Motability

[The Rotrex Kid]

119 said:

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

That’s not true.

Most Motability vehicles have 1,2 max 3 drivers as they have to be named on the insurance. A very small number have ‘open insurance’ - normally for someone receiving 24 hour care or in a home with multiple carers but these policies are rare and need to be specifically applied for.

[119]

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

I assume they have to have a licence and insurance?

D’ya think?

[Earthdweller]

KingNothing said:

Aren't Motability making massive losses after years of making hundreds of millions of profit now? How does that happen when your customer numbers are the highest they've ever been?

Because they've gone all in on EV's the residual values of which have tanked

[Super Sonic]

119 said:

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

I assume they have to have a licence and insurance?

D’ya think?

My car's not motability, but if somebody has a license and insurance, and I give them permission, near enough anyone can use it.
What was your point?

[119]

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

I assume they have to have a licence and insurance?

D’ya think?

My car's not motability, but if somebody has a license and insurance, and I give them permission, near enough anyone can use it.
What was your point?

Seriously?

[Super Sonic]

119 said:

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

I assume they have to have a licence and insurance?

D’ya think?

My car's not motability, but if somebody has a license and insurance, and I give them permission, near enough anyone can use it.
What was your point?

Seriously?

So no point. OK.

Edited by Super Sonic on Thursday 13th March 19:11

[don'tbesilly]

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

Your “turns out” is just nonsense.

A Motability participant can allow 3 other drivers in addition to themselves, all three must have been approved by DirectLines criteria and be named as a permitted driver on the Certificate of Motor Insurance.

Only 1 of the 3 can be under 21.

Even with their own insurance policy “anyone” can’t drive a Motability car unless they are a named driver under the Motability’s insurance policy.

“Anyone” driving a Motability car is doing so uninsured, even with the “owner’s” permission. (The car is not “owned”, it’s a lease.

[119]

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

Super Sonic said:

119 said:

I went to look at a one owner Motability and whilst it was serviced up to date, it was one of the worse condition cars I looked at.

Turns out, near enough anyone can use them with the ‘owners’ permission.

I assume they have to have a licence and insurance?

D’ya think?

My car's not motability, but if somebody has a license and insurance, and I give them permission, near enough anyone can use it.
What was your point?

Seriously?

[Silvanus]

My wife qualifies for the higher mobility rate of PIP, was a pretty awful process having to go through the application.

To be honest we'd rather didn't qualify, that would mean she wouldn't be slowly dying of cancer in her early 40's.

I know other people who rely on PIP and a Motability car, so that they can actually be able to work and contribute. These are the people who are most likely to suffer from a freeze in PIP, or more hoops to jump through.

I'm far reforming the welfare system so that people can be helped into work and ultimately being better off than if they remained on them. Problem is it's almost certainly going to to penalise the very people that have no option than to rely on welfare.

They need to work out why their is an increase in people claiming and support those people into work. Whether its a physical condition or a mental health issue, these people need support. We need more trained people to help, doctors, nurses, therapists, training opportunities, social housing etc. When that is sorted, people will be physically and mentally able to work and then welfare reforms can be introduced.

Don't penalise the people in society that most need help and support, you never know if or when you may be that person.

[FezOnYourHeadFezOnMyDrive]

Silvanus said:

My wife qualifies for the higher mobility rate of PIP, was a pretty awful process having to go through the application.

To be honest we'd rather didn't qualify, that would mean she wouldn't be slowly dying of cancer in her early 40's.

I know other people who rely on PIP and a Motability car, so that they can actually be able to work and contribute. These are the people who are most likely to suffer from a freeze in PIP, or more hoops to jump through.

I'm far reforming the welfare system so that people can be helped into work and ultimately being better off than if they remained on them. Problem is it's almost certainly going to to penalise the very people that have no option than to rely on welfare.

They need to work out why their is an increase in people claiming and support those people into work. Whether its a physical condition or a mental health issue, these people need support. We need more trained people to help, doctors, nurses, therapists, training opportunities, social housing etc. When that is sorted, people will be physically and mentally able to work and then welfare reforms can be introduced.

Don't penalise the people in society that most need help and support, you never know if or when you may be that person.

I wish more people understood this issue as you - and I - do.

Nobody actively wants to need or rely on PIP, but ill-health can happen to anyone at any time. It's refreshing to read a viewpoint filled with compassion and understanding on these topics when it'd be so easy to bemoan 'scroungers' or a similarly dismissive title.

[MG CHRIS]

Another thing that seriously needs to change is the dealers attitudes in servicing motab vehicles. The clearly blatant fraud that goes on within up selling work is just out and out fraud. Check the service records of most motab cars and you see low mileage vehicles often with new discs and pads being replaced at first services for example. This happens daily and in most dealers ive been in the theme follows. The amount of money the scheme pays out on repairs without any question on why its being done needs to be looked into along with potential fraud by general public.

[Silvanus]

MG CHRIS said:

Another thing that seriously needs to change is the dealers attitudes in servicing motab vehicles. The clearly blatant fraud that goes on within up selling work is just out and out fraud. Check the service records of most motab cars and you see low mileage vehicles often with new discs and pads being replaced at first services for example. This happens daily and in most dealers ive been in the theme follows. The amount of money the scheme pays out on repairs without any question on why its being done needs to be looked into along with potential fraud by general public.

Isn't that an issue between Motability and the supplying dealers? It doesn't cost the person who has the vehicle any extra?

[119]

Silvanus said:

MG CHRIS said:

Another thing that seriously needs to change is the dealers attitudes in servicing motab vehicles. The clearly blatant fraud that goes on within up selling work is just out and out fraud. Check the service records of most motab cars and you see low mileage vehicles often with new discs and pads being replaced at first services for example. This happens daily and in most dealers ive been in the theme follows. The amount of money the scheme pays out on repairs without any question on why its being done needs to be looked into along with potential fraud by general public.

Isn't that an issue between Motability and the supplying dealers? It doesn't cost the person who has the vehicle any extra?

No it doesnt but the one i looked at had wiper blades replaced at 2k miles when it was new and as above, new discs and pads every 9k miles.

[MG CHRIS]

Silvanus said:

MG CHRIS said:

Another thing that seriously needs to change is the dealers attitudes in servicing motab vehicles. The clearly blatant fraud that goes on within up selling work is just out and out fraud. Check the service records of most motab cars and you see low mileage vehicles often with new discs and pads being replaced at first services for example. This happens daily and in most dealers ive been in the theme follows. The amount of money the scheme pays out on repairs without any question on why its being done needs to be looked into along with potential fraud by general public.

Isn't that an issue between Motability and the supplying dealers? It doesn't cost the person who has the vehicle any extra?

Thats my point it costs motability for extra work that just made up so techs and dealerships can make targets.

[James_N]

yme402 said:

Valid points, but I don’t think taxpayers should be criticised for wanting to drill down on where their hard earned money goes…especially in these current times where the tax burden seems to be ever increasing. And I don’t just mean on the higher rate component of disability living allowance, but every corner of the welfare system that they fund.

I have a Motability car - A Juke.

Very reassuring to me, knowing I have a fully maintained car, and as geeks says, we don't exactly walk into a dealer and pick the nicest thing.

When I ordered my Juke, out of interest, i enquired about the Ariya and if anyone had ordered one (purely because I liked it, but the upfront payment at the time was £6k!). I've never seen the point paying whacking great upfront payments for these cars, as they are never yours and you hand them back after 3 years. Frankly, as long as it moves, I'm not bothered what it is, it's merely a form of transport.

Funnily enough, i like the AMI, great for around town, but i wouldn't get the kids in it for the school run, so no, it wouldn't do for all disabled people, and I visit a relative in Kidderminster most weekends, the AMI isnt allowed on the motorway, so again wouldn't suite!

and just for the record, I work - have always worked from the age of 18, save for 12 months when my mum was dying of cancer - I claimed unemployment during that period, which was no money at all really, and after that, went straight back to work again, so i like to think I have paid more than my fair share in taxes. My job is NHS admin based, but I cant do anything that requires standing for long periods or manual labour.

Not all disabled people are lazy, sit at home slobs!

Schemes like this will always be abused however, but those that aren't abusing it, have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about.

[Sway]

James_N said:

Schemes like this will always be abused however, but those that aren't abusing it, have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, that's just not true.

Nothing to do with Motability, but the PIP enabler for it.

Mrs Sway had a Motorbility car, with hand controls due to some pretty insane corrective and reconstructive surgeries. As you can imagine, there were 'waves' of surgery, rehabilitation, recovery and then more surgery.

The entire treatment path (over nearly six years) was known as part of the PIP assessment which granted higher rate mobility component.

Then, two years into the journey, she was thrown a reassessment - right at the narrow (literally weeks) window where she had recovered from the last surgery prior to the next one.

It got removed. Dropped to her 'baseline' lower rate mobility. So, car back within two weeks or fines.

Was told 'reapply when you're fked again' - which of course is way too long a process, frankly horrifically draining, and liable to initial refusal/appeal/etc.

She just wasn't up to it. She was going through enough. So she just gave up having that support and ability to actually travel.

The s.

Again, nothing to do with Motability, and yes - she probably should have lied in her reassessment, but that's just not her.

[geeks]

Sway said:

James_N said:

Schemes like this will always be abused however, but those that aren't abusing it, have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, that's just not true.

Nothing to do with Motability, but the PIP enabler for it.

Mrs Sway had a Motorbility car, with hand controls due to some pretty insane corrective and reconstructive surgeries. As you can imagine, there were 'waves' of surgery, rehabilitation, recovery and then more surgery.

The entire treatment path (over nearly six years) was known as part of the PIP assessment which granted higher rate mobility component.

