RE: Can't get no love from me | PH Footnote
Discussion
Puddenchucker said:
Interesting that they're all US TV shows. (You missed Magnum !)
What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
Absolutely. A Ferrari 308 ok the sunny roads of Hawaii. He must have been loving life! What were our contemporary homegrown shows that featured cars an integral or significant part of them?
The Professionals
The Sweeny
The Saint
Like a lot of things in society these days, the car thing seems really polarised and polarising. A lot of car enthusiasts seem to be so scared of what EVs might mean for them in the future that they get really angry about them. That puts a lot of kids who are interested in cars and driving off car culture, and like everything else these days, causes them to pick a side.
I really hope that this is a temporary situation and that in 10 years time when there are cheap used EVs to play with, and the culture/tech around modifying has caught up, that we’ll find an accommodating middle ground again.
My kids haven’t shown any interest in owning cars of their own. We/they live where there’s good public transport and the costs of ownership just don’t stack up. It doesn’t mean that they don’t like cars though, and they’re keen to drive ours when they can. I don’t think they’ll ever own an ICE vehicle - apparently they don’t like the noise and smell!
I really hope that this is a temporary situation and that in 10 years time when there are cheap used EVs to play with, and the culture/tech around modifying has caught up, that we’ll find an accommodating middle ground again.
My kids haven’t shown any interest in owning cars of their own. We/they live where there’s good public transport and the costs of ownership just don’t stack up. It doesn’t mean that they don’t like cars though, and they’re keen to drive ours when they can. I don’t think they’ll ever own an ICE vehicle - apparently they don’t like the noise and smell!
LBW2020 said:
Young people dont have the money. They are the worst paid, have to save the most to buy a house, end up in the most debt from university, and are now faced with some of the worst driving vehicles in the history of motoring, the plethora of s
t SUV's they have been driven around in by their parents, and now after all that they will get charged for every city they drive in and have to buy a ludicrously expensive 3 tonne st box if they can stump up the funds, all this plus insurance costs which are a grand for a 1 lite 20 year old fiesta ! A tesla is the most expensive insurance group....imagine being 17 and asking for a quote, url that will be 10k sir.....
I wouldn't drive under that influence either
The government wants 20 something in debt, and manageable so they can be good slave units to the workforce of the rich ! They want them sat at home jerking off and working on teams 20 hours a day....
Stick that in your hashtag !
Great post. I'd add to that, the young don't vote tory, so they are being sacrificed so that the Government can keep the boomers (and to a lesser extent Gen X) who do vote for them happy. t SUV's they have been driven around in by their parents, and now after all that they will get charged for every city they drive in and have to buy a ludicrously expensive 3 tonne st box if they can stump up the funds, all this plus insurance costs which are a grand for a 1 lite 20 year old fiesta ! A tesla is the most expensive insurance group....imagine being 17 and asking for a quote, url that will be 10k sir.....I wouldn't drive under that influence either
The government wants 20 something in debt, and manageable so they can be good slave units to the workforce of the rich ! They want them sat at home jerking off and working on teams 20 hours a day....
Stick that in your hashtag !
Interestingly I know of two young lads under the age of 20 who have bought modern classic Jap cars as their first car. One is an NB MX5 and the other a Mk2 MR2. That gives me some hope that the flame will stay alight at least with some of Gen Z....
I have to say, from my limited sample of life in Central Scotland - where a car is still a requirement to get anywhere other than the centre of Edinburgh/Glasgow in a reasonable period of time - my eldest son isn't that interested but has inherited my Fiesta ST & drives it daily. Both daughters have Mini's, absolutely love them, and see them as essential for their freedom/independence.
All of my daughter's friends have cars, and the boyfriends they've had are car daft.
So I don't see it as all doom & gloom from here.
All of my daughter's friends have cars, and the boyfriends they've had are car daft.
So I don't see it as all doom & gloom from here.
cerb4.5lee said:
ChocolateFrog said:
As a 17 year old I was on about £4.50ph (double on Sundays).
What's the minimum wage these days? £9.something, so less than double, yet the same stuff is atleast 4x more expensive.
Car insurance seems a lot more expensive nowadays for younger people as well(and me to be fair!). What's the minimum wage these days? £9.something, so less than double, yet the same stuff is atleast 4x more expensive.
I imagine it's not primarily the cost of the car for a typical teenage driver, it;s the insurance and running costs. A £1000 banger hatchback will probably cost more than that to insure in the first year, then you have fuel and any rudimentary servicing/repairs on wages that are probably not that great for most kids.
There is also an amount of 'can't be bothered' with today's teenagers who would rather take the bus, taxi or relatives giving lifts. This also applies to living at home, with costs and the drop in comfort/lifestyle of moving into their own accommodation.
