RE: New 2.0-litre Mercedes-AMG C63 officially unveiled

[Leon R]

Is it manual?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

barrycoupe said:

When are you guys going to get the message. It’s an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio you should be Raving about. All the things you criticise about Mercs and BM’s don’t happen on the Alfa. Lighter, quicker steering, more alive, better handling, and yes, a Ferrari engine. What’s not to like!

I wouldn't say it's necessarily that clear cut. Reviews I've seen of the Alfa vs the M3 haven't been saying "Alfa is much better". Some say one is better, some say the other is better.

[AppleJuice]

Leon R said:

Is it manual?

...

[barrycoupe]

If you read the articles that matter from the journos that understand performance cars, they all say the Alfa is the car they’d buy. Autocar, Car, Evo, Motor Sport…..and no, mine is not a manual, because manual is not available in the UK. It uses the very same ZF 8 speed auto that BMW use for all their cars, including the M3/4. Having driven the latest M3, the software hasn’t been sorted enough to take away some harshness. The Alfa is sorted in all modes, including Race. The one thing that effects negatively the M3 is the steering, which is nit quick enough, and the usual, what I call, BMW front end float…..engine wise, the M3 has probably zero turbo lag, where the Alfa V6 is slightly felt lower down. But the V6 has so much more brio!

[Walter Sobchak]

A C63 that’s had a great V8 in all its iterations be replaced by a 4 cylinder turbo and an electric motor?, not for me thanks.
Might as well be done with it and buy a Tesla, it’s lost what’s made it great.

[delta0]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

delta0 said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

I agree, except it isn't 680BHP apart from the first 10 seconds. Then it's 476bhp with a limited boost option up to about 580bhp, which in a 2.1 tonne car, will likely be slower than a 500bhp 1700/1800kg M3/RS4

To be fair, opportunities to use full power for more than 10 seconds at a time will be limited.

Obviously Mercedes have thought of it, but what about charging "in between"? So let's say you're on a single carriageway stuck behind people. You bury your foot for 3-4 seconds to overtake someone then carry on, get caught up behind someone else, then do another overtake, and repeat 3-4 times. Does it charge in between (I assume this uses fuel??) or does it only charge under braking? I wonder how long it can be 680bhp for? Laps around a track (not that that really matters for this car for most owners - I appreciate some will be tracked).

Maybe I'm getting old (at 33) but I just don't see the appeal in a 2 tonne almost 700bhp "small" sports saloon. I find nothing wrong with a 2+ tonne almost 700bhp S Class that is very quiet and comfortable. Adding weight can often mean the car feels more remote, more luxurious (when that weight is made of finer, heavier materials), but when it is meant to be a car to ENJOY driving, I see no appeal. I think I'd rather than an M3. Having seen a couple of them about now the grille is actually growing on me, believe it or not!

After the burst of acceleration you are going to have to lift off and that’s when it will charge.

Thanks. If it charges when you are not braking, but purely lifting off, I assume this must be regenerative braking (therefore will slow the car down more than just lifting off the throttle in a normal ICE car would?

Yes regen but you don’t need to lift off fully from the throttle to regen. Say you accelerate to overtake a car doing 40mph and you reach 60mph then after the overtake you return to 40mph you would regen down to that number like you would in an ICE engine braking.

[DonkeyApple]

If you match the throttle with the braking you'll be able to drive forever just on the free electricity.

I assume that's what most Merc drivers are doing as they potter along with the brake lights on, just taking advantage of perpetual motion?

[CABC]

DonkeyApple said:

If you match the throttle with the braking you'll be able to drive forever just on the free electricity.

this is where the really big EVs have the potential to feed electricity back to the grid.
buy an suv and save the planet.

[Julian Scott]

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

I agree, except it isn't 680BHP apart from the first 10 seconds. Then it's 476bhp with a limited boost option up to about 580bhp, which in a 2.1 tonne car, will likely be slower than a 500bhp 1700/1800kg M3/RS4

To be fair, opportunities to use full power for more than 10 seconds at a time will be limited.

Isn't this just ONE bout of 10 secs though? Then you're dropped down to a finite number of 580bhp boosts until it's all fully charged?

[Julian Scott]

D4rez said:

The complaining would’ve been worse still if it was an EV. The next one will be, I would celebrate the last opportunities to own an ICE C class AMG if I were you.

Not sure, I've just changed my car. I went for a 5.0 Supercharged V8, but a serious consideration was a Taycan. I wouldn't have looked at a 4-pot large saloon.

If you're loosing the engine note, may as well go for the benefits of a full EV.

[Julian Scott]

DMZ said:

Tbh I have a pretty low opinion of hybridised 6s or 8s at least in the PHEV sense. You want those on song all the time, why turn them off?

