RE: Jaguar unveils 'fearless' Type 00 in Miami
Discussion
British Beef said:
I hate the direction jaGuar are going in, furthermore I predict that by 2027 jaguar will be bankrupt and I suspect the brand will be bought by a Chinese car manufacturer. Ironically they seem to place greater value on brand values and historic achievements.
Actually, JLR is doing very well financially - with their highest profits since 2015 at some £2bn for year 2023/2024.It's this financial stability that allows Jaguar to take this risk and switch to EV. There'll have to be something catastrophic other than design direction to force them into bankruptcy by 2027.
I quite like it... Not so keen on some of the interior ideas but I like the exterior.
As for Concept vs Reality, it'll be interesting to see what turns up as in the past JLR have previously brought us production cars which were very close to the concept. eg: LRX Concept and the Evoque, then prior to that you could see a lot of the Range Stormer in the Range Rover Sport.
The worst part of the waiting is going to be the endless speculation and noise from the naysayers. I guess time will tell.
M
As for Concept vs Reality, it'll be interesting to see what turns up as in the past JLR have previously brought us production cars which were very close to the concept. eg: LRX Concept and the Evoque, then prior to that you could see a lot of the Range Stormer in the Range Rover Sport.
The worst part of the waiting is going to be the endless speculation and noise from the naysayers. I guess time will tell.
M
Crudeoink said:
What are they trying to achieve with this 'concept car'? As far as we know they have a prototype on the road doing testing? The real car will have mirrors, indicators, holes for cooling, brake lights, hopefully a dashboard with an instrument cluster? The concept looks clean and sleek because its missing all the stuff you have to have on a car. Surely we're all going to be disappointed when the real thing comes out with all the regulatory stuff on board and ruins the look of the thing?
McGovern is good at that type of stuff - look how clean the current RR is.A piss poor 8 minute reveal on instagram isn't the way I'd unveil something as significant as this.
It's a concept so the front and rear will change but I'm still not seeing the "take my money" comments.
Bold move to chase the Rolls Royce Spectre market especially with that stupid jaGUar logo.
I imagine Bentley execs are enjoying their breakfast this morning.
It's a concept so the front and rear will change but I'm still not seeing the "take my money" comments.
Bold move to chase the Rolls Royce Spectre market especially with that stupid jaGUar logo.
I imagine Bentley execs are enjoying their breakfast this morning.
Tindersticks said:
People moan that too many modern cars look the same. Jaguar try something different. People still moan.
This isn't in any way different though. The 'face' is a mash-up of Rolls Royce and Audi and the stretched coupe has been done many times before, most recently by Rolls and Cadillac.If you mean jaGuar are trying to do something different for Jaguar, then yes, but that is just their marketing wonks talking to themselves, because the product isn't actually that revolutionary in the bigger picture.
I realise now that I (like many) completely misinterpreted the marketing slogans in the controversial video. "Break the mould", "copy nothing" wasn't a message about the product because the concept reveal shows it is very much derivative. It was a message to potential customers in the market sector they are trying to elevate the brand to to choose jaGuar rather than the established marques by appealing to the 'modern audience' demographic who might be in the market for such a car.
Two questions though (one which has been posed before) - do such customers exist and in the necessary numbers, and would they choose a brand previously pitched at a lower sector that is making ostentatious moves to dispel itself of a previous image (and ultimately is seeking validation) over brands that already say 'success'?
In the last episode of the Chris Harris podcast the team there stated that Jaguar should be the UK's Porsche, but instead JLR are trying to turn it into their version of Rolls and Bentley. IMO a mistake for the same reason JLR have been getting Jaguar wrong for a decade now - they already have a brand that competes with Rolls and Bentley in the form of Range Rover. JLR needed to stop selling Jaguar cars that were rivals to their own Land Rover and Range Rover products. It should have become the sporting division (and MG are showing the world how to do a 'British' EV sports car - that should have been Jaguar) but instead the double-zero it is just going to compete at the same price point as JLR's existing flagship and probably steal sales from it rather than rivals.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 3rd December 09:53
horseshoecrab said:
A piss poor 8 minute reveal on instagram isn't the way I'd unveil something as significant as this.
I'm guessing you're not the target market. I think Jaguar have realised that they need to appeal to young people to survive. I was watching a random Jay Leno YouTube video the other day and he was talking to a Rolls Royce representative who said that RR have the youngest buyer demographic of any BMW brand... the average Rolls Royce buyer is younger than the average MINI buyer, which is remarkable when you think about it, but it does imply that if Jaguar really are trying to push back into the luxury car market, they probably need to shift their focus to under-50s.
barrya56 said:
My Year 7 students (11 year olds) produce CAD designs that look like this when they start designing. It has no educated artistic or functional merit. The logos look like they're laser cut from MDF. It doesn't challenge like good art, it's banal.
Cars are not art, they are functional machines that become art as a result of performing their functions exceptionally well, and having aesthetically pleasing lines as a result.
I was considering a Jag estate as a new car. Not any more. I'm clearly not part of their target market.
