RE: Lamborghini Urus Performante | PH Review
Discussion
leekietap said:
It's a RSQ8 in a posh frock. It's about as Italian as laderhosen and bratwurst
It's a nice car and a lot of fun but in the harsh light of day it's a lot of money for what is really just a trim level. Glad it exists, enjoying seeing them but I do think they're very over priced.
I’m sure the writers at PH know the Urus gets some of its readers worked up, very few of whom can actually afford the car which makes their opinions largely irrelevant. The residuals, and waiting list say it all. I’m told that Lamborghini closed the order book for the Performante about a month ago. ‘Nuff said.
They clearly know their market with these, it is interesting they have dumped the air chambers. That will limit the ability of it in any regard, Aston for the 707 kept the air chambers, but retuned it, I cannot deny it was hugely impressive for such a large vehicle.
In any regard the urus seems hugely flawed in so many ways, but people buy then for the lambo they can use every day, which having driven a dbx I do get more. The Urus though for me just shows the marketing has worked on people.
In any regard the urus seems hugely flawed in so many ways, but people buy then for the lambo they can use every day, which having driven a dbx I do get more. The Urus though for me just shows the marketing has worked on people.
DonkeyApple said:
leekietap said:
It's a RSQ8 in a posh frock. It's about as Italian as laderhosen and bratwurst
It's a nice car and a lot of fun but in the harsh light of day it's a lot of money for what is really just a trim level. Glad it exists, enjoying seeing them but I do think they're very over priced.
These cars cost more than some people's homes. That makes them beyond the reach and comprehension of most people, and that's reflected in many of the comments. The cost of entry is high, but a Kia Picanto, the cheapest new car for sale in the UK, will cost its owner more in depreciation than an Urus.
Sierra Mike said:
DonkeyApple said:
leekietap said:
It's a RSQ8 in a posh frock. It's about as Italian as laderhosen and bratwurst
It's a nice car and a lot of fun but in the harsh light of day it's a lot of money for what is really just a trim level. Glad it exists, enjoying seeing them but I do think they're very over priced.
These cars cost more than some people's homes. That makes them beyond the reach and comprehension of most people, and that's reflected in many of the comments. The cost of entry is high, but a Kia Picanto, the cheapest new car for sale in the UK, will cost its owner more in depreciation than an Urus.
The end number isn't relevant, I'm not looking to conflate my opinion that they are over priced with the opinions of those who simply don't like the number. I'm wholly agnostic to the number and whether it is £50k, £100k or £500k. It's an opinion based on the reality that the car is based upon a mass produced, generic design that benefits both from huge economies of scale but also pre sunk design costs. The engine is also from the same supplier and is used in most of the branded versions of the Touareg along with any number of other vehicles. Even the design is compromised because it's not ground up, bespoke for the task at hand but instead whatever they want to do has to fit to the shell that was designed for a completely different purpose and client base. So in reality, this gives rise to the Urus being a badging exercise as opposed to a thoroughbred product and that makes it hard to logically justify the cost.
Conversely, the Ferrari is a thoroughbred. It has been designed by Ferrari, built by Ferrari and is powered by Ferrari. What you're getting with their £400k van is a product that is as close to 100% Ferrari as you can probably get. It's the real deal and on top of that it is production limited by the factory as opposed to any temporary external controls.
Switch back to the Urus and what you're getting for their £200k van is something that at its core has had nothing to do with Lamborghini who have to build their cars by taking the main components from their owner and doing as they are told. And the only limits on volumes are customer demand at one end and parts supply at the other.
Of all the versions of this VW shell, in terms of fair value, arguably the Cayenne Turbo is the one. It has the least compromises caused by having to start with someone else's vehicle design or engine, delivers absolutely monumental performance worthy of the brand image and the additional cost over the base vehicle is clearer to justify.
But that presents another issue for Lamborghini. What are they doing to the base shell that Porsche aren't doing to justify charging nearly twice the price?
These are all superb cars but where I grew up we used to have a saying, 'feel the schmutter'. No one does these days. No one considers the quality and whether it justifies what the shop keeper is demanding. Instead the consumer now uses the restaurant wine list technique of looking at the name and the number assigned to it and basing the decision on that. Or, making the mistake that because it is half the price of something else it must be a bargain.
DonkeyApple said:
leekietap said:
It's a RSQ8 in a posh frock. It's about as Italian as laderhosen and bratwurst
It's a nice car and a lot of fun but in the harsh light of day it's a lot of money for what is really just a trim level. Glad it exists, enjoying seeing them but I do think they're very over priced.
DonkeyApple said:
Sierra Mike said:
DonkeyApple said:
leekietap said:
It's a RSQ8 in a posh frock. It's about as Italian as laderhosen and bratwurst
It's a nice car and a lot of fun but in the harsh light of day it's a lot of money for what is really just a trim level. Glad it exists, enjoying seeing them but I do think they're very over priced.
These cars cost more than some people's homes. That makes them beyond the reach and comprehension of most people, and that's reflected in many of the comments. The cost of entry is high, but a Kia Picanto, the cheapest new car for sale in the UK, will cost its owner more in depreciation than an Urus.
The end number isn't relevant, I'm not looking to conflate my opinion that they are over priced with the opinions of those who simply don't like the number. I'm wholly agnostic to the number and whether it is £50k, £100k or £500k. It's an opinion based on the reality that the car is based upon a mass produced, generic design that benefits both from huge economies of scale but also pre sunk design costs. The engine is also from the same supplier and is used in most of the branded versions of the Touareg along with any number of other vehicles. Even the design is compromised because it's not ground up, bespoke for the task at hand but instead whatever they want to do has to fit to the shell that was designed for a completely different purpose and client base. So in reality, this gives rise to the Urus being a badging exercise as opposed to a thoroughbred product and that makes it hard to logically justify the cost.
Conversely, the Ferrari is a thoroughbred. It has been designed by Ferrari, built by Ferrari and is powered by Ferrari. What you're getting with their £400k van is a product that is as close to 100% Ferrari as you can probably get. It's the real deal and on top of that it is production limited by the factory as opposed to any temporary external controls.
Switch back to the Urus and what you're getting for their £200k van is something that at its core has had nothing to do with Lamborghini who have to build their cars by taking the main components from their owner and doing as they are told. And the only limits on volumes are customer demand at one end and parts supply at the other.
Of all the versions of this VW shell, in terms of fair value, arguably the Cayenne Turbo is the one. It has the least compromises caused by having to start with someone else's vehicle design or engine, delivers absolutely monumental performance worthy of the brand image and the additional cost over the base vehicle is clearer to justify.
But that presents another issue for Lamborghini. What are they doing to the base shell that Porsche aren't doing to justify charging nearly twice the price?
These are all superb cars but where I grew up we used to have a saying, 'feel the schmutter'. No one does these days. No one considers the quality and whether it justifies what the shop keeper is demanding. Instead the consumer now uses the restaurant wine list technique of looking at the name and the number assigned to it and basing the decision on that. Or, making the mistake that because it is half the price of something else it must be a bargain.
Julian Scott said:
Raw and basic economics suggest that if Demand is significantly greater than Supply, it isn't overpriced.
One is familiar with such economics. It's almost as if I were positing a personal opinion as opposed to putting myself forward as a spokesman for a niche group of consumers. DonkeyApple said:
Those are two separate economic factors which make it difficult to tie the two scenarios together.
The end number isn't relevant, I'm not looking to conflate my opinion that they are over priced with the opinions of those who simply don't like the number. I'm wholly agnostic to the number and whether it is £50k, £100k or £500k. It's an opinion based on the reality that the car is based upon a mass produced, generic design that benefits both from huge economies of scale but also pre sunk design costs. The engine is also from the same supplier and is used in most of the branded versions of the Touareg along with any number of other vehicles. Even the design is compromised because it's not ground up, bespoke for the task at hand but instead whatever they want to do has to fit to the shell that was designed for a completely different purpose and client base. So in reality, this gives rise to the Urus being a badging exercise as opposed to a thoroughbred product and that makes it hard to logically justify the cost.
