Pollution from brakes and tyres

Pollution from brakes and tyres

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Discussion

carlo996

5,229 posts

20 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
NMNeil said:
Here we go again, "Oh the US has more fatalities and causes more pollution", to try and detract from the pollution and road deaths in the UK.
And show me any country that's saying "It's OK if xxxx number of people are killed by car drivers each year"
The UK is small pickings in the global order of pollution. China 30% of the world's output...UK 1%. As for road deaths we are one of the safest countries in the world.

What point are you trying to make exactly?

NMNeil

Original Poster:

5,860 posts

49 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
carlo996 said:
NMNeil said:
Here we go again, "Oh the US has more fatalities and causes more pollution", to try and detract from the pollution and road deaths in the UK.
And show me any country that's saying "It's OK if xxxx number of people are killed by car drivers each year"
The UK is small pickings in the global order of pollution. China 30% of the world's output...UK 1%. As for road deaths we are one of the safest countries in the world.

What point are you trying to make exactly?
That maybe you should concentrate on fixing your own problems before looking at other countries and not using their high pollution and road death numbers as a justification to ignore your own.
I have to be careful because I've been banned from the political forum because I suggested to a PH member that before making suggestions on how to fix about our firearm related crimes maybe you needed to fix your own knife crime epidemic first.
The administrators for some reason didn't like this, but it's their forum so it's their decision.


carlo996

5,229 posts

20 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
NMNeil said:
That maybe you should concentrate on fixing your own problems before looking at other countries and not using their high pollution and road death numbers as a justification to ignore your own.
I have to be careful because I've been banned from the political forum because I suggested to a PH member that before making suggestions on how to fix about our firearm related crimes maybe you needed to fix your own knife crime epidemic first.
The administrators for some reason didn't like this, but it's their forum so it's their decision.
But the UK, in both pollution 'numbers' and road deaths is doing pretty well?

Again. What point are you trying to make exactly?

blue al

923 posts

158 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
Don’t let the facts ruin a good argument….
And Why let science get in the way of political grandstanding.

Who ever thought that the words public consultation meant that you had to actually had to take account of the publics point of view ?

It has always been window dressing, the only time it wasn’t was brexit and the suits never calculated that it might actually happen….

Evanivitch

19,804 posts

121 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
carlo996 said:
The UK is small pickings in the global order of pollution. China 30% of the world's output...UK 1%. As for road deaths we are one of the safest countries in the world.

What point are you trying to make exactly?
What does Chinese pollution have to do with air quality in villages and towns in the UK?

irc

7,171 posts

135 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
NMNeil said:
Here we go again, "Oh the US has more fatalities and causes more pollution", to try and detract from the pollution and road deaths in the UK.
Well, face it. Ift climate change is a huge problem it is far more useful for the big players to cut down.


NMNeil said:
And show me any country that's saying "It's OK if xxxx number of people are killed by car drivers each year"
Nobody says it. Because the public don't like hard truths. It is one of those unspoken truths. Like balancing the cost of expensive medical interventions against years of life gained. Fact is that every country sets speed limits and other measures where deaths are brought down to an acceptable level while mobility is maintained.

As it happens either we refuse to accept USA levels of road deaths or we are better at road safety.

If it isn't true why are USA citizens not demanding the road safety measures proven to work in the UK and some other countries? You could save tens of thousands of lives every year.

Because Americans are OK with high road deaths? If not why not?

blue al

923 posts

158 months

Saturday 26th November 2022
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
What does Chinese pollution have to do with air quality in villages and towns in the UK?
Everything…
If we have to adhere to civilised methods of production and they don’t
We are cutting the throats of our own workers and exporting jobs, to a dirty corner of the world where slavery and pollution are a minor inconvenience to the ruling elite…

If bird flu, covid, iPhone production, ali express, Amazon, products mostly all imported from China impact your daily existence ..
Then In oneway or another then you have answered your own question… even if you cannot see it yourself.