I kind of feel the same as you. I think I'm coming round to the look of the concept but it's not fresh thinking and far far too big and heavy. Why such a long bonnet? It's not clever. I only vaguely like it cos it reminds me of the Batmobile from the Animated Series!Cars are not art, they are functional machines that become art as a result of performing their functions exceptionally well, and having aesthetically pleasing lines as a result.
I was considering a Jag estate as a new car. Not any more. I'm clearly not part of their target market.
However, to allow the concept to decide whether you should buy a used car from the same brand, is behaviour matching your year 7 students. Get a grip man!
Evercross said:
This isn't in any way different though. The 'face' is a mash-up of Rolls Royce and Audi and the stretched coupe has been done many times before, most recently by Rolls and Cadillac.
If you mean jaGuar are trying to do something different for Jaguar, then yes, but that is just their marketing wonks talking to themselves, because the product isn't actually that revolutionary in the bigger picture.
I realise now that I (like many) completely misinterpreted the marketing slogans in the controversial video. "Break the mould", "copy nothing" wasn't a message about the product because the concept reveal shows it is very much derivative. It was a message to potential customers in the market sector they are trying to elevate the brand to to choose jaGuar rather than the established marques by appealing to the 'modern audience' demographic who might be in the market for such a car.
Two questions though (one which has been posed before) - do such customers exist and in the necessary numbers, and would they choose a brand previously pitched at a lower sector that is making ostentatious moves to dispel itself of a previous image (and ultimately is seeking validation) over brands that already say 'success'?
In the last episode of the Chris Harris podcast the team there stated that Jaguar should be the UK's Porsche, but instead JLR are trying to turn it into their version of Rolls and Bentley. IMO a mistake for the same reason JLR have been getting Jaguar wrong for a decade now - they already have a brand that competes with Rolls and Bentley in the form of Range Rover. JLR needed to stop selling Jaguar cars that were rivals to their own Land Rover and Range Rover products. It should have become the sporting division (and MG are showing the world how to do a 'British' EV sports car - that should have been Jaguar) but instead the double-zero it is just going to compete at the same price point as JLR's existing flagship and probably steal sales from it rather than rivals.
The customers exist - the £120k+ market is pretty big and, in reality, isn’t too far from Jaguars historic market positioning. All of the large saloons, from SS to XJ, were essentially cut price Bentleys and wouldn’t be far away from this segment today.If you mean jaGuar are trying to do something different for Jaguar, then yes, but that is just their marketing wonks talking to themselves, because the product isn't actually that revolutionary in the bigger picture.
I realise now that I (like many) completely misinterpreted the marketing slogans in the controversial video. "Break the mould", "copy nothing" wasn't a message about the product because the concept reveal shows it is very much derivative. It was a message to potential customers in the market sector they are trying to elevate the brand to to choose jaGuar rather than the established marques by appealing to the 'modern audience' demographic who might be in the market for such a car.
Two questions though (one which has been posed before) - do such customers exist and in the necessary numbers, and would they choose a brand previously pitched at a lower sector that is making ostentatious moves to dispel itself of a previous image (and ultimately is seeking validation) over brands that already say 'success'?
In the last episode of the Chris Harris podcast the team there stated that Jaguar should be the UK's Porsche, but instead JLR are trying to turn it into their version of Rolls and Bentley. IMO a mistake for the same reason JLR have been getting Jaguar wrong for a decade now - they already have a brand that competes with Rolls and Bentley in the form of Range Rover. JLR needed to stop selling Jaguar cars that were rivals to their own Land Rover and Range Rover products. It should have become the sporting division (and MG are showing the world how to do a 'British' EV sports car - that should have been Jaguar) but instead the double-zero it is just going to compete at the same price point as JLR's existing flagship and probably steal sales from it rather than rivals.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 3rd December 09:53
Porsche sell sport cars, saloon cars, EV’s, and SUV’s that compete with each other at that price point, so there should be no concern about Range Rover. The latter is limited by the 4x4 thing anyway, so there’s room for the luxury boulevardier…
Edited by ettore on Tuesday 3rd December 10:15
Hands up, we've been trolled by JLR.
There is no way the production version will look anything like that. An amateurish render of an improbable shape, a driving position more suited to a gibbon than a homo sapiens, a rear "window" that you can't see out of, the traditional radiator grille replaced with what appears to be a domestic radiator, though to be fair, I do like the barrier twixt driver's plank and that for the passenger to prevent any chance of sexual congress and therefore reduce the chance of people stupid enough to have bought one of these ever reproducing.
A triumph.
There is no way the production version will look anything like that. An amateurish render of an improbable shape, a driving position more suited to a gibbon than a homo sapiens, a rear "window" that you can't see out of, the traditional radiator grille replaced with what appears to be a domestic radiator, though to be fair, I do like the barrier twixt driver's plank and that for the passenger to prevent any chance of sexual congress and therefore reduce the chance of people stupid enough to have bought one of these ever reproducing.
A triumph.
theicemario said:
A reminder that Jaguar used to offer an eclectic palette of paint colours, of which pink / Heather was one at a point in time. A far cry from the triple black dross ubiquitous in late XE, XF and the -Pace thingies.
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