Several friends offspring didn't learn to drive until they were in their early twenties, I couldn't wait to get out on the road on the morning of my 17th birthday. How times change, it's just the way of the world.
There is also an amount of 'can't be bothered' with today's teenagers who would rather take the bus, taxi or relatives giving lifts. This also applies to living at home, with costs and the drop in comfort/lifestyle of moving into their own accommodation.
Several friends offspring didn't learn to drive until they were in their early twenties, I couldn't wait to get out on the road on the morning of my 17th birthday. How times change, it's just the way of the world.
this is my cupra born, it looks nice and has instant torque and is fast at low speeds as well as being pretty refined and quiet but it's very boring
some young people still like cars but outside of the modified car scene it's mainly just status symbols
interestingly chris harris and steve sutcliffe both prefer the rimac nevera to the aston valk or bugatti chiron so I think in terms of EV's being boring prehaps it's just the 2,000hp ones that are fun?
Angelo1985 said:
So, young people do not like cars as we used to do at their age therefore don’t buy them, modern cars are heavy and cost an awful lot more than in the past, the petrol is very expensive…but the fault is in the electric car?
Fighting windmills like Don Quixote
It's called inflation, relative to wages cars have not got more expensive.Fighting windmills like Don Quixote
There are also a fair number of factors getting conflated.
1: Fewer young people drive, this is basically driven by a number of factors but it's mainly driven by driving bring more expensive in terms of insurance and paying the test. The cost bring both in time and money. However broadly speaking plenty of young people still drive.
2: The mystique/cachet of driving is reducing particularly for the young. The roads are much busier, a lot of what drew young people into car culture was the freedom of opening your own means of transport and the pleasure of driving a car fill of mates. It's no fun being stuck in traffic or rolling traffic at 10mph below the speed limit.
3: A lot of car culture was ultimately built around modifying your Vauxhall Nova or similar. This has been greatly diminished partly because most cars built since about 2000 have been good and if you want a sportier suspension or alloys just buy the car with those options fitted. When a basic saloon car can crack 140 and a GTI has 4wd and 350bhp you can't put a body kit on your 1.2 and pretend that you have a fast car anymore. Ergo the cost/benefit of modifying your road car has gone down over time. Electric cars will kill this totally when your people carrier has 1000bhp.
Looking at where car culture is going I think it's moving to be more based on off road driving (track, drifting and dirt) and on resto mods and similar which can be enjoyed on roads.
Olibol said:
I really hope that this is a temporary situation and that in 10 years time when there are cheap used EVs to play with, and the culture/tech around modifying has caught up, that we’ll find an accommodating middle ground again.
Tesla's have been around for 10+years, you can get suspension upgrades but nobody has really been able to push performance upgrades to the motors and batteries.These things are already highly optimised so to improve them you pretty much have to swap them in totality.
Also given the performance of these first generation machines it is likely that all EVs will end up offering outrageous performance to the degree that it's not really a differentiator in 10-20 years.
My god, that article is a tough read. I can see what the author was trying to do, with all the 80's motoring journo similes and witticisms, but I feel that kind of reporting is as outdated as the small petrol hatchbacks they refer to.
That aside, my biggest struggle with this type of car is dealing with the concept of how a "normal" person can consider buying a used one in a few years, without it being an utterly miserable and financially kamikaze undertaking; Without a completely comprehensive warranty, that leaves only tyres and brakes as consumable items, I cannot see how this wouldn't be a ruinous undertaking.
That aside, my biggest struggle with this type of car is dealing with the concept of how a "normal" person can consider buying a used one in a few years, without it being an utterly miserable and financially kamikaze undertaking; Without a completely comprehensive warranty, that leaves only tyres and brakes as consumable items, I cannot see how this wouldn't be a ruinous undertaking.
It all basically boils down to finances.
Vast majority of people in this country under 25 take home probably less than £1500 a month before they even pay into their pension.
Basic 5 year old car roughly £200 a month on personal loan (Likely more now)
Tax £10 per month
Fuel £100 a month
Maintenance, tyres go boom fund £100 a month
Insurance for under 25 £100-200 a month
Total rough monthly cost £510-610
That leaves £900-1000 if you’re doing well to take car rent, food, having fun and a bit of savings. God help you if you have kids or need to save a house deposit. Cars are a luxury that are just not worth it.
Unless you have the bank of mum and dad helping you it’s very tough for young people out there.
Vast majority of people in this country under 25 take home probably less than £1500 a month before they even pay into their pension.
Basic 5 year old car roughly £200 a month on personal loan (Likely more now)
Tax £10 per month
Fuel £100 a month
Maintenance, tyres go boom fund £100 a month
Insurance for under 25 £100-200 a month
Total rough monthly cost £510-610
That leaves £900-1000 if you’re doing well to take car rent, food, having fun and a bit of savings. God help you if you have kids or need to save a house deposit. Cars are a luxury that are just not worth it.