Edited by blue al on Saturday 26th November 21:51

DonkeyApple

54,930 posts

168 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
blue al said:
Evanivitch said:
What does Chinese pollution have to do with air quality in villages and towns in the UK?
Everything…
If we have to adhere to civilised methods of production and they don’t
We are cutting the throats of our own workers and exporting jobs, to a dirty corner of the world where slavery and pollution are a minor inconvenience to the ruling elite…

If bird flu, covid, iPhone production, ali express, Amazon, products mostly all imported from China impact your daily existence ..
Then In oneway or another then you have answered your own question… even if you cannot see it yourself.


Edited by blue al on Saturday 26th November 21:51
Haven't you just made the case for how much pollution in China is simply a result of Western outsourcing of the dirty manufacturing and the rampant, excessive consumerism of markets like the U.K.?

If we boil the issue all down to Black Friday, it becomes quite clear who and what is responsible for a very large part of the pollution in China.

That's the debate, we can't simply blame China when we are the ones behind so much of that pollution.

Plus, we hold the key in that we can at any time we like opt to consume less stuff that no one really needs.

swanny71

2,849 posts

208 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
carlo996 said:
NMNeil said:
Here we go again, "Oh the US has more fatalities and causes more pollution", to try and detract from the pollution and road deaths in the UK.
And show me any country that's saying "It's OK if xxxx number of people are killed by car drivers each year"
The UK is small pickings in the global order of pollution. China 30% of the world's output...UK 1%. As for road deaths we are one of the safest countries in the world.

What point are you trying to make exactly?
Think he’s American, so something along the lines of “we’d just shoot those pesky polluting tyres with our Glocks, problem solved and God bless America, the rest of the world sucks”…..or something. wink

dxg

8,123 posts

259 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
pocketspring said:
No one will be happy until we're walking around barefooted and eating grass.
Eating grass can produce gas , same as baked beans..
Some people won't be happy until there's zero entropy.

DodgyGeezer

40,153 posts

189 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
dxg said:
Draxindustries1 said:
pocketspring said:
No one will be happy until we're walking around barefooted and eating grass.
Eating grass can produce gas , same as baked beans..
Some people won't be happy until there's zero entropy.

Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
blue al said:
Evanivitch said:
What does Chinese pollution have to do with air quality in villages and towns in the UK?
Everything…
If we have to adhere to civilised methods of production and they don’t
We are cutting the throats of our own workers and exporting jobs, to a dirty corner of the world where slavery and pollution are a minor inconvenience to the ruling elite…

If bird flu, covid, iPhone production, ali express, Amazon, products mostly all imported from China impact your daily existence ..
Then In oneway or another then you have answered your own question… even if you cannot see it yourself.


Edited by blue al on Saturday 26th November 21:51
Haven't you just made the case for how much pollution in China is simply a result of Western outsourcing of the dirty manufacturing and the rampant, excessive consumerism of markets like the U.K.?

If we boil the issue all down to Black Friday, it becomes quite clear who and what is responsible for a very large part of the pollution in China.

That's the debate, we can't simply blame China when we are the ones behind so much of that pollution.

Plus, we hold the key in that we can at any time we like opt to consume less stuff that no one really needs.
Plus, doesn't the pollution from brakes and tyres mostly affect the people nearby? As a slight diversion, studded winter tyres are not allowed in central Stockholm nowadays because of local air pollution concerns.

DonkeyApple

54,930 posts

168 months

Sunday 27th November 2022
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Plus, doesn't the pollution from brakes and tyres mostly affect the people nearby? As a slight diversion, studded winter tyres are not allowed in central Stockholm nowadays because of local air pollution concerns.
Weirdly, no one actually knows as there have been no real studies into the specific particulate matter. It's also not typically airborne particulates like pollen or exhaust emissions from engines and central heating systems. And in a temperate climate most of this debris is washed regularly into the drains.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2023
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
carlo996 said:
Largely nonsense though in comparison to industry, heavy transportation and air travel. Low hanging fruit as ever.
This^
Vehicle pollution is a very small percentage. Aircraft , industry and marine transport contribute massively to co2 levels. Large ships burn HFO which is just distillate crude oil which needs heating before its introduced to the injectors. Many engines do not have exhaust after treatment.
EV's being touted as 'zero emission' is far from the truth, its just pushing emissions from the tail pipe to the power stations. Wind/ solar not being suitable for continuous power generation its down to gas and nuclear. Waste from the latter is active for many thousands of years. Burying it half a km underground in concrete and brass capsules at the Finnish facility has major drawbacks and has a finite capacity anyway.
The whole 'zero emission' EV thing is a fallacy..
Actually you might have got that wrong

Air transport and marine transport are far less polluting in aggregate than vehicles.

