RE: New 2.0-litre Mercedes-AMG C63 officially unveiled

[TC_off]

Bit disappointed as I thought this could be the one. Was hoping for a bit more pure-electric range for the boring commute and then ability to uncork it with ICE for fun days and weekends. Looks like it won’t do either quite to the level I was hoping. Weight doesn’t bother me but the electric bits make it very heavy with little of the benefit, seems more like a KERS system.

[biggbn]

Dombilano said:

biggbn said:

It would be interesting to know how many of the posters who are complaining about the weight and the four pot would even notice if they drove it and hadn't been told? Would the performance, the 'piped' music and the occasion 'fool' them?

You'd notice the weight the first corner you approached at 70mph

You might, how many really would? The handling of some properly heavy cars is astonishing nowadays.

[Brett748]

It’s a nice looking thing but personally I love my W204 for it’s amazing V8. The noise, vibrations and sound make the car feel special whether it’s dropping my son at nursery, blasting down a dual carriageway or on a track.

I’m sure this one is fast and good to drive but it will always lack the emotional connection to me.

[biggbn]

Brett748 said:

It’s a nice looking thing but personally I love my W204 for it’s amazing V8. The noise, vibrations and sound make the car feel special whether it’s dropping my son at nursery, blasting down a dual carriageway or on a track.

I’m sure this one is fast and good to drive but it will always lack the emotional connection to me.

I am one of the posters who thinks this looks and sounds like it will be great, but your post has made me think, its probably just because I'm not invested in any way in any v8, Merc or not. If I drove some kind of big bore Mercedes I might feel saddened by the shuffling off, and quietly, of the v8s mortal coil. I guess its all about perspective. I drive a diesel Mini so a 680hp car with any amount of cylinders would be a significant step up!!

[ZX10R NIN]

Audi/Alfa/BMW will all be smiling at this choice as their sixes are now more desirable, I'll be very interested to see the sales numbers vs the V8's especially in the US.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

biggbn said:

Brett748 said:

It’s a nice looking thing but personally I love my W204 for it’s amazing V8. The noise, vibrations and sound make the car feel special whether it’s dropping my son at nursery, blasting down a dual carriageway or on a track.

I’m sure this one is fast and good to drive but it will always lack the emotional connection to me.

I am one of the posters who thinks this looks and sounds like it will be great, but your post has made me think, its probably just because I'm not invested in any way in any v8, Merc or not. If I drove some kind of big bore Mercedes I might feel saddened by the shuffling off, and quietly, of the v8s mortal coil. I guess its all about perspective. I drive a diesel Mini so a 680hp car with any amount of cylinders would be a significant step up!!

The biggest learning curve for me regarding engines and character was when my old man sold his BMW E92 M3 and got an F13 M6. The M6 was considerably faster. Any gear, any time, it's rapid. It was also incredibly dull for such a potent unit. Effective, but utterly lacking in "soul" (without wanting to sound too pretentious). When he sold the M6 I didn't miss it at all. He sold the M3 back in 2013. I still miss it greatly. The engine was flawed in many respects, but get it on song, revving all the way to 8400rpm and it was an absolute masterpiece. He has had a few much faster cars since, only the F Type R can raise a similar grin. It isn't all about numbers for me.

I think there's a point when more and more power becomes a little pointless. In reality, 400-500bhp in a car around 1600-1700kgs is more than enough to get you into trouble, and make overtaking plenty easy enough. I'd rather sacrifice 200bhp from this 680bhp C63 and have something with a genuinely enjoyable engine that sounds good. This will sound st if the A45 is anything to go by.

[biggbn]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

biggbn said:

Brett748 said:

It’s a nice looking thing but personally I love my W204 for it’s amazing V8. The noise, vibrations and sound make the car feel special whether it’s dropping my son at nursery, blasting down a dual carriageway or on a track.

I’m sure this one is fast and good to drive but it will always lack the emotional connection to me.

I am one of the posters who thinks this looks and sounds like it will be great, but your post has made me think, its probably just because I'm not invested in any way in any v8, Merc or not. If I drove some kind of big bore Mercedes I might feel saddened by the shuffling off, and quietly, of the v8s mortal coil. I guess its all about perspective. I drive a diesel Mini so a 680hp car with any amount of cylinders would be a significant step up!!

The biggest learning curve for me regarding engines and character was when my old man sold his BMW E92 M3 and got an F13 M6. The M6 was considerably faster. Any gear, any time, it's rapid. It was also incredibly dull for such a potent unit. Effective, but utterly lacking in "soul" (without wanting to sound too pretentious). When he sold the M6 I didn't miss it at all. He sold the M3 back in 2013. I still miss it greatly. The engine was flawed in many respects, but get it on song, revving all the way to 8400rpm and it was an absolute masterpiece. He has had a few much faster cars since, only the F Type R can raise a similar grin. It isn't all about numbers for me.

