RE: 2023 BMW XM | PH Review
Discussion
There has been some comedy gold both in the article and in the comments.
As a long time BMW M fanboy, I handed in my cards a while back (probably at current M4 launch).
The current line up leaves me cold but this direction to turn "M" into nothing more than a trim level "More M Sir?" , "Can you feel the extra Mness Sir?" "This is peak M Sir"
2.8t pile of tatt.
How anyone drops >£150k on one of these is beyond me.
You'd be better off getting a Range Rover / Bentayga if the luxury angle is your bag or the Cayenne / Urus ifyou want a performance SUV.
I feel a bit like a stuck record but BMW seem to be offering products at a tier they can't really compete in at really strong money. 8 series being a great example of this.
150k......
As a long time BMW M fanboy, I handed in my cards a while back (probably at current M4 launch).
The current line up leaves me cold but this direction to turn "M" into nothing more than a trim level "More M Sir?" , "Can you feel the extra Mness Sir?" "This is peak M Sir"
2.8t pile of tatt.
How anyone drops >£150k on one of these is beyond me.
You'd be better off getting a Range Rover / Bentayga if the luxury angle is your bag or the Cayenne / Urus ifyou want a performance SUV.
I feel a bit like a stuck record but BMW seem to be offering products at a tier they can't really compete in at really strong money. 8 series being a great example of this.
150k......
Water Fairy said:
croyde said:
bangerhoarder said:
Would rather have a Citroen XM, by a margin. Using the change to try to clear all of the fault warnings on the dashboard.
Need to change the subtitle to M1 surely?
I had an XM years ago, a much nicer looking thing than this monstrosity. BMW Just Stoppit please.Need to change the subtitle to M1 surely?
LunarOne said:
smilo996 said:
Now we're talking. I'd have lusted after that.I can also wholeheartedly say to those chaps that are gamely showing their 80s and 90s BMWs, that the XM target buyer's response would be "oh that's a pit, could they not afford a new one?" Note that this is not me, but then I'm not the XM's target market.
I suspect the BMW dealer's response to everyone demanding something more elegant would be to point in the direction of the 8 series, which is about as pretty a car as they make nowadays.
smilo996 said:
How far BMW have fallen in their desire to indulge t
ts who have to buy SUV's to make themselves feel better.
The interior is almost as dire as the exterior. Amazing to have built a egobarge where looking under the bonnet is the only saving grace which is relative.
What a flatulent waste of resources.
They could have done so much better and made another M1.
Instead of Giugiaros concept we got the i8, which wasn’t bad after all.ts who have to buy SUV's to make themselves feel better. The interior is almost as dire as the exterior. Amazing to have built a egobarge where looking under the bonnet is the only saving grace which is relative.
What a flatulent waste of resources.
They could have done so much better and made another M1.
A couple of things
a) Of course I think it is horrendous
b) It's not for us. It is mainly for the Middle East, China and SE Asia ("new economies") who will lap up this nonesense as a status symbol plus a modest number in Europe and USA who want to "make a statement"
They are welcome to it
c) Companies go where the money is
a) Of course I think it is horrendous
b) It's not for us. It is mainly for the Middle East, China and SE Asia ("new economies") who will lap up this nonesense as a status symbol plus a modest number in Europe and USA who want to "make a statement"
They are welcome to it
c) Companies go where the money is
GeeTeeBee said:
mrclav said:
hey stand for what any good for-profit business has always stood for - making money. If you look, you'll see that they continue to succeed and that, ultimately, is what what matters; they've sold more cars, made more profit and are in more markets effectively today than ever before.
No, the brand needs to stand for something to succeed in the market. It exists to make money, that's different to what the brand stands for.Clear branding propositions are more important than ever before in the car industry. That's why middle-market brands that don't really stand for anything have struggled, while brands that stand for something - anything - clear like sportiness or luxury at one end of the scale (say, Porsche) or value at the other (say, Dacia or Skoda) have done well.
In the short run, this car may do well. It's got a lot of visual impact. But it's not clear what it means from a brand positioning perspective. To me shock value and pure material consumption isn't a sustainable branding proposition.
BMW used to stand for something clear. It didn't matter that most people couldn't tell if it delivered on that, but it did actually deliver on that brand positioning. Just as hardly anybody who buys a Rolex diving watch goes diving with it. In the short run, Rolex can wheel out any old tat and people will cough up. In the short term, it wouldn't matter if Rolex sold a diving watch that was wholly incapable of going diving.
In the long run, the brand needs to stand for something to be sustainable. Eventually, if there's no substance underpinning the brand, then the business will suffer. So diving watches that nobody uses to go diving still need a certain level of engineering and the Rolex brand needs to stand for that for it to succeed in the long run. Same applies to BMW. This thing may sell well. But that doesn't mean it's taking the brand in the right long term direction.
I am only interested in facts - namely, BMW's profit is greater than it's ever been and they have sold more cars than they ever have before.
No-one can predict what will happen in future but for now, they are doing just fine, regardless of what your (or any of the armchair critics on here) opinion might be.