Then, two years into the journey, she was thrown a reassessment - right at the narrow (literally weeks) window where she had recovered from the last surgery prior to the next one.

It got removed. Dropped to her 'baseline' lower rate mobility. So, car back within two weeks or fines.

Was told 'reapply when you're fked again' - which of course is way too long a process, frankly horrifically draining, and liable to initial refusal/appeal/etc.

She just wasn't up to it. She was going through enough. So she just gave up having that support and ability to actually travel.

The s.

Again, nothing to do with Motability, and yes - she probably should have lied in her reassessment, but that's just not her.

Sway, I am so sorry to read this, we had a pretty tough time with Mrs geeks "assessment" during covid, the way she was treated was fking disgusting frankly, the report that came through was a complete work of fiction, nothing matched her actual answers, you aren't allowed to have a copy of the recording, had we been able to it would have shown actual fraud on the assessors part. While we were going through the appeal process Motability were fantastic, again a shame to read how you got no support from them as well.

I hope she is now on the up and up, don't let the fkers grind you down!

[James_N]

Sway said:

Unfortunately, that's just not true.

Nothing to do with Motability, but the PIP enabler for it.

I think i was more referring to people in my position with a permanent disability (cerebral palsy), but yes the whole assessment thing is a load of rubbish and as you say, hard to get copies of recordings etc for it. I sometimes don't know how the assessors come to their conclusions!

[Riley Blue]

geeks said:

Sway, I am so sorry to read this, we had a pretty tough time with Mrs geeks "assessment" during covid, the way she was treated was fking disgusting frankly, the report that came through was a complete work of fiction, nothing matched her actual answers, you aren't allowed to have a copy of the recording, had we been able to it would have shown actual fraud on the assessors part. While we were going through the appeal process Motability were fantastic, again a shame to read how you got no support from them as well.

I hope she is now on the up and up, don't let the fkers grind you down!

Without wishing to drift too far from the topic, PIP assessments are carried out by Capita on behalf of the DWP.

[Silvanus]

geeks said:

Sway said:

James_N said:

Schemes like this will always be abused however, but those that aren't abusing it, have nothing to hide and nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, that's just not true.

Nothing to do with Motability, but the PIP enabler for it.

Mrs Sway had a Motorbility car, with hand controls due to some pretty insane corrective and reconstructive surgeries. As you can imagine, there were 'waves' of surgery, rehabilitation, recovery and then more surgery.

The entire treatment path (over nearly six years) was known as part of the PIP assessment which granted higher rate mobility component.

Then, two years into the journey, she was thrown a reassessment - right at the narrow (literally weeks) window where she had recovered from the last surgery prior to the next one.

It got removed. Dropped to her 'baseline' lower rate mobility. So, car back within two weeks or fines.

Was told 'reapply when you're fked again' - which of course is way too long a process, frankly horrifically draining, and liable to initial refusal/appeal/etc.

She just wasn't up to it. She was going through enough. So she just gave up having that support and ability to actually travel.

The s.

Again, nothing to do with Motability, and yes - she probably should have lied in her reassessment, but that's just not her.

Sway, I am so sorry to read this, we had a pretty tough time with Mrs geeks "assessment" during covid, the way she was treated was fking disgusting frankly, the report that came through was a complete work of fiction, nothing matched her actual answers, you aren't allowed to have a copy of the recording, had we been able to it would have shown actual fraud on the assessors part. While we were going through the appeal process Motability were fantastic, again a shame to read how you got no support from them as well.

I hope she is now on the up and up, don't let the fkers grind you down!

I do wonder how all these alleged welfare abusers actually manage to actually game the system. It's a bloody awful, humiliating degrading experience. I know there is a very wide range of conditions from physical disabilities/obese, through to neuro/mental health, but it must be really quite difficult and complex to cheat your way to higher rate PIP.

I agree that there are reforms needed and a crackdown on anyone who manages to claim fraudulently. But this needs to go hand in hand with reforming how claimants are cared for and supported. There isn't enough help or support for people with complex needs, or require adjustments to enable them to work. The vast majority of people on PIP who are unable to work (a large percentage of people on PIP are actually in full or part time work), would love to be in work. Any reforms or reduction in payments needs to be done alongside improving healthcare, mental health/neuro services, community services and job training.

Any reforms also need to make sure its always more financially beneficial to work, regardless of hours worked. It should be a gradual taper in welfare payments rather than sudden drops that make it very difficult for someone to take that step into employment.

It's obviously a very complicated issue and you can never please all the people all that time. But stigmatising people who are on welfare or rely on a Mobility vehicle stinks, they are vulnerable people who require help and support, not cheap targets for populist political headlines. Supporting our vulnerable is what marks has marked us out as a great nation. I know that this can also draw in negatives and attract people who want to abuse the system, but they are a minority, not majority.

Lets fix the problem of why there is a problem of increasing numbers of people claiming welfare due to health and disabilities before we start to punish them and make their life harder.