The BMW 45e is pretty good as an engine, I've driven in both the X5 and the 7-series.

For non-Electric running versions, the old RRS HST (400bhp electrically boosted 3l I6) was a really good option too.

[C70R]

This article is absolutely perfect 'forum frothing' bait. It's got everything to let PHers roll out their new car cliches.

- V8 being replaced by a 4cyl
- Hybrid tech
- A heavier new model
- Turbo over NA
- A high price tag

Just perfection, PH. You're nailing it.

[otolith]

Julian Scott said:

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

I agree, except it isn't 680BHP apart from the first 10 seconds. Then it's 476bhp with a limited boost option up to about 580bhp, which in a 2.1 tonne car, will likely be slower than a 500bhp 1700/1800kg M3/RS4

To be fair, opportunities to use full power for more than 10 seconds at a time will be limited.

Isn't this just ONE bout of 10 secs though? Then you're dropped down to a finite number of 580bhp boosts until it's all fully charged?

It's one bout of 10 seconds until it recharges itself, not one bout since it was last plugged in.

And actually that's assuming that the limitation is power - it might be temperature rather than charge which dictates when you can do it again.

[ITP]

C70R said:

This article is absolutely perfect 'forum frothing' bait. It's got everything to let PHers roll out their new car cliches.

- V8 being replaced by a 4cyl
- Hybrid tech
- A heavier new model
- Turbo over NA
- A high price tag

Just perfection, PH. You're nailing it.

We’ll, this site is called pistonheads.
This latest version has halved the number of pistons, added ev tech on its way to the next one losing all its pistons and being ev only.

[Julian Scott]

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

I agree, except it isn't 680BHP apart from the first 10 seconds. Then it's 476bhp with a limited boost option up to about 580bhp, which in a 2.1 tonne car, will likely be slower than a 500bhp 1700/1800kg M3/RS4

To be fair, opportunities to use full power for more than 10 seconds at a time will be limited.

Isn't this just ONE bout of 10 secs though? Then you're dropped down to a finite number of 580bhp boosts until it's all fully charged?

It's one bout of 10 seconds until it recharges itself, not one bout since it was last plugged in.

And actually that's assuming that the limitation is power - it might be temperature rather than charge which dictates when you can do it again.

What's the difference between the 100bhp boost and the 200bhp boost in that case?

[otolith]

Julian Scott said:

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

otolith said:

Julian Scott said:

I agree, except it isn't 680BHP apart from the first 10 seconds. Then it's 476bhp with a limited boost option up to about 580bhp, which in a 2.1 tonne car, will likely be slower than a 500bhp 1700/1800kg M3/RS4

To be fair, opportunities to use full power for more than 10 seconds at a time will be limited.

Isn't this just ONE bout of 10 secs though? Then you're dropped down to a finite number of 580bhp boosts until it's all fully charged?

It's one bout of 10 seconds until it recharges itself, not one bout since it was last plugged in.

And actually that's assuming that the limitation is power - it might be temperature rather than charge which dictates when you can do it again.

What's the difference between the 100bhp boost and the 200bhp boost in that case?

Think of it like the "overboost" function some turbocharged cars have?

[cerb4.5lee]

Julian Scott said:

DMZ said:

Tbh I have a pretty low opinion of hybridised 6s or 8s at least in the PHEV sense. You want those on song all the time, why turn them off?

The BMW 45e is pretty good as an engine, I've driven in both the X5 and the 7-series.

For non-Electric running versions, the old RRS HST (400bhp electrically boosted 3l I6) was a really good option too.

I was really attracted to the X5 45e because of the B58 engine. However after I drove one I was left unimpressed with it. I liked the engine, but I didn't like the hybrid bit though(plus the car that I was planning to drive had a fault on the battery so it couldn't be driven...what use is that?!).

The car really felt its 2500kg weight to me as well. I think that you need to either stick with an ICE'd car, or go for a full electric car. You arguably get the worst of both worlds with a hybrid for me(you end up with the added weight/plus the risk of the battery failing so you can't use the car anyway).

[JonnyVTEC]

FYI 10s burst is power peak power limit. Not really the battery. So no doubt ready to go again not long after, nothing to concern much you can do on a UK road

[Fady]

C70R said:

This article is absolutely perfect 'forum frothing' bait. It's got everything to let PHers roll out their new car cliches.

- V8 being replaced by a 4cyl
- Hybrid tech
- A heavier new model
- Turbo over NA
- A high price tag

Just perfection, PH. You're nailing it.

Thing is - no one has driven one and there are no reviews of it being driven. Proof of the pudding and all that!

[NomduJour]

C70R said:

It's got everything to let PHers roll out their new car cliches.

Except that they aren’t clichés.