As a % of global CO2

Road transport - 11.9%
Aviation - 1.9%
Marine - 1.7%

Of the road transport 60% is passenger travel, the rest is freight.
So focussing on cars really is the right priority unfortunately.

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector






NMNeil

Original Poster:

5,860 posts

49 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2023
quotequote all
irc said:
If it isn't true why are USA citizens not demanding the road safety measures proven to work in the UK and some other countries? You could save tens of thousands of lives every year.

Because Americans are OK with high road deaths? If not why not?
We're beginning to follow your lead by trying to slow the cars and trucks down, which is well documented as being the cause of many road fatalities.
https://www.government-fleet.com/10180073/new-york...
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/speed-limite...
https://www.odometer.com/lifestyle/2562836/the-epa...
So we are starting to address the problem.

CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2023
quotequote all
How can they introduce new legislation on this when it is incompatible with our poor road design? There are speed humps all over london now so I am mostly accelerating and braking. You can't (legitimately) say well we want to reduce pollution from brakes and tyres, if at the same time you are installing road furniture to increase the pollution from those same items?

It doesn't make sense, but we know that's not important.

DonkeyApple

54,930 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
How can they introduce new legislation on this when it is incompatible with our poor road design? There are speed humps all over london now so I am mostly accelerating and braking. You can't (legitimately) say well we want to reduce pollution from brakes and tyres, if at the same time you are installing road furniture to increase the pollution from those same items?

It doesn't make sense, but we know that's not important.
The massive 20mph zone significantly reduces the acceleration and braking events in London though. This probably isn't brilliant for some exhaust emissions as few cars are optimised for crawling speeds but it is the area moving quickest to EV anyway.

I suspect the key lies in finding the actual balance where further change just isn't worth the expense and hassle. The air in central London can only ever been cleaned so much given the geography and position of the city and it would be very fair to argue that we are already into diminishing returns.

DodgyGeezer

40,153 posts

189 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
The massive 20mph zone significantly reduces the acceleration and braking events in London though. This probably isn't brilliant for some exhaust emissions as few cars are optimised for crawling speeds but it is the area moving quickest to EV anyway.

I suspect the key lies in finding the actual balance where further change just isn't worth the expense and hassle. The air in central London can only ever been cleaned so much given the geography and position of the city and it would be very fair to argue that we are already into diminishing returns.
to be fair air quality in the big smoke has improved immeasurably over the last 60 years...

Zero Fuchs

962 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Haven't you just made the case for how much pollution in China is simply a result of Western outsourcing of the dirty manufacturing and the rampant, excessive consumerism of markets like the U.K.?

If we boil the issue all down to Black Friday, it becomes quite clear who and what is responsible for a very large part of the pollution in China.

That's the debate, we can't simply blame China when we are the ones behind so much of that pollution.

Plus, we hold the key in that we can at any time we like opt to consume less stuff that no one really needs.
This, all day long.

remedy

1,635 posts

190 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Zero Fuchs said:
DonkeyApple said:
Haven't you just made the case for how much pollution in China is simply a result of Western outsourcing of the dirty manufacturing and the rampant, excessive consumerism of markets like the U.K.?

If we boil the issue all down to Black Friday, it becomes quite clear who and what is responsible for a very large part of the pollution in China.

That's the debate, we can't simply blame China when we are the ones behind so much of that pollution.

Plus, we hold the key in that we can at any time we like opt to consume less stuff that no one really needs.
This, all day long.
Just search for anything electrical on Amazon and see how many shonky, random named Chinese brands are returned for the same general product. It is out of control.