RE: 2024 Porsche Taycan Turbo S | UK Review

[Nomme de Plum]

ds666 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

pheonix478 said:

cidered77 said:

...
But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...

I think that's fair to a point. IMO the Taycan is a brilliant car, I'll almost certainly replace mine with another but that's the thing I will replace it, whereas I've got ICE cars that are objectively worse in almost every way that I'll never sell. That said, it's unfair to liken a mass produced, fast family car, irrespective of drivetrain, to the very best ICE cars. How many people buy a big new M/RS/AMG and keep that forever? I don't think the lack of "emotional reaction or desire" is unique to EV's, I have the same reaction to most modern cars. Personally I think ICE cars generally peaked in the 90's with a few notable exceptions. Hopefully, EV's have yet to reach peak enjoyment.

I'm generally quite an emotional person, so I do get attached to my ICE cars. However I don't feel that same connection to electric yet though, but I haven't driven a decent electric car yet, so my mind could change on that perhaps?

I was out in the Caterham earlier and I absolutely loved it. The noise, the gearchanges, the lightness etc, but I also love the F82 M4 in comparison as well. Yet it could be argued that I'd find the M4 boring after the Caterham really. I'm going out in the 370Z Roadster later too, seeing as the weather is nice at last!

Would I get the same pleasure from a performance electric car in comparison to those 3 ICE cars...who knows?

Have you driven a Taycan yet ? You'd be really surprised how good they are on the road ( and track - I was amazed at how they handled at the Silverstone Experience ) . I really do have to make a concerted effort to use anything else these days - but I still do and enjoy the ICE noise and manual gearboxes . I have a large garage full of v12's , 4 and 6 cylinder manual stuff from 1933 through to 2012 and have run 8 off M BMW's as daily drivers and don't think I'll go back to ICE as a daily . Hopefully won't have to downsize the ICE cars in the garage either .
But when Caterham get their EV car to market I'm hoping that will be very good.

If only more car enthusiasts could be open minded like you. The more EVs do the daily stuff the less likely the government will legislate to restrict ICE ownership.

[Rumdoodle]

cerb4.5lee said:

cidered77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

pheonix478 said:

cidered77 said:

...
But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...

I think that's fair to a point. IMO the Taycan is a brilliant car, I'll almost certainly replace mine with another but that's the thing I will replace it, whereas I've got ICE cars that are objectively worse in almost every way that I'll never sell. That said, it's unfair to liken a mass produced, fast family car, irrespective of drivetrain, to the very best ICE cars. How many people buy a big new M/RS/AMG and keep that forever? I don't think the lack of "emotional reaction or desire" is unique to EV's, I have the same reaction to most modern cars. Personally I think ICE cars generally peaked in the 90's with a few notable exceptions. Hopefully, EV's have yet to reach peak enjoyment.

I'm generally quite an emotional person, so I do get attached to my ICE cars. However I don't feel that same connection to electric yet though, but I haven't driven a decent electric car yet, so my mind could change on that perhaps?

I was out in the Caterham earlier and I absolutely loved it. The noise, the gearchanges, the lightness etc, but I also love the F82 M4 in comparison as well. Yet it could be argued that I'd find the M4 boring after the Caterham really. I'm going out in the 370Z Roadster later too, seeing as the weather is nice at last!

Would I get the same pleasure from a performance electric car in comparison to those 3 ICE cars...who knows?

Time will tell - and i take the chap above's point on the Taycan being a very good car. But EVs in the long term sustaining themselves as genuine objects of desire from a driving experience perspective? i still think it's tenuous...

So much "character" is defined by powertrain, surely. And with an EV - no gears, noise if it exists at all, is all fake (ok, as it is on modern ICE cars, but to a much greater extent).... you're left with "how fast does it go in a straight line", and "how is the throttle and brake pedal mapping". There's room for differentiation in terms of how a car might handle - but, whether than creates anything that might be *properly desired*.... can't see it. and i mean real desire here, not just "this is a decent option for me as a daily on BIK". The kind of desirability that sees this worth more than it's price today in 30 year's time...