Conversely, the Ferrari is a thoroughbred. It has been designed by Ferrari, built by Ferrari and is powered by Ferrari. What you're getting with their £400k van is a product that is as close to 100% Ferrari as you can probably get. It's the real deal and on top of that it is production limited by the factory as opposed to any temporary external controls.
Switch back to the Urus and what you're getting for their £200k van is something that at its core has had nothing to do with Lamborghini who have to build their cars by taking the main components from their owner and doing as they are told. And the only limits on volumes are customer demand at one end and parts supply at the other.
Of all the versions of this VW shell, in terms of fair value, arguably the Cayenne Turbo is the one. It has the least compromises caused by having to start with someone else's vehicle design or engine, delivers absolutely monumental performance worthy of the brand image and the additional cost over the base vehicle is clearer to justify.
But that presents another issue for Lamborghini. What are they doing to the base shell that Porsche aren't doing to justify charging nearly twice the price?
These are all superb cars but where I grew up we used to have a saying, 'feel the schmutter'. No one does these days. No one considers the quality and whether it justifies what the shop keeper is demanding. Instead the consumer now uses the restaurant wine list technique of looking at the name and the number assigned to it and basing the decision on that. Or, making the mistake that because it is half the price of something else it must be a bargain.
Except…the Pursosangue is in reality a jacked up Lusso with back doors and some new suspension. Looks are subjective and won’t argue which one is more attractive. (For me it’s the Lusso)The end number isn't relevant, I'm not looking to conflate my opinion that they are over priced with the opinions of those who simply don't like the number. I'm wholly agnostic to the number and whether it is £50k, £100k or £500k. It's an opinion based on the reality that the car is based upon a mass produced, generic design that benefits both from huge economies of scale but also pre sunk design costs. The engine is also from the same supplier and is used in most of the branded versions of the Touareg along with any number of other vehicles. Even the design is compromised because it's not ground up, bespoke for the task at hand but instead whatever they want to do has to fit to the shell that was designed for a completely different purpose and client base. So in reality, this gives rise to the Urus being a badging exercise as opposed to a thoroughbred product and that makes it hard to logically justify the cost.
Conversely, the Ferrari is a thoroughbred. It has been designed by Ferrari, built by Ferrari and is powered by Ferrari. What you're getting with their £400k van is a product that is as close to 100% Ferrari as you can probably get. It's the real deal and on top of that it is production limited by the factory as opposed to any temporary external controls.
Switch back to the Urus and what you're getting for their £200k van is something that at its core has had nothing to do with Lamborghini who have to build their cars by taking the main components from their owner and doing as they are told. And the only limits on volumes are customer demand at one end and parts supply at the other.
Of all the versions of this VW shell, in terms of fair value, arguably the Cayenne Turbo is the one. It has the least compromises caused by having to start with someone else's vehicle design or engine, delivers absolutely monumental performance worthy of the brand image and the additional cost over the base vehicle is clearer to justify.
But that presents another issue for Lamborghini. What are they doing to the base shell that Porsche aren't doing to justify charging nearly twice the price?
These are all superb cars but where I grew up we used to have a saying, 'feel the schmutter'. No one does these days. No one considers the quality and whether it justifies what the shop keeper is demanding. Instead the consumer now uses the restaurant wine list technique of looking at the name and the number assigned to it and basing the decision on that. Or, making the mistake that because it is half the price of something else it must be a bargain.
Not saying it's a bad car, as the Lusso is great, and the suspension does look very effective and ‘active’ in controlling roll and pitch as far as I can see from videos, but it’s not a Great Leap Forward. Still has same 4WD system, which is not a patch on the Lambaudi’s.
On that basis, both of them are sprinkled with the Kool aid to an extent.
In true PH style, you can have a Lusso and a Urus perf for the price of a PS!
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