I think there's a point when more and more power becomes a little pointless. In reality, 400-500bhp in a car around 1600-1700kgs is more than enough to get you into trouble, and make overtaking plenty easy enough. I'd rather sacrifice 200bhp from this 680bhp C63 and have something with a genuinely enjoyable engine that sounds good. This will sound st if the A45 is anything to go by.

I get you, I do, I've owned most engine configurations except a 12 or a 10, but don't really have a favourite, ibdont get hung up on the romance of noise and vibration, in fact you could barely hear or feel the best v8 I owned, an LS400. My old e36 m3 evo yowled when the vanos kicked in, the 928s4 had a strangely uncouth 'cultured nascar' bellow, I've loved all the straight sixes I've owned but suspect my favourite engines are five pots and triples. They have that thrum, that off beat warble that tells you they shouldn't really work so well, they shouldn't really sound so good, but every one I've owned has brought a smile to my face. Oh, and I'd love an A45. It's simply about the grip and go, no subtlety, no finesse, a ballistic limpet. No, I won't get misty eyed at the demise of the v8 or the ICE cone to that, I'm just not attached enough...after over 200 cars maybe I don't keep them long enough for the noise to become a factor, and there might be something in that as the cars I've done the most miles in were old air cooled beetles, smart cars and a tdi beetle cabrio. The sound of those engines still sounds like home to me and makes me feel like I'm going to get there!

[cerb4.5lee]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

The biggest learning curve for me regarding engines and character was when my old man sold his BMW E92 M3 and got an F13 M6. The M6 was considerably faster. Any gear, any time, it's rapid. It was also incredibly dull for such a potent unit. Effective, but utterly lacking in "soul" (without wanting to sound too pretentious). When he sold the M6 I didn't miss it at all. He sold the M3 back in 2013. I still miss it greatly. The engine was flawed in many respects, but get it on song, revving all the way to 8400rpm and it was an absolute masterpiece. He has had a few much faster cars since, only the F Type R can raise a similar grin. It isn't all about numbers for me.

I'm the complete opposite to that. For me the S55 engine in my F82 M4 absolutely wipes the floor with the S65 engine that was in the E92 M3. I appreciate that I'm in a minority of about 1 with that though!

Other than the induction noise...I don't miss the S65 V8 engine in the M3 at all. The S55 is just too good for me. It is torquey, and it still revs and pulls hard at the top of the revs too. It is a best of both worlds engine imo. It is just the noise it makes that lets it down a bit.

[Court_S]

It sounds like an absolute technical tour de force, but I just don’t really want one. It sounds massively complex from a design and operational point of view. You’d have to be a brave man to buy one once they’re out of warranty!

[Court_S]

cerb4.5lee said:

We've definitely lived in a performance car world now for a few years...where the remit is to give the car as much bhp/torque as possible to try to hide the weight.

I don't mind the Top Trumps aspect because I've always liked fast cars, and performance numbers have always interested me too. However I definitely do still struggle with the weight of stuff now though.

I can't believe that this is over 500kg heavier than the already heavy 1600kg F82 M4 that I have now.

And isn’t your M4 less porky than the E92 you had previously? Which wasn’t a bad effort given the M4 is bigger, with more tech etc.

They should have just gone full EV.

[Xenoous]

Anyone else read up to about half way through then realise you just don't care enough about this car to continue? Can't just have been me.

A sad day indeed.

[cerb4.5lee]

Court_S said:

cerb4.5lee said:

We've definitely lived in a performance car world now for a few years...where the remit is to give the car as much bhp/torque as possible to try to hide the weight.

I don't mind the Top Trumps aspect because I've always liked fast cars, and performance numbers have always interested me too. However I definitely do still struggle with the weight of stuff now though.

I can't believe that this is over 500kg heavier than the already heavy 1600kg F82 M4 that I have now.

And isn’t your M4 less porky than the E92 you had previously? Which wasn’t a bad effort given the M4 is bigger, with more tech etc.

They should have just gone full EV.

It is less porky Sam, and that is quite rare for that to happen as you say, because usually the newer generation car gains weight for sure.

[JAMSXR]

Comments insinuating with the right technology you won’t be able to tell the difference between the sound of the V8 or 4 pot.. We might as well just plug ourselves into Metaverse.

Maybe it’s the biker in me, but the nuances between different engine configurations is what gets me exited, even their shortfalls. Light switch performance and artificial sound do noting for me - it was quite obvious even when I drove the w205 facelift V8.

Should have gone full EV in my opinion.

Edited by JAMSXR on Thursday 22 September 22:58

[D4rez]

ZX10R NIN said:

Audi/Alfa/BMW will all be smiling at this choice as their sixes are now more desirable, I'll be very interested to see the sales numbers vs the V8's especially in the US.

It will be short lived, they are all on a glidepath to full electrification, next M3 will likely be an EV for example

[anonymous-user]

biggbn said:

Dombilano said:

biggbn said:

It would be interesting to know how many of the posters who are complaining about the weight and the four pot would even notice if they drove it and hadn't been told? Would the performance, the 'piped' music and the occasion 'fool' them?