And for performance - it *did* used to matter, but i don't think it does so much now. So so much desirability in the past was defined by the stats, and performance - remember the shock of the first 400bhp super saloon (E39), or the reaction in the Daily Main to the Lotus Carlton? I still remember now being giddy as a kid seeing 201.3mph in Car magazine against the F40....but when horrible Volvo EX30 SUV at the cheaper end of the EV spectrum can accelerate quicker than that F40, then really - who cares ?

But we may just be old, and we're just programmed whether we're conscious of it or not to lust after the stuff that was cool when we were kids....

I think your last 2 paragraphs are spot on.

I remember all that too. I often get shot down for saying it, but I do genuinely believe that your age plays a massive part in how you feel about the whole ICE versus electric debacle I reckon.

If age didn't play a part in my case, then I'd be pulling up trees to buy an electric car for example I think. Electric cars are seen as cool nowadays for example, whereas when I was a kid, we'd have laughed our socks off at the idea of an electric car in comparison.

We all took the piss out of milk floats and the Sinclair C5 for example too back then!

The drag racing and banger racing of old has been supplanted by social media inspired late night events at industrial estates and such like, where they destroy tyres, engines and occasionally each other in storms of smoke and noise. I suspect the average age there is a bit less than the average age on PH.

And the proliferation of petrol powered hypercars revving themselves into flames in central London is not surprising given the diminishing opportunity to drive quickly on public roads. Again, this is a completely new generation, whose need to exhibit themselves is largely reliant on making a racket.

Being a car enthusiast has always been a niche and often anti-social activity that appeals directly to the human appetite for sound and fire and destruction. Considering how peaceful and tolerant the world is these days, I can't see that changing any time soon.

[pheonix478]

Nomme de Plum said:

ds666 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

pheonix478 said:

cidered77 said:

...
But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...

I think that's fair to a point. IMO the Taycan is a brilliant car, I'll almost certainly replace mine with another but that's the thing I will replace it, whereas I've got ICE cars that are objectively worse in almost every way that I'll never sell. That said, it's unfair to liken a mass produced, fast family car, irrespective of drivetrain, to the very best ICE cars. How many people buy a big new M/RS/AMG and keep that forever? I don't think the lack of "emotional reaction or desire" is unique to EV's, I have the same reaction to most modern cars. Personally I think ICE cars generally peaked in the 90's with a few notable exceptions. Hopefully, EV's have yet to reach peak enjoyment.

I'm generally quite an emotional person, so I do get attached to my ICE cars. However I don't feel that same connection to electric yet though, but I haven't driven a decent electric car yet, so my mind could change on that perhaps?

I was out in the Caterham earlier and I absolutely loved it. The noise, the gearchanges, the lightness etc, but I also love the F82 M4 in comparison as well. Yet it could be argued that I'd find the M4 boring after the Caterham really. I'm going out in the 370Z Roadster later too, seeing as the weather is nice at last!

Would I get the same pleasure from a performance electric car in comparison to those 3 ICE cars...who knows?

Have you driven a Taycan yet ? You'd be really surprised how good they are on the road ( and track - I was amazed at how they handled at the Silverstone Experience ) . I really do have to make a concerted effort to use anything else these days - but I still do and enjoy the ICE noise and manual gearboxes . I have a large garage full of v12's , 4 and 6 cylinder manual stuff from 1933 through to 2012 and have run 8 off M BMW's as daily drivers and don't think I'll go back to ICE as a daily . Hopefully won't have to downsize the ICE cars in the garage either .
But when Caterham get their EV car to market I'm hoping that will be very good.

If only more car enthusiasts could be open minded like you. The more EVs do the daily stuff the less likely the government will legislate to restrict ICE ownership.

This is very much my hope. 99% of ICE cars on the road are complete dross. If 90% of them are replaced with EV's who cares? Hopefully that will be enough for governments to focus their attention on something else. Certainly the more we resist the carrot the more they will use the stick.

[British Beef]

ChocolateFrog said:

4.4 miles per kWh (if accurate) is akin to a 1000hp ICE car averaging 70mpg.

In other words very impressive.

I would call huge BS on that figure, unless achieved at a constant and slow speed. Real world, you will not make much more than 3.0 unless very steady driving with one of these.

[Familymad]

We wouldn’t go back to ICE daily also. Would love a Taycan but the prices to lease are too high based on depreciation etc.

