An epidemic of insanely slow drivers
Discussion
Tom8 said:
theplayingmantis said:
Tom8 said:
theplayingmantis said:
Caddyshack said:
LARK F1 GTR said:
I've suddenly had an imaginary 20 MPH limit rolled out. I managed to go over a couple of speed humps the other day behind a Vauxhall Adam mooching along at 12 MPH. I had enough of that so I over took them and drove normally.
And a big shout out to the idiots between Thurrock & Rainham who think that NSL is 35 MPH. It f
king well isn't!! They don't speed up when it's NSL or even get to 40 when it goes back down again.
Hindhead tunnel shows NSL and it s a dual carriageway with central reservation (actually a huge tunnel wall) but as it s an average speed camera area people don t know their rules and drive through at an exact 60 .i wouldn t mind if they moved to the left as they should and got out of the way for people who know they can do 70 but they hog the outside lane. And a big shout out to the idiots between Thurrock & Rainham who think that NSL is 35 MPH. It f
king well isn't!! They don't speed up when it's NSL or even get to 40 when it goes back down again. I undertook on my motorbike recently after a I flashed as someone was doing 55 outside lane with clear inside and he went a bit mad flashing as I made off for quite some time and still hogging that lane with other drivers backing up behind him. I only flashed him once as a wake up, waited, then moved left and slowly went past with a Paddington bear stare.
if its someone who has moved right to overtake something in the distance (probably as they have acc on and don't want it to kick in needlessly!) and has ample opportunity to move over then back out again to let faster traffic past (the wait your turn mob, even though they could and should move left then out again, usually a bloke of a certain age - obviously not an issue if the vehicle cannot do the limit - HGV for example) and undertaking is not a 'safe' option (but them moving left and then back out would easily still be), then i leave the indicator on rather than flash.
in this scenario more umbrage will be taken by some who are lazy, as they are notionally in the OT lane for a reason, albeit either needlessly early, or they cant be bothered to move in then out again whilst overtaking a spaced out train of vehicles.
if its someone going absolutely know where speed matching what they are overtaking, which I've experienced a couple of times on the a30 and a12 recenetly, they get the full beams after a while. usually they are on the phone or fiddling with something and often 'professional' drivers...
John D. said:
Tom8 said:
The other common issue with not overtaking is keeping a huge distance between the slow vehicle and the car which should overtake. Followed a tractor last night and the Honda Jazz two cars ahead would not get closer than say 50m. Car behind wouldn't overtake either so no one has a chance unless you come across a long extended straight.
A big gap is normally preferable to too small a gap IME. Then you have a gap to drop into rather than having to pass multiple vehicles in one go. You can be confident the driver leaving the gap isn't about to pull out and overtake themselves as well. Caddyshack said:
xx99xx said:
Not often, maybe about once a year and it's more likely on a motorway. The last time it occurred I was in lane 1 (of 4) at 60mph and the flasher was just too lazy to overtake as his exit was coming up about half a mile away. Hence I just ignore it.
I mentioned tailgating - because whenever I see cars getting the impatient flash (usually from my relaxing vantage point of lane 1), the impatient car is more often than not tailgating or has been/is about to, as the flashing hasn't had the desired result.
The flash is not asking anyone to speed up. It is a wake up call that you are behind and they are in the outside lane when the inside is clear and they should have moved over.I mentioned tailgating - because whenever I see cars getting the impatient flash (usually from my relaxing vantage point of lane 1), the impatient car is more often than not tailgating or has been/is about to, as the flashing hasn't had the desired result.
I think many lane hoggers are just stupid but some drivers have dropped in to a subconscious type of hypnosis, their mind is elsewhere and just haven t realised they should move over. Sometimes, they wake up and get out of the way and they get a nice thank you
Telling that other posters are using the word impatient and other emotive words to describe those doing no wrong.
It's a typical sign of a road captain. Im not saying xx is as sitting in L1 and being flashed makes no sense. Unless perhaps someone was dangerously slow in which case a horn would be more appropriate, but others saying it yes probably followed by a nice moronic brake check simply for being reminded to drive properly.
John D. said:
Tom8 said:
The other common issue with not overtaking is keeping a huge distance between the slow vehicle and the car which should overtake. Followed a tractor last night and the Honda Jazz two cars ahead would not get closer than say 50m. Car behind wouldn't overtake either so no one has a chance unless you come across a long extended straight.
A big gap is normally preferable to too small a gap IME. Then you have a gap to drop into rather than having to pass multiple vehicles in one go. You can be confident the driver leaving the gap isn't about to pull out and overtake themselves as well. raspy said:
silencepoint said:
Yes.
But there's a trick on how you do it. A polite quick single flash on the beams and people are likely to move left and let you pass. However, if you just hold them on full beam then people usually tend to double down and hold the lane OR slow down further or brake check.
In my case, if a quick flash causes them to double down then they get the full beams until they move out the way. Or if possible I will always undertake them and get on with it.
Flashing your lights when behind people isn't "polite" - it's aggressive. You are impatient, that's all. But there's a trick on how you do it. A polite quick single flash on the beams and people are likely to move left and let you pass. However, if you just hold them on full beam then people usually tend to double down and hold the lane OR slow down further or brake check.
In my case, if a quick flash causes them to double down then they get the full beams until they move out the way. Or if possible I will always undertake them and get on with it.
I bet you wouldn't flash a police car that was driving in front of you at a speed slower than you would like, so why do it to other motorists?
Surely it's a helpful reminder to them and also helps other drivers behind (if lane hog wakes up)who will be impacted by someone hogging lanes needlessly and thus causing congestion, wasted time for those using the road network for work/haulage and ultimately an impact on the economy and all our taxes...if we want to get silly.
SpeedBash said:
The article goes on about safety as usual, which is almost completely missing the point. The real purpose of the 20 limits is to redraw the boundaries of motor vehicles in urban areas and/or discourage the use of certain roads/routes.Whether you agree with this or not (and there are reasonable arguments on both sides - which will obviously vary according to the exact circumstances), it is very strange that ‘the authorities’ - and I include the BBC in that - seem afraid of exposing the public to the real story.
The other part of the article is about compliance and comes up with some faux psychology. However, the real reason that people get caught breaking low speed limits is incompetence. We can all make an error and get caught, but a large number of drivers largely ignore road signage and have little interest in driving anyway. They will be caught because the limit is something different to their expectations.
Tom8 said:
John D. said:
Tom8 said:
The other common issue with not overtaking is keeping a huge distance between the slow vehicle and the car which should overtake. Followed a tractor last night and the Honda Jazz two cars ahead would not get closer than say 50m. Car behind wouldn't overtake either so no one has a chance unless you come across a long extended straight.
A big gap is normally preferable to too small a gap IME. Then you have a gap to drop into rather than having to pass multiple vehicles in one go. You can be confident the driver leaving the gap isn't about to pull out and overtake themselves as well. Foss62 said:
SpeedBash said:
The article goes on about safety as usual, which is almost completely missing the point. The real purpose of the 20 limits is to redraw the boundaries of motor vehicles in urban areas and/or discourage the use of certain roads/routes.Whether you agree with this or not (and there are reasonable arguments on both sides - which will obviously vary according to the exact circumstances), it is very strange that the authorities - and I include the BBC in that - seem afraid of exposing the public to the real story.
The other part of the article is about compliance and comes up with some faux psychology. However, the real reason that people get caught breaking low speed limits is incompetence. We can all make an error and get caught, but a large number of drivers largely ignore road signage and have little interest in driving anyway. They will be caught because the limit is something different to their expectations.
I recognise the be benefits of lower speeds in built up areas. Roads do feel quieter/more civilised at lower speeds when I am a pedestrian. But councils are pretty poor at communicating this "real" purpose and instead talk primarily of safety. Eg TFL's research referenced in the article.
Why is the psychology fake? There are roads with 20mph limits where 20mph does feel painfully slow. I would not include shopping streets/primarily residential streets in this category. But there are many roads that act as major through routes but also have houses on them. Very often the hazard density does not suit 20mph.
Of course the mixed function of through routes/residential/shopping streets is a planning lapse. But that's another discussion .
Foss62 said:
The other part of the article is about compliance and comes up with some faux psychology. However, the real reason that people get caught breaking low speed limits is incompetence.
Some say limits are deliberately badly set for revenue generation.I wouldn't go that far, but a lot of UK limits ignore the science
of the 85% rule. This means 85% of the traffic is below the limit.
When a limit is exceeded by most traffic, it's the wrong limit.
The article mentions that 45% of traffic exceeds the 70 mph limit,
so the limit needs changing to 80 (or maybe 90) mph to catch up
with reality and be safer.
Also, some 90% of drivers exceed the 20 mph. Wrong limit again.
The 20mph limits do feel painfully slow, having to crawl along in 2nd gear with the engine revving uncomfortably high (certainly not helping reduce greenhouse gasses) as it would be bogged down almost to stalling speed in 3rd or have to keep braking if even slightly downhill to avoid speeding up too much.
Often wonder if a pit lane speed limiter style button would help that could be set to a limit and cruise control does the rest.
Often wonder if a pit lane speed limiter style button would help that could be set to a limit and cruise control does the rest.
theplayingmantis said:
Wardy78 said:
theplayingmantis said:
If you have no interest in doing the limit, often needless braking and wasting road space when overtaking I guess your right!
Are you replying to me? Because that is all utter bks if you are?Oh, and it's either "you're" or "it's your right"
keeping acc and not wishing it to activate means you need to change lane to overtake far too early ime even with lowest following calibration. as others have stated elsewhere to avoid creeping slow braking you need to all over exactly how close you to the distant car ahead, and if you pull out behind someone you have to override it or if someone pulls in in front of you despite them going faster and in the process of accelerating away, if its in the 'safe' distance zone the car has deemed ahead it will needlessly brake.
all of which are very distracting things and negate the benefits of CC. if you are happy to have the car brake needlessly in such scenarios, or be constantly on it to override them it seems to me make the benefits of cc pointless.
maintaining a speed without going over is the benefit of cc for me at least, allowing the driver to focus on maneuvering and reacting to obstacles (other vehicles) without worrying about speed generally. those reactions will involve braking and accelerating at times, but having acc adding in automatic braking is a nightmare. i cannot see any scenario where its beneficial if the driver is being attentive to their surroundings. perhaps heavy stop start traffic, but then i wouldn't trust it and would far rather rely on myself. if the calibration was sensible before automated braking kicks in then i would have less of an issue with it. to me it seems a tool for inattentive and or lazy drivers, if used without any manual override.
Edited by theplayingmantis on Tuesday 9th December 21:11
Edited by theplayingmantis on Tuesday 9th December 21:12
It keeps me up with traffic, would and does react quicker than I can, but makes the whole process far more relaxing. On very busy sections it's more a useful safety net and less useful, but on long quieter motorway journeys it's brilliant, if you use it properly and/or it's a good system (which it sounds like you/yours isn't.
Ditto in creeping traffic, it's really useful, IME.
theplayingmantis said:
Caddyshack said:
LARK F1 GTR said:
I've suddenly had an imaginary 20 MPH limit rolled out. I managed to go over a couple of speed humps the other day behind a Vauxhall Adam mooching along at 12 MPH. I had enough of that so I over took them and drove normally.
And a big shout out to the idiots between Thurrock & Rainham who think that NSL is 35 MPH. It fking well isn't!! They don't speed up when it's NSL or even get to 40 when it goes back down again.
Hindhead tunnel shows NSL and it s a dual carriageway with central reservation (actually a huge tunnel wall) but as it s an average speed camera area people don t know their rules and drive through at an exact 60 .i wouldn t mind if they moved to the left as they should and got out of the way for people who know they can do 70 but they hog the outside lane. And a big shout out to the idiots between Thurrock & Rainham who think that NSL is 35 MPH. It f
king well isn't!! They don't speed up when it's NSL or even get to 40 when it goes back down again. I undertook on my motorbike recently after a I flashed as someone was doing 55 outside lane with clear inside and he went a bit mad flashing as I made off for quite some time and still hogging that lane with other drivers backing up behind him. I only flashed him once as a wake up, waited, then moved left and slowly went past with a Paddington bear stare.
if its someone who has moved right to overtake something in the distance (probably as they have acc on and don't want it to kick in needlessly!) and has ample opportunity to move over then back out again to let faster traffic past (the wait your turn mob, even though they could and should move left then out again, usually a bloke of a certain age - obviously not an issue if the vehicle cannot do the limit - HGV for example) and undertaking is not a 'safe' option (but them moving left and then back out would easily still be), then i leave the indicator on rather than flash.
in this scenario more umbrage will be taken by some who are lazy, as they are notionally in the OT lane for a reason, albeit either needlessly early, or they cant be bothered to move in then out again whilst overtaking a spaced out train of vehicles.
if its someone going absolutely know where speed matching what they are overtaking, which I've experienced a couple of times on the a30 and a12 recenetly, they get the full beams after a while. usually they are on the phone or fiddling with something and often 'professional' drivers...
Maybe if you used a good ACC (and used it properly) it would ease that
Agreed they do feel painfully slow and that psychology about the flow state of it for me is totally true. I learnt to drive and it was all about progression and not being hesitant. Not speeding or taking liberties but not getting in the way and restricting traffic flow unnecessarily.
This seems to be something completely lost on most motorists these days. I can be miles/minutes ahead on short journeys, without speeding just by progressing properly on roundabouts, making lights and such.
20 limits, particularly on previously 40mph roads are the exact opposite of this. Not to mention the MPG of the matter. We keep hearing about being eco friendly etc. almost every car I've driven is ALOT more economical at 30mph than it is at 20mph let alone the difference between 40mph and someone crawling at 16mph worried to go near the limit.
This seems to be something completely lost on most motorists these days. I can be miles/minutes ahead on short journeys, without speeding just by progressing properly on roundabouts, making lights and such.
20 limits, particularly on previously 40mph roads are the exact opposite of this. Not to mention the MPG of the matter. We keep hearing about being eco friendly etc. almost every car I've driven is ALOT more economical at 30mph than it is at 20mph let alone the difference between 40mph and someone crawling at 16mph worried to go near the limit.
dcb said:
Foss62 said:
The other part of the article is about compliance and comes up with some faux psychology. However, the real reason that people get caught breaking low speed limits is incompetence.
Some say limits are deliberately badly set for revenue generation.I wouldn't go that far, but a lot of UK limits ignore the science
of the 85% rule. This means 85% of the traffic is below the limit.
When a limit is exceeded by most traffic, it's the wrong limit.
The article mentions that 45% of traffic exceeds the 70 mph limit,
so the limit needs changing to 80 (or maybe 90) mph to catch up
with reality and be safer.
Also, some 90% of drivers exceed the 20 mph. Wrong limit again.
It is of course possible that average speeds will always remain above 20 on a particular stretch of road, but I bet they always end up lower than when that road was a 30.
I was thinking the other day - I cannot remember the last time I joined a motorway at more than 40. Perhaps there has been a roll out of new speed limits for motorway slip roads that i missed.
I am up early for work and even at 6am or earlier I seem to be slowly drifting around behind people who do not seem to be heading anywhere in particular, and not particularly close to the speed limit of the road in question.
Then I remembered the movie The Bodysnatchers. And it is quite clear to me what is going on here. Look in the car you next overtake and note the distinct comatose disposition of the person you overtook.
I am up early for work and even at 6am or earlier I seem to be slowly drifting around behind people who do not seem to be heading anywhere in particular, and not particularly close to the speed limit of the road in question.
Then I remembered the movie The Bodysnatchers. And it is quite clear to me what is going on here. Look in the car you next overtake and note the distinct comatose disposition of the person you overtook.
robinessex said:
I happily poodle along in 2nd in 30mph limits. If I lift off the gas, I get significant amounts of engine braking. The F*****G brake lights don't come on. BRAKE LIGHTS, hands up anyone who doesn't understand those two words.
On (some) EVs there is measurement of deceleration... caused by regeneration settings... and if the Engine Braking is high enough it will trigger the brake lights. I have a feeling it has been written into future legislation. Not sure because i work in the truck industry and we had a 12ton prototype last year with the incorrect settings that was almost undrivable. Taking your foot off mid corner was apparently like trying to do a hand brake turn. fixed with a parameter change. Edited by robinessex on Friday 5th December 11:15
Clever stuff no ?
There is potential for almost one pedal driving and therefore the brakes themselves could be smaller lighter and cheaper on most EVs
SpeedBash said:
From that link..................It is obvious to most drivers that slower speeds are generally safer than fast ones.....................
No profanities in replies please !!!
Pit Pony said:
On (some) EVs there is measurement of deceleration... caused by regeneration settings... and if the Engine Braking is high enough it will trigger the brake lights. I have a feeling it has been written into future legislation. Not sure because i work in the truck industry and we had a 12ton prototype last year with the incorrect settings that was almost undrivable. Taking your foot off mid corner was apparently like trying to do a hand brake turn. fixed with a parameter change.
Clever stuff no ?
There is potential for almost one pedal driving and therefore the brakes themselves could be smaller lighter and cheaper on most EVs
A quote from https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp...Clever stuff no ?
There is potential for almost one pedal driving and therefore the brakes themselves could be smaller lighter and cheaper on most EVs
This may well have changed since but brake lights under regen deceleration is still a thing (for PHEV/EVs).
theplayingmantis said:
Caddyshack said:
xx99xx said:
Not often, maybe about once a year and it's more likely on a motorway. The last time it occurred I was in lane 1 (of 4) at 60mph and the flasher was just too lazy to overtake as his exit was coming up about half a mile away. Hence I just ignore it.
I mentioned tailgating - because whenever I see cars getting the impatient flash (usually from my relaxing vantage point of lane 1), the impatient car is more often than not tailgating or has been/is about to, as the flashing hasn't had the desired result.
The flash is not asking anyone to speed up. It is a wake up call that you are behind and they are in the outside lane when the inside is clear and they should have moved over.I mentioned tailgating - because whenever I see cars getting the impatient flash (usually from my relaxing vantage point of lane 1), the impatient car is more often than not tailgating or has been/is about to, as the flashing hasn't had the desired result.
I think many lane hoggers are just stupid but some drivers have dropped in to a subconscious type of hypnosis, their mind is elsewhere and just haven t realised they should move over. Sometimes, they wake up and get out of the way and they get a nice thank you
Telling that other posters are using the word impatient and other emotive words to describe those doing no wrong.
It's a typical sign of a road captain. Im not saying xx is as sitting in L1 and being flashed makes no sense. Unless perhaps someone was dangerously slow in which case a horn would be more appropriate, but others saying it yes probably followed by a nice moronic brake check simply for being reminded to drive properly.
There’s a big difference between a flash and then being able to make progress vs those that flash and then brake check the slower car for punishment for driving slow. How does it make any sense that you want to slow yourself down to punish them for not letting you drive faster.
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