You'd notice the weight the first corner you approached at 70mph

You might, how many really would? The handling of some properly heavy cars is astonishing nowadays.

The handling can be incredible, but light cars feel fabulous, however there are probably not many drivers now with a recent memory of what they feel like.

I had a Mercedes S600 with active hydraulic suspension - that car had almost zero pitch and drive and almost no lean in corners, it was supernatural and meant you could carry incredible speeds for a 2.2 ton 5.2m long limo but several times the laws of physics caught up with me and gave me a stern reminder that there is a lot of moving mass to shift around and actually no, you can't go round a 90 degree bend at that speed and prepare to need a new pair of pants.

[Fastdruid]

JAMSXR said:

Comments insinuating with the right technology you won’t be able to tell the difference between the sound of the V8 or 4 pot.. We might as well just plug ourselves into Metaverse.

To be fair, there are 4 pots and 4 pots. Some have had glorious sound tracks, others have been very "meh" but while all very different in sound from a V8 that is only *if* not adulterated.

As to telling the difference from the engine characteristics, I've driven many 4-pots, from bikes, cars, diesels, petrols and some have been a delight, others have been OK and others still annoying and frustrating. Even comparing the "same" engine in different tunes/sizes they can be night and day, ages ago I drove a *lot* of Mk1/2 Mondeos due to work having them as company/pool cars. The 1.8i in the Mk1/2 Mondeo was a delight that thrived on revs but the 2.0i just made odd moose noises up top and wasn't really much point visiting the last 1k on the dial.

So with the car playing the appropriate engine soundtrack and it making a massively load of torque with the combination of a fancy turbo and some motor assistance I can easily believe that you wouldn't be able to tell, particularly with an automatic gearbox that will hide its nature....but that's generally a problem with all new cars (and bikes). The issue is that there is so much effort to remove the characteristics that they become blisteringly fast...but dull. They've become *so* fast and competent however that there is little left except playing top trumps.

JAMSXR said:

Maybe it’s the biker in me, but the nuances between different engine configurations is what gets me exited, even their shortfalls. Light switch performance and artificial sound do noting for me - it was quite obvious even when I drove the w205 facelift V8.

Ditto, also why I actually probably use a lot more revs than most people and particularly dislike engines that don't build to a crescendo of power at/near the red line (like diesels). I like my older bike *because* the engine is arguably flawed vs the newer ones, it makes it more exciting and interesting even though slower.

So while tragically I'm not quite powerfully built enough to afford one anyway...it wouldn't be on my shopping list even if I could. I'll have the V8 please.

JAMSXR said:

Should have gone full EV in my opinion.

Agreed.

[CABC]

JAMSXR said:

Comments insinuating with the right technology you won’t be able to tell the difference between the sound of the V8 or 4 pot.. We might as well just plug ourselves into Metaverse.

Maybe it’s the biker in me, but the nuances between different engine configurations is what gets me exited, even their shortfalls. Light switch performance and artificial sound do noting for me - it was quite obvious even when I drove the w205 facelift V8.

Should have gone full EV in my opinion.

Edited by JAMSXR on Thursday 22 September 22:58

This post is interesting. Bikers are obviously more connected to the machine and road. As a car driver I feel a lot of ph have no sensitivity to the subtleties of chassis or engine. Absolute power is not the same as feel. My TVR has a max 240hp, but it’s so different to a 300hp hatch. The chassis is mediocre and no comparison to a Lotus. I’m on a different planet.

[blearyeyedboy]

CABC said:

This post is interesting. Bikers are obviously more connected to the machine and road. As a car driver I feel a lot of ph have no sensitivity to the subtleties of chassis or engine. Absolute power is not the same as feel. My TVR has a max 240hp, but it’s so different to a 300hp hatch. The chassis is mediocre and no comparison to a Lotus. I’m on a different planet.

I think you're correct.

I expect that Mercedes-Benz feel they can't yet offer a sufficiently emotional experience with an EV for perhaps another decade and yet can't continue with large capacity engines. My amateur conclusion is that they are trying to keep the C63 brand alive*enough* for another generation while making some money asking the rest.

Only time will tell whether that was commercially wise (which I suspect it is) and will be remembered fondly in 25 years (which I suspect it won't be).

[ChocolateFrog]

Nicolas Lazar said:

donkmeister said:

Out of interest, what is typical tank range at 130-155mph for something like a 545i or E500? With an 80-litre tank and 15mpg, 800 miles is going to mean stopping for fuel 3 times in the day. 10mpg means stopping 4 times.

And what about a Tesla? How far can you go at 155mph?

For long range high speed cruising on the Autobahn you need a Diesel. A 530d at 200km/h will consume around 10L/100km. A X5 40d at 230 around 17L/100km. Anything beyond 220km/h for more than just a few minutes is not realistic, even at night.

Tesla would probably do somewhere in the range of 40 miles at 155mph, maybe less.

[ChocolateFrog]

I know it's a cliche but imagine owning one of these at >10 years old.

Scary prospect even for someone like me that doesn't mind of bit of mechanical risk.