[J4CKO]

Rich Boy Spanner said:

Water Fairy said:

bqf said:

HardMiles said:

Crikey, you lot are easily upset - all of your tampons must be on fire!

Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...

I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.

And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.

So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.

What he said, almost word for word. If you're 'spending'/deducting from tax £160,000 for a Taycan, you really are a soulless NPC.

+1

The pathetic ones that should be embarrassed are the nappy wearers who insist on relentlessly trying to ram down others throats how EVs are better and we should all try one, and that preferring ICE makes you a Neanderthal.

Why can't the EV brigade accept we all have a choice? Besides, the idea that EVs are 'clean' is the joke of the century and people conveniently 'forget' how dependent the world is on fossil fuels for so many other things that makes the effect of cars a drop in the ocean. No pun intended.

The 'EV Brigade'. Jesus wept. This site has become the Daily Mail.

Yeah, they just love their "Brigades", Cyclists apparently enrol in the "Lycra Brigade", its usually a good indicator that the person may be a bit of a knob using Brigade outside a military context.

See also Snowflake, Woke etc

[911Spanker]

pheonix478 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

ds666 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

pheonix478 said:

cidered77 said:

...
But I think i've seen enough and driven enough to tell me EV driving for pleasure just won't command the same emotional reaction or desire as with ICE cars. For me it won't and suspect for many others...

I think that's fair to a point. IMO the Taycan is a brilliant car, I'll almost certainly replace mine with another but that's the thing I will replace it, whereas I've got ICE cars that are objectively worse in almost every way that I'll never sell. That said, it's unfair to liken a mass produced, fast family car, irrespective of drivetrain, to the very best ICE cars. How many people buy a big new M/RS/AMG and keep that forever? I don't think the lack of "emotional reaction or desire" is unique to EV's, I have the same reaction to most modern cars. Personally I think ICE cars generally peaked in the 90's with a few notable exceptions. Hopefully, EV's have yet to reach peak enjoyment.

I'm generally quite an emotional person, so I do get attached to my ICE cars. However I don't feel that same connection to electric yet though, but I haven't driven a decent electric car yet, so my mind could change on that perhaps?

I was out in the Caterham earlier and I absolutely loved it. The noise, the gearchanges, the lightness etc, but I also love the F82 M4 in comparison as well. Yet it could be argued that I'd find the M4 boring after the Caterham really. I'm going out in the 370Z Roadster later too, seeing as the weather is nice at last!

Would I get the same pleasure from a performance electric car in comparison to those 3 ICE cars...who knows?

Have you driven a Taycan yet ? You'd be really surprised how good they are on the road ( and track - I was amazed at how they handled at the Silverstone Experience ) . I really do have to make a concerted effort to use anything else these days - but I still do and enjoy the ICE noise and manual gearboxes . I have a large garage full of v12's , 4 and 6 cylinder manual stuff from 1933 through to 2012 and have run 8 off M BMW's as daily drivers and don't think I'll go back to ICE as a daily . Hopefully won't have to downsize the ICE cars in the garage either .
But when Caterham get their EV car to market I'm hoping that will be very good.

If only more car enthusiasts could be open minded like you. The more EVs do the daily stuff the less likely the government will legislate to restrict ICE ownership.

This is very much my hope. 99% of ICE cars on the road are complete dross. If 90% of them are replaced with EV's who cares? Hopefully that will be enough for governments to focus their attention on something else. Certainly the more we resist the carrot the more they will use the stick.

Governments focus on other things..?! I love your optimism..

[Nomme de Plum]

British Beef said:

ChocolateFrog said:

4.4 miles per kWh (if accurate) is akin to a 1000hp ICE car averaging 70mpg.

In other words very impressive.

I would call huge BS on that figure, unless achieved at a constant and slow speed. Real world, you will not make much more than 3.0 unless very steady driving with one of these.

Why speculate when you have no actual data or experience? At least us Taycan drivers have some hands on experience.

[Scoobysaurus]

Dapster said:

Why on earth would you spec a press car in white? It does it no favours at all.

Regardless, the E Tron looks a million times better

That Audi is one of very few EVs I see that spark any interest in terms of the pure aesthetics. The Taycan is an ugly looking thing, but each to their own I guess.

