if you're just doing day-to-day stuff, it's bloody tiresome. I ended up changing up gears manually a lot, so lost the benefit of an auto, got ste mpg and ste performance!

[virtualmark]

mersontheperson said:

virtualmark said:

ChocolateFrog said:

mersontheperson said:

mrclav said:

mersontheperson said:

Strange that the article doesn’t mention that in Japan the car is offered with the 2.5 liter turbo with 230ps

So if you want a turbo estate you can have one

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 18th September 07:50

I guess that this being a UK site, talking about a Japan only model means UK readers can't have one if they want.

You can’t get a Corolla GR either, but there is articles about that car and loads of others that you can’t buy in the UK.
I think it’s completely relevant to the story of the weakness of a car is an engine option that doesn’t exist here but does in other markets, especially RHD markets

It seems like an odd omission for the UK market which likes more powerful options.

Guessing it would be in a high VED bracket (or whatever we're calling car tax this week).

As others have said, Mazda do offer the Mazda 6 with a 2.5 litre turbo. Here in New Zealand for example ... https://www.mazda.co.nz/cars/mazda6/#performance

So it seems to be Mazda UK, likely for tax reasons, that are restricting the range to just the normally aspirated engines.

We (Australia, NZ) also get the Mazda CX-9, which is a 7-seat SUV the same size as the Q7 and XC90. Very popular over here. Admittedly we have more space on our roads, but if Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Mercedes, Volvo etc can all see their way to offering a car that size in the UK I'm surprised Mazda UK can't.

For a while I have been considering the CX-8, based on the CX-5 but elongated that you can have with 6 or 7 seats also with the option of the turbo engine. They don’t offer the CX-9 in Japan, all a bit strange. ANZ seems to get so many more of the better JDM stuff, I am trying to sell a Nissan Leopard Turbo here, and nobody knows what it is or are the slightly bit interested

Yes, we get the CX-8 as well as the CX-9. I'd guess the sales figures are running at about 10:1 in favour of the CX-9. The CX-9 is a Q7 equivalent, and the CX-8 is a Tiguan Allspace equivalent.

Australia and NZ do get a wider range of Japanese metal. Mainly I think because there's less tax punishments for emissions and so on. So we've got, or are getting, the Nissan Z, the GR Corolla, the GT86/BRZ twins etc. Great roads for them here too - NZ roads are more like Welsh or Scottish roads, but with less traffic.

[xu5]

FA57REN said:

Matt_T said:

Can anyone tell me the thinking behind Mazda's Sky Active engines (NA 4 cylinders) when other maufactureres were going to turbos for everything? Was it to make an engine that worked in all markets, reduce costs by nit having a turbo?

Mazda believes that small turbo engines are just a way to meet emissions targets and aren't actually useful in everyday driving.

"Drive in a lower gear" is their advice.

I remember watching a video Matt Watson of carwow did comparing the Mazda 2 1.5 NA to a fiesta 1.0t where he compared the overtaking prowess of each in 4th gear. Obviously he praised the low down eardge of small turbo but it was pretty a lame point to highlight I thought as anyone that actually knows how to drive would have dropped a gear or two, the Mazda 2 can push 70 in 2nd. I guess being able to drive lazy is a big plus for most even in small fun to drive cars.

Edited by xu5 on Monday 19th September 09:52

[cerb4.5lee]

xu5 said:

FA57REN said:

Matt_T said:

Can anyone tell me the thinking behind Mazda's Sky Active engines (NA 4 cylinders) when other maufactureres were going to turbos for everything? Was it to make an engine that worked in all markets, reduce costs by nit having a turbo?

Mazda believes that small turbo engines are just a way to meet emissions targets and aren't actually useful in everyday driving.

"Drive in a lower gear" is their advice.

I remember watching a video Matt Watson of carwow did comparing the Mazda 2 1.5 NA to a fiesta 1.0t where he compared the overtaking prowess of each in 4th gear. Obviously he praised the low down eardge of small turbo but it was pretty a lame point to highlight I thought as anyone that actually knows how to drive would have dropped a gear or two, the Mazda 2 can push 70 in 2nd. I guess being able to drive lazy is a big plus for most even in small fun to drive cars.

Edited by xu5 on Monday 19th September 09:52

Reading this brings back bad memories for me with my manual E92 M3. The car weighed 1650kg and it had max power at 8300rpm...mated to a fairly modest torque figure as well for me(I'd also been used to turbos and I'd previously had the much lighter Cerbera as well). You were forever dropping down gears for overtakes in it, and because I used it as a daily I found it frustrating rather than rewarding. Give me turbo torque in a daily all day everyday please.

In my experience with the cars I've had...you can only get away with a NA engine if the car is light. Granted there are a few exceptions though, and the C63 with the 6.2 NA V8 is a good example because the engine is torquey as standard.

[nobrakes]

Roger Irrelevant said:

nobrakes said:

satfinal said:

Number 1 rule of estate design, do not do this



Do this (flat opening to the boot, and more square opening)

This^.

Boot lip and non flat folded seats is a fail.

I completely agree. This is the sort of thing that the virtually meaningless boot-size-in-litres figure totally misses when it comes to estate cars. You can have a colossal load volume on paper but if the back seats don't fold flat, the boot aperture is an awkward shape thanks to a swoopy roofline or some other styling feature, the wheel arches intrude into the load bay and there's a big lip down to it, then it's a lot less useful than it could be.

I’m tempted by a CLS shooting brake/estate thing, but the boot lip detail will cause endless awkwardness.

The Mazda does look like a decent motor though.

[Jon_S_Rally]

xu5 said:

I remember watching a video Matt Watson of carwow did comparing the Mazda 2 1.5 NA to a fiesta 1.0t where he compared the overtaking prowess of each in 4th gear. Obviously he praised the low down eardge of small turbo but it was pretty a lame point to highlight I thought as anyone that actually knows how to drive would have dropped a gear or two, the Mazda 2 can push 70 in 2nd. I guess being able to drive lazy is a big plus for most even in small fun to drive cars.

Edited by xu5 on Monday 19th September 09:52

Why does it have to mean being "lazy", or about "knowing how to drive"? We're not talking about a sports car, we're talking about a run-of-the-mill road car.

You don't need to act like a driving god all the time.

[tgrobbo]

[/quote]
…They don’t offer the CX-9 in Japan, all a bit strange…

[/quote]
CX9 is too wide for Japanese regulations. It’s mainly for the American market and thus doesn’t even come in diesel. What is strange is that they even bothered making it in RHD, given it didn’t come to the UK.

[ChocolateFrog]

I do think the red that Mazda do is one of the best reds available.