Unless you have the bank of mum and dad helping you it’s very tough for young people out there.
A great article, but just scratched the surface. I had my first driving lesson on my 17th birthday, and passed first time a few months later. My kids? 28 and no interest, but her fiance does drive and has a car, so that works for them. But she gets the bus to work, it's £2 each way and takes about 5 minutes longer than driving would, assuming she could find a parking spot. My other is 25, again no interest, but again he has mates that drive and have cars. He cycled or got the bus to work.
If they've been to uni they are saddled with loan repayments; I don't know the details but that probably stops them wanting further repayments.
When did you last enjoy a drive - without taking a risk or breaking a few laws? Traffic volume has doubled in 30 years, what new roads are built are either motorways or safe sensible roads.
Cars themselves are all heavier, and more complicated. Your kids might want a 20 year old MX5, but you'd rather it was a 5 or 10 year old Golf.
If they've been to uni they are saddled with loan repayments; I don't know the details but that probably stops them wanting further repayments.
When did you last enjoy a drive - without taking a risk or breaking a few laws? Traffic volume has doubled in 30 years, what new roads are built are either motorways or safe sensible roads.
Cars themselves are all heavier, and more complicated. Your kids might want a 20 year old MX5, but you'd rather it was a 5 or 10 year old Golf.
Speedgirl said:
hoonatic said:
Marc p said:
I’ve always said that most of those who say they ‘aren’t into cars’, are just people that haven’t driven the right car. If my only experience of cars was 1.2 Corsa’s, diesel Mondeo’s and Renault Scenics, I’d probably have no interest in them either.
Not sure I agree with that. My love affair with cars started with a pedal car I simply HAD to take up and down the garden path before I would eat breakfast. My first (and second) car was a Hillman Imp (showing my age now). I enjoyed taking that to its (enjoyably low) limit at every opportunity and I've enjoyed my cars the same way until this day. OK, I'm fortunate enough to have owned Alfas, Audis, Porsches, Jags, TVRs and Astons, but I can honestly say I've enjoyed them ALL in pretty equal measure. Hell, I even like ringing some hire car's neck on occasion. I've never even tried an electric car (no opportunity), but from reviews I've read, I suspect the only thing I would miss is the noise.
. So I was destined to have a love of cars.As a real world example of someone raised differently, I have a friend of mine that, when we first met many years ago when working together, he had absolutely no interest in cars(he was driving a Suzuki WagonR at the time
). As time went on my influence took a hold and when he was looking for a new car and wanting something bigger, he was asking for my advice, however he was still looking at mundane stuff. So as I had my Impreza at the time, I told him to borrow it for the weekend, Monday came around and he had the biggest smile on his face, within a month he’d bought one for himself and over the next year he started modifying it, going on track days and becoming a full blown petrol head.I haven’t seen him for a couple of years now, but last time I saw him, he was rocking an Exige as his Sunday/track car and a lovely V10 M5 touring as the daily.
Good article. I think there is another factor which is a combination of desire and need. It's almost 50 years since I passed my test. Being able to drive and ultimately have my own "wheels" was the ticket to freedom and fun. At the time family had just moved to a rural area so being mobile was a really big deal. Previously one's bike was the equivalent ticket; getting out and about, exploring and seeking adventure.
I don't think having wheels, or access to, is quite the same deal for today's 17 year olds.
I don't think having wheels, or access to, is quite the same deal for today's 17 year olds.
I grew up in a boring provincial Scottish town and, at 17, I was desperate to get my licence and then my first car. It gave me a sense of freedom and independence, something to do (me and my mates would sometimes just hoon around the local B roads) and a way of travelling all over Scotland, then England then France. The roads were empty. Cars, petrol and insurance were cheap. And speeding enforcement was almost non-existent.
My son's now 18 and living in London. He's got tubes, buses, trains, Lime Bikes and Ubers on his doorstep. He can zig zag all over the city with ease. Flights are cheap and he can easily jump on one from Heathrow, Stantead, Luton or Gatwick. He can connect virtually with any of his mates any time he wants of hook up with them almost anywhere in London in under an hour. Driving just isn't a priority for him or his generation in the same way it was for me.
My son's now 18 and living in London. He's got tubes, buses, trains, Lime Bikes and Ubers on his doorstep. He can zig zag all over the city with ease. Flights are cheap and he can easily jump on one from Heathrow, Stantead, Luton or Gatwick. He can connect virtually with any of his mates any time he wants of hook up with them almost anywhere in London in under an hour. Driving just isn't a priority for him or his generation in the same way it was for me.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff