RE: 2024 Porsche Taycan Turbo S | UK Review
Discussion
_ppan said:
We're about to purchase an EV for daily duties but my MX5 will stay for some time as my weekend car. I'm convinced EV's can be fun too and fun EVs will have their own merits. It's just that these cars haven't been designed yet (save for a few very expensive options). But in due time they will. I have no doubt that an EV MX5 will be huge fun, even if it might take a generation to sort it out. Hell, the existing mx5s are great fun while the engines haven't been much special, except perhaps the facelift ND engines. But mx5s have proven that fun doesn't only need to depend on the engine.
100%I'd be happy to have an EV sports car if someone makes one that I find enjoyable, it's just that so far nobody has (I haven't tried a Cyberster, but I hear it is more of a GT). For this type of car however I think EV makes perfect sense. The Taycan is a performance luxury saloon; what it needs to do is be very comfortable, very luxurious, but also very fast if the mood takes you, which plays directly into the strengths of current BEV technology.
Maxus said:
I was intrigued what Volvo this could be. The small SUV (EX40) I had in mind was pretty quick at sub 5 secs to 62. What is quite a surprise is the smallest one (EX30) with the twin motor is 3.6 secs to 62. This does have Y on it's side lighting. Considering no gears, 4 wheels powered, you just plant your foot and and hold on. No wonder it fs off out of a toll booth!
I probably wouldn't get one of them just yet!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q1_9HSyx78
I can understand why this appeals. A family daily driver that is faster than most supercars.
For someone like me, who likes a multi cylinder soundtrack, I think you mostly have to buy something older to enjoy raw driving thrills. New high performance ICE cars, with their fake noise and smooth auto boxes, are so refined and capable that they offer ever fewer distinguishable virtues for a driver over an EV. IMO. My G87 M2 offers little audible pleasure and what was the last supercar that required big gonads and some skill to drive fast.
For someone like me, who likes a multi cylinder soundtrack, I think you mostly have to buy something older to enjoy raw driving thrills. New high performance ICE cars, with their fake noise and smooth auto boxes, are so refined and capable that they offer ever fewer distinguishable virtues for a driver over an EV. IMO. My G87 M2 offers little audible pleasure and what was the last supercar that required big gonads and some skill to drive fast.
EV8 said:
Water Fairy said:
bqf said:
HardMiles said:
Crikey, you lot are easily upset - all of your tampons must be on fire! 
Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
What he said, almost word for word. If you're 'spending'/deducting from tax £160,000 for a Taycan, you really are a soulless NPC.Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
The pathetic ones that should be embarrassed are the nappy wearers who insist on relentlessly trying to ram down others throats how EVs are better and we should all try one, and that preferring ICE makes you a Neanderthal.
Why can't the EV brigade accept we all have a choice? Besides, the idea that EVs are 'clean' is the joke of the century and people conveniently 'forget' how dependent the world is on fossil fuels for so many other things that makes the effect of cars a drop in the ocean. No pun intended.
I've seen enough to tell me for "transport" - for moving from A to B, which is all the vast vast majority of driving is, EVs are better. For a sizeable percentage of people, for a sizeable percentage of the time. Like, 80%+. Said people may not see it that way because change bad, memes are truth, etc etc - but they will get there in time. It's inevitable . a few years ago belters were going on about 5G, and that went away because it was nonsense. 30 years ago the same middle aged "everything was better in the old days" cohort were furious about radition from mobile phones and so "were never getting one ever". Bulls
t always fades away if it's just that - not borne out of fact. But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others. And i don't think it's just because I too am middle aged, and thus have desires always hard wired to the things i desired growing up as a kid... it's more than that. The analogy being digital watches vs. mechanical watches - whether you're a Watch w
ker or not, it's beyond dispute really that digital watches are better at telling the time, have been for decades, but there is next to no market in collectable digital watches... I don't think humans have souls never mind cars, but cars can command an emotional bond - and for me it's all of those thousands of little parts working together to create an experience that I just cannot imagine an EV getting close to. My Polestar 2 LRDM is technically the fastest car have ever owned - but the prospect of choosing it for a Sunday drive vs. my A110, or NSX, or old school 560 SEC - not a chance in hell. And so what if it can melt your insides from the lights - without the crescendo of noise, and vibration, and tiny sense of jeopardy of "is everything going to hold together and not go bang or show a warning light", it's just some G force really. That's it.
This car exists to create headlines, but the volume sales will come from the better cars lower in the pecking order.... a few will be bought (not privately!) for those curious of what that speed feels like, but I cannot ever imagine a universe where they are truly desirable cars.
simundo777 said:
Anyone mentioned depreciation yet?
It is the fact that some folk can run these for about 10 pound a month through their work or business that gets me a bit envious in fairness. I wish I could get a car this fast for so little money to be honest, and why wouldn't you?
Plus as I've always said, if you're not paying much for something then your expectations are far lower for it, and that is why folk put up with Teslas and the like for example. This Taycan could be absolutely garbage to drive, but it wouldn't really matter, because they're so cheap to run. So you wouldn't really give a monkeys to be fair, or at least I wouldn't anyway.
cerb4.5lee said:
simundo777 said:
Anyone mentioned depreciation yet?
It is the fact that some folk can run these for about 10 pound a month through their work or business that gets me a bit envious in fairness. I wish I could get a car this fast for so little money to be honest, and why wouldn't you?
Plus as I've always said, if you're not paying much for something then your expectations are far lower for it, and that is why folk put up with Teslas and the like for example. This Taycan could be absolutely garbage to drive, but it wouldn't really matter, because they're so cheap to run. So you wouldn't really give a monkeys to be fair, or at least I wouldn't anyway.
That makes no sense though when the savings per week are small vs the depreciation which is catastrophic for EV. It's a bit like people who complain about VED at £500 when their car has lost £50k in depreciation. The people who say EV is no different from ICE need to take their blinkers off.
TX.
Terminator X said:
cerb4.5lee said:
simundo777 said:
Anyone mentioned depreciation yet?
It is the fact that some folk can run these for about 10 pound a month through their work or business that gets me a bit envious in fairness. I wish I could get a car this fast for so little money to be honest, and why wouldn't you?
Plus as I've always said, if you're not paying much for something then your expectations are far lower for it, and that is why folk put up with Teslas and the like for example. This Taycan could be absolutely garbage to drive, but it wouldn't really matter, because they're so cheap to run. So you wouldn't really give a monkeys to be fair, or at least I wouldn't anyway.
That makes no sense though when the savings per week are small vs the depreciation which is catastrophic for EV. It's a bit like people who complain about VED at £500 when their car has lost £50k in depreciation. The people who say EV is no different from ICE need to take their blinkers off.
TX.
If you're getting a company car, as long as the monthly cost makes sense - you don't care about depreciation.
FWIW i proved with my own nerdy spreadsheeting that my ~55k worth of EV on a company car scheme is about 150 quid a month less to run than the 7 year old used diesel estate it replaced. No room for subjectivity - just 100% indisputable fact. I can list everything here, but it's nothing to do with a Porsche Taycan, plus doubt anyone cares!
EVs *are* very cheap to own, but only if you take the tax break and insulate yourself from depreciation... otherwise it's a bit more sketchy.
Brilliant cars, but we could not give them away for the last 6-12 months. I am not sure the new one is sufficiently different to warranty the increase cost over a nice CPO car.
As for weight, if you are driving hard enough for that to be a real consideration then you're probably close to making the national news for fast and reckless driving and that's coming from someone who has a heavy right foot....
The lateral G and stability one of these can pull around a corner is remarkable. The width and low CoG really helps in that respect.
As for weight, if you are driving hard enough for that to be a real consideration then you're probably close to making the national news for fast and reckless driving and that's coming from someone who has a heavy right foot....
The lateral G and stability one of these can pull around a corner is remarkable. The width and low CoG really helps in that respect.
mrclav said:
Baldchap said:
Why do EV threads always get so ridiculous?
Because many on here cannot accept that the days of ICE are, whether they like it or not, numbered.In my mind, the highest end ICE cars will essentially go the way of the horse - owned and operated by only the rich. Everyone else will be traveling from A to B in some kind of BEV.
It's quite sad really.
cidered77 said:
sigh - nooo, he clearly said "through their work or business".
If you're getting a company car, as long as the monthly cost makes sense - you don't care about depreciation.
FWIW i proved with my own nerdy spreadsheeting that my ~55k worth of EV on a company car scheme is about 150 quid a month less to run than the 7 year old used diesel estate it replaced. No room for subjectivity - just 100% indisputable fact. I can list everything here, but it's nothing to do with a Porsche Taycan, plus doubt anyone cares!
EVs *are* very cheap to own, but only if you take the tax break and insulate yourself from depreciation... otherwise it's a bit more sketchy.
All cars depreciate. I'll repost a guide:If you're getting a company car, as long as the monthly cost makes sense - you don't care about depreciation.
FWIW i proved with my own nerdy spreadsheeting that my ~55k worth of EV on a company car scheme is about 150 quid a month less to run than the 7 year old used diesel estate it replaced. No room for subjectivity - just 100% indisputable fact. I can list everything here, but it's nothing to do with a Porsche Taycan, plus doubt anyone cares!
EVs *are* very cheap to own, but only if you take the tax break and insulate yourself from depreciation... otherwise it's a bit more sketchy.
The average car depreciation will hit hardest in the first year of ownership. Generally, the drop will be around 15-35% in the first 12 months. And that will continue to rise up to 50% or more over three years.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
The cheapest Taycan I can find is a high mileage 68,000 mile 4year old version at £38K. This was about £80K new including grant but excluding options. By my reckoning that sits within the norms above.
Just like ICE cars when a new model gets released the used version see a drop in value. This is not a new phenomenon.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-po...
MrGeoff said:
Still can't shake the depreciation on these BEVs. As someone else rightly pointed out, the average private consumer cannot stomach that and the only consumer that will is a business individual.
Also, the wheels on this car are hideous, what were they thinking? I'm assuming the white lip has some aero properties but still, they look terrible...
And with over 600 Taycans for sale on A/T currently this won't be any different. Also, the wheels on this car are hideous, what were they thinking? I'm assuming the white lip has some aero properties but still, they look terrible...
Watch out below !
Terminator X said:
cerb4.5lee said:
simundo777 said:
Anyone mentioned depreciation yet?
It is the fact that some folk can run these for about 10 pound a month through their work or business that gets me a bit envious in fairness. I wish I could get a car this fast for so little money to be honest, and why wouldn't you?
Plus as I've always said, if you're not paying much for something then your expectations are far lower for it, and that is why folk put up with Teslas and the like for example. This Taycan could be absolutely garbage to drive, but it wouldn't really matter, because they're so cheap to run. So you wouldn't really give a monkeys to be fair, or at least I wouldn't anyway.
That makes no sense though when the savings per week are small vs the depreciation which is catastrophic for EV. It's a bit like people who complain about VED at £500 when their car has lost £50k in depreciation. The people who say EV is no different from ICE need to take their blinkers off.
TX.
Bik is (currently ) the massive benefit for ev as company cars . If you assume that a similar cost ice car would be taxed at 37% v 2% for the EV , then for a Taycan level car you save c£60k in nett income over 3 years
Nomme de Plum said:
All cars depreciate. I'll repost a guide:
The average car depreciation will hit hardest in the first year of ownership. Generally, the drop will be around 15-35% in the first 12 months. And that will continue to rise up to 50% or more over three years.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
The cheapest Taycan I can find is a high mileage 68,000 mile 4year old version at £38K. This was about £80K new including grant but excluding options. By my reckoning that sits within the norms above.
Just like ICE cars when a new model gets released the used version see a drop in value. This is not a new phenomenon.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-po...
The last time I looked about a month ago I'd have lost almost exactly the same as I would have lost on an M5 which I also considered at the time. I think the shock with Taycans in particular was that for the first 2 years-ish, build times were so long they were at a premium. Then, predictably, when leases started coming to an end we got 3 years of depreciation in a year-18 months. Only the delusional expected anything different. I'm actualy pleasantly surprised it's within the normal range, given the way tech usually ages. It's funny that on PH the people flapping about depreciation more than anyone are the people who claim they would never buy an EV anyway; they always have a friend who has lost x and will never buy another Porsche. Or something. The average car depreciation will hit hardest in the first year of ownership. Generally, the drop will be around 15-35% in the first 12 months. And that will continue to rise up to 50% or more over three years.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
The cheapest Taycan I can find is a high mileage 68,000 mile 4year old version at £38K. This was about £80K new including grant but excluding options. By my reckoning that sits within the norms above.
Just like ICE cars when a new model gets released the used version see a drop in value. This is not a new phenomenon.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-po...
cidered77 said:
...
But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...
I think that's fair to a point. IMO the Taycan is a brilliant car, I'll almost certainly replace mine with another but that's the thing I will replace it, whereas I've got ICE cars that are objectively worse in almost every way that I'll never sell. That said, it's unfair to liken a mass produced, fast family car, irrespective of drivetrain, to the very best ICE cars. How many people buy a big new M/RS/AMG and keep that forever? I don't think the lack of "emotional reaction or desire" is unique to EV's, I have the same reaction to most modern cars. Personally I think ICE cars generally peaked in the 90's with a few notable exceptions. Hopefully, EV's have yet to reach peak enjoyment.But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...
911Spanker said:
EV8 said:
Water Fairy said:
bqf said:
HardMiles said:
Crikey, you lot are easily upset - all of your tampons must be on fire!
Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
What he said, almost word for word. If you're 'spending'/deducting from tax £160,000 for a Taycan, you really are a soulless NPC.Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
The pathetic ones that should be embarrassed are the nappy wearers who insist on relentlessly trying to ram down others throats how EVs are better and we should all try one, and that preferring ICE makes you a Neanderthal.
Why can't the EV brigade accept we all have a choice? Besides, the idea that EVs are 'clean' is the joke of the century and people conveniently 'forget' how dependent the world is on fossil fuels for so many other things that makes the effect of cars a drop in the ocean. No pun intended.
pheonix478 said:
Nomme de Plum said:
All cars depreciate. I'll repost a guide:
The average car depreciation will hit hardest in the first year of ownership. Generally, the drop will be around 15-35% in the first 12 months. And that will continue to rise up to 50% or more over three years.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
The cheapest Taycan I can find is a high mileage 68,000 mile 4year old version at £38K. This was about £80K new including grant but excluding options. By my reckoning that sits within the norms above.
Just like ICE cars when a new model gets released the used version see a drop in value. This is not a new phenomenon.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-po...
The last time I looked about a month ago I'd have lost almost exactly the same as I would have lost on an M5 which I also considered at the time. I think the shock with Taycans in particular was that for the first 2 years-ish, build times were so long they were at a premium. Then, predictably, when leases started coming to an end we got 3 years of depreciation in a year-18 months. Only the delusional expected anything different. I'm actualy pleasantly surprised it's within the normal range, given the way tech usually ages. It's funny that on PH the people flapping about depreciation more than anyone are the people who claim they would never buy an EV anyway; they always have a friend who has lost x and will never buy another Porsche. Or something. The average car depreciation will hit hardest in the first year of ownership. Generally, the drop will be around 15-35% in the first 12 months. And that will continue to rise up to 50% or more over three years.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
The cheapest Taycan I can find is a high mileage 68,000 mile 4year old version at £38K. This was about £80K new including grant but excluding options. By my reckoning that sits within the norms above.
Just like ICE cars when a new model gets released the used version see a drop in value. This is not a new phenomenon.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-po...
I know we like to pretend on PH we are all rich but anyone driving a lower range Porsche Taycan certainly isn’t in the position to write off the difference between a realistic £90k optioned Taycan being 40-60% depreciation.
That’s £36k vs £54k (£18k difference). The depreciation could be worse when you consider what the trade in was.
On a Porsche not a French 0.8L hatchback!
EV or not that is pants.
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