[murphyaj]

Scoobysaurus said:

That Audi is one of very few EVs I see that spark any interest in terms of the pure aesthetics. The Taycan is an ugly looking thing, but each to their own I guess.

Selling fk-ugly cars very successfully for large amounts of money is something Porsche specialise in though. The original Cayenne was roundly mocked for being absolutely hideous when it was first released, as was the Panamera. They have just sold in such high numbers people have become used to them.

[Nomme de Plum]

Scoobysaurus said:

Dapster said:

Why on earth would you spec a press car in white? It does it no favours at all.

Regardless, the E Tron looks a million times better

That Audi is one of very few EVs I see that spark any interest in terms of the pure aesthetics. The Taycan is an ugly looking thing, but each to their own I guess.

I quite like the look of Audi but I found the Taycan Turismo gives modest additional practicability. I happen to like the look of the Taycan and it drives extremely well.

[Dunbar871]

EVs can be explosive… watch those hybrids as well…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13644987/...

[ds666]

Dunbar871 said:

EVs can be explosive… watch those hybrids as well…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13644987/...

FFS

[ds666]

Nomme de Plum said:

British Beef said:

ChocolateFrog said:

4.4 miles per kWh (if accurate) is akin to a 1000hp ICE car averaging 70mpg.

In other words very impressive.

I would call huge BS on that figure, unless achieved at a constant and slow speed. Real world, you will not make much more than 3.0 unless very steady driving with one of these.

Why speculate when you have no actual data or experience? At least us Taycan drivers have some hands on experience.

Just checked mine - 31000miles , 3.2 miles/kWh , CT Turbo , driven like it is stolen.

[Nomme de Plum]

ds666 said:

Dunbar871 said:

EVs can be explosive… watch those hybrids as well…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13644987/...

FFS

It was a Hybrid not an BEV and fuel tank caught fire. My BEVs do not have fuel tanks and have not caught fire. Evidentially BEVs suffer less fires than ICEs but good old Daily Mail appealing to the prejudiced and uninformed.

[911Spanker]

ds666 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

British Beef said:

ChocolateFrog said:

4.4 miles per kWh (if accurate) is akin to a 1000hp ICE car averaging 70mpg.

In other words very impressive.

I would call huge BS on that figure, unless achieved at a constant and slow speed. Real world, you will not make much more than 3.0 unless very steady driving with one of these.

Why speculate when you have no actual data or experience? At least us Taycan drivers have some hands on experience.

Just checked mine - 31000miles , 3.2 miles/kWh , CT Turbo , driven like it is stolen.

A Turbo "driven like it is stolen"? On the public road in the UK?

Not sure I believe that or you would be a very poor thief...

Edited by 911Spanker on Thursday 18th July 11:45

[Nomme de Plum]

ds666 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

British Beef said:

ChocolateFrog said:

4.4 miles per kWh (if accurate) is akin to a 1000hp ICE car averaging 70mpg.

In other words very impressive.

I would call huge BS on that figure, unless achieved at a constant and slow speed. Real world, you will not make much more than 3.0 unless very steady driving with one of these.

Why speculate when you have no actual data or experience? At least us Taycan drivers have some hands on experience.

Just checked mine - 31000miles , 3.2 miles/kWh , CT Turbo , driven like it is stolen.

I was pretty sure my 4S was not dissimilar and thats the old model not the new one.

I do find the completely random one liners amusing though.

[murphyaj]

I haven't had time to go through all 12 pages of the thread. Anybody care to check and see if we have bingo yet?

This is more than a little tongue-in-cheek of course. Many of these are actual legitimate criticisms, others are bullst, but they are the same arguments that go round and round and round and round and round, which is quite amusing to watch.

[911Spanker]

murphyaj said:

I haven't had time to go through all 12 pages of the thread. Anybody care to check and see if we have bingo yet?

This is more than a little tongue-in-cheek of course. Many of these are actual legitimate criticisms, others are bullst, but they are the same arguments that go round and round and round and round and round, which is quite amusing to watch.

The whole thread is full of BS from plenty of posters...

[Terminator X]

Oh mummy these nasty people don't agree with me

Get used to alternative opinions and grow a pair.

TX.