Edited by mrclav on Saturday 18th March 17:31
pycraft said:
LunarOne said:
smilo996 said:
Now we're talking. I'd have lusted after that.I can also wholeheartedly say to those chaps that are gamely showing their 80s and 90s BMWs, that the XM target buyer's response would be "oh that's a pit, could they not afford a new one?" Note that this is not me, but then I'm not the XM's target market.
I suspect the BMW dealer's response to everyone demanding something more elegant would be to point in the direction of the 8 series, which is about as pretty a car as they make nowadays.
Water Fairy said:
mrclav said:
Water Fairy said:
mrclav said:
hey stand for what any good for-profit business has always stood for - making money. If you look, you'll see that they continue to succeed and that, ultimately, is what what matters; they've sold more cars, made more profit and are in more markets effectively today than ever before.
This is why I laugh at every single poster on here harking back to old cars they feel represent the company; it was the same mission back then - make money. Winning races only served as a promotion to make money. Having the Motorsport division ultimately serves that purpose so when people say "M now stands for marketing", they miss the point as ultimately it always did. Winning races and championships was ALL for marketing purposes with the intention to sell more cars and therefore make more money.
I've shown this car to several non-car friends and literally every. single. one. of them love it - the fact the order books are healthy for the XM does not surprise me one iota.
You laugh away StevieThis is why I laugh at every single poster on here harking back to old cars they feel represent the company; it was the same mission back then - make money. Winning races only served as a promotion to make money. Having the Motorsport division ultimately serves that purpose so when people say "M now stands for marketing", they miss the point as ultimately it always did. Winning races and championships was ALL for marketing purposes with the intention to sell more cars and therefore make more money.
I've shown this car to several non-car friends and literally every. single. one. of them love it - the fact the order books are healthy for the XM does not surprise me one iota.
BMW and their shareholders (and yes, I am one) simply don't care about your utterly irrelevant opinion or your pitiful attempt at insulting those who know how to make money.
Water Fairy said:
mrclav said:
Water Fairy said:
mrclav said:
hey stand for what any good for-profit business has always stood for - making money. If you look, you'll see that they continue to succeed and that, ultimately, is what what matters; they've sold more cars, made more profit and are in more markets effectively today than ever before.
This is why I laugh at every single poster on here harking back to old cars they feel represent the company; it was the same mission back then - make money. Winning races only served as a promotion to make money. Having the Motorsport division ultimately serves that purpose so when people say "M now stands for marketing", they miss the point as ultimately it always did. Winning races and championships was ALL for marketing purposes with the intention to sell more cars and therefore make more money.
I've shown this car to several non-car friends and literally every. single. one. of them love it - the fact the order books are healthy for the XM does not surprise me one iota.
You laugh away StevieThis is why I laugh at every single poster on here harking back to old cars they feel represent the company; it was the same mission back then - make money. Winning races only served as a promotion to make money. Having the Motorsport division ultimately serves that purpose so when people say "M now stands for marketing", they miss the point as ultimately it always did. Winning races and championships was ALL for marketing purposes with the intention to sell more cars and therefore make more money.
I've shown this car to several non-car friends and literally every. single. one. of them love it - the fact the order books are healthy for the XM does not surprise me one iota.
BMW and their shareholders (and yes, I am one) simply don't care about your utterly irrelevant opinion or your pitiful attempt at insulting those who know how to make money.
mrclav said:
ll well and good in theory but ultimately what you offer is opinion.
I am only interested in facts - namely, BMW's profit is greater than it's ever been and they have sold more cars than they ever have before.
No-one can predict what will happen in future but for now, they are doing just fine, regardless of what your (or any of the armchair critics on here) opinion might be.
They actually sold less cars in 2022, only delivering profit by focusing on larger and more profitable models...granted there were obvious pressures, but even so your "fact" on "sold more cars" is wrong.I am only interested in facts - namely, BMW's profit is greater than it's ever been and they have sold more cars than they ever have before.
No-one can predict what will happen in future but for now, they are doing just fine, regardless of what your (or any of the armchair critics on here) opinion might be.
I don't mind it at all. It needs the chrome surrounds taken away from the grille but it looks like a piece of brutalist industrial/tech design. Not at all pretty but this type of car almost by definition can't be. I'd like to see one on the road to confirm my initial feelings, or otherwise
Water Fairy said:
sidesauce said:
o be fair, it's you that sounds like the fragile one seeing as you started with the ad hominems first... just saying.
Nonsense and coming from you of all people I'll sleep easy tonight.I'm genuinely curious.
I've had 13 BMWs inc 6 M cars and I like the new M3/4 I even like the new 7 series and have an LCI 7 series with the big grilles currently, but I can't understand this cars styling nor the launch colour scheme of gold and blue with that clashing terracotta dash roll top.
It's a 150k BMW that isn't doing the numbers against the competition either in looks, performance or brand cache, yes I get that some wealthy young funky people maybe drawn to it but surely that's a small market but perhaps that's what they want, a big noise (good or bad) and a low volume to keep it exclusive without having to turn buyers away.
It's a 150k BMW that isn't doing the numbers against the competition either in looks, performance or brand cache, yes I get that some wealthy young funky people maybe drawn to it but surely that's a small market but perhaps that's what they want, a big noise (good or bad) and a low volume to keep it exclusive without having to turn buyers away.
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