RE: Jaguar unveils 'fearless' Type 00 in Miami
Discussion
schedoni said:
Great designers lead, they don’t follow. Would the Miura ever existed if people just assumed that the front engined Daytona was the end of sports car design?
I still think this is lazy, backward looking and amateurish.
If this is the best they can do then one can only hope the end for jaGuar is quick and as painless as possible.
But what do you actually do instead? People keep saying that EVs give us the freedom to make cars look different, but how? As I said in my previous post, if you move the cabin right to the front, it will make it look like a people carrier or a tractor unit. If you put it in the middle, the car will look like a saloon or coupe. Put it at the back and it will look (as in the case of the Type 00) like an old fashioned, front-engine GT or sports car. I still think this is lazy, backward looking and amateurish.
If this is the best they can do then one can only hope the end for jaGuar is quick and as painless as possible.
Edited by schedoni on Tuesday 3rd December 08:39
After more than a century of development, we've largely reached the balancing point of optimising interior space, mechanical packaging and aerodynamics. While batteries and motors do give you a bit more flexibility, ultimately a car still has to transport between two and seven people and an acceptable amount of luggage. Given all of those requirements, the size and shape of the cabin (and therefore the glasshouse) is pretty well set, so you're only really left with getting rid of the bonnet, which brings me back to the people carrier comparison earlier.
Jammez said:
Erm, last time I looked BMW & Merc weren't £100k entry point. Cheapest BMW is under £30k so you're a bit way off there.
Not really. As I understand it, Jaguar aren't going after the 1- or 3-Series. They're going for a large, luxury GT and then a couple of SUVs. A BMW i7 starts at about £115k, the iX from about £125k. Porsche Taycan starts at £90k and goes up to almost £190k. From what I have read, that is right where Jaguar are aiming, so they'll be up against the same types of brands they've always been up against.
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Tuesday 3rd December 10:13
Jon_S_Rally said:
Not really. As I understand it, Jaguar aren't going after the 1- or 3-Series. They're going for a large, luxury GT and then a couple of SUVs. A BMW i7 starts at about £115k, the iX from about £125k. Porsche Taycan starts at £90k and goes up to almost £190k.
From what I have read, that is right where Jaguar are aiming, so they'll be up against the same types of brands they've always been up against.
Including Range Rover.From what I have read, that is right where Jaguar are aiming, so they'll be up against the same types of brands they've always been up against.
Dino550 said:
I was watching a vid involving Carl Hartley recently. Not for long because he is a bit annoying. He hit the nail on the head for me “Who ever lusted after an EV?”. Hit the nail on the head.
It’s a shame JLR cannot get their s
t together and compete properly with the Germans. I owned an XFR… great car. Build quality could have been better but a great car nonetheless.
This basically the Rimac is not a big seller (relative to other million plus things). So if you don't just after a EV hypercar what's to lust after a jag that looks like a cadilac but is priced like a Rolls Royce who also do EVs but that look like the brand your buying.It’s a shame JLR cannot get their s
t together and compete properly with the Germans. I owned an XFR… great car. Build quality could have been better but a great car nonetheless. An EV XJ likely would have been nice like a i7 etc. But this looks like an Audi GT / 90s concept car from America but I would rather have the Audi or the concept.
ettore said:
The customers exist - the £120k+ market is pretty big and, in reality, isn’t too far from Jaguars historic market positioning. All of the large saloons, from SS to XJ, were essentially cut price Bentleys and wouldn’t be far away from this segment today.
Porsche sell sport cars, saloon cars, EV’s, and SUV’s that compete with each other at that price point, so there should be no concern about Range Rover. The latter is limited by the 4x4 thing anyway, so there’s room for the luxury boulevardier…
Porsche sells 1 EV car in the £100k+ price bracket, the Taycan, and that is currently a disaster. The depreciation is beyond horrendous. Maybe in 10 years time when technology has stabilised, but at the moment the second you drive an EV out of the showroom it is old technology. So spending £100k+ on badly dating tech is never going to work.Porsche sell sport cars, saloon cars, EV’s, and SUV’s that compete with each other at that price point, so there should be no concern about Range Rover. The latter is limited by the 4x4 thing anyway, so there’s room for the luxury boulevardier…
Edited by ettore on Tuesday 3rd December 10:15
Evercross said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
Not really. As I understand it, Jaguar aren't going after the 1- or 3-Series. They're going for a large, luxury GT and then a couple of SUVs. A BMW i7 starts at about £115k, the iX from about £125k. Porsche Taycan starts at £90k and goes up to almost £190k.
From what I have read, that is right where Jaguar are aiming, so they'll be up against the same types of brands they've always been up against.
Including Range Rover.From what I have read, that is right where Jaguar are aiming, so they'll be up against the same types of brands they've always been up against.
Jon_S_Rally said:
But what do you actually do instead? People keep saying that EVs give us the freedom to make cars look different, but how? As I said in my previous post, if you move the cabin right to the front, it will make it look like a people carrier or a tractor unit. If you put it in the middle, the car will look like a saloon or coupe. Put it at the back and it will look (as in the case of the Type 00) like an old fashioned, front-engine GT or sports car.
You mean like this 
https://www.motorcities.org/story-of-the-week/2016...
Their intent seems to be to sack off existing Jaguar customers and appeal to the wealthiest city dwellers, they will have these ‘house of jaguar’ showrooms in the most prestigious cities. No talk about driving experience, everything is centred around image.
They seem to be trying to attract the most repulsive wealthy people possible, with the European market as an afterthought. Early days, but this car crash makes for interesting viewing at least.
They seem to be trying to attract the most repulsive wealthy people possible, with the European market as an afterthought. Early days, but this car crash makes for interesting viewing at least.
Gericho said:
I like it. But if Jaguar weren't selling enough cars, then now they'll sell a lot less and only to niche customers. So how is that better?
Sell fewer at higher prices. Like Bentley, RR, etc. They are moving away from being a mid range premium manufacturer which is the right move IMO. They can't compete with Audi/VW, BMW, Merc, Lexus, etc.If you make something that 90% of people hate and 10% of people adore you have the possibility of sales and success.
If you make something that 100% of people think is utterly "meh" and you're everyones 3rd or 4th choice you won't; see the XE and last model XF that ironically only sold at all because of the Jaguar brand. If they'd been from some new Chinese entrant to the market they'd have been lauded as a reasonable first effort and forgotten about immediately.
Big, expensive, fast, striking cars? Back to their roots stuff for Jaguar, and I like it. It's where they'd have ended up anyway if they'd stuck with their genuinely premium strategy circa 2010 when they had a great lineup, rather than switching strategy to try and be another purveyor of volume shovelware.
If you make something that 100% of people think is utterly "meh" and you're everyones 3rd or 4th choice you won't; see the XE and last model XF that ironically only sold at all because of the Jaguar brand. If they'd been from some new Chinese entrant to the market they'd have been lauded as a reasonable first effort and forgotten about immediately.
Big, expensive, fast, striking cars? Back to their roots stuff for Jaguar, and I like it. It's where they'd have ended up anyway if they'd stuck with their genuinely premium strategy circa 2010 when they had a great lineup, rather than switching strategy to try and be another purveyor of volume shovelware.
BlimeyCharlie said:
You've all been duped.
A lot of fuss over a concept.
Which was the whole point.
I’d believe that if they hadn’t had a sense of humour failure over the advert.A lot of fuss over a concept.
Which was the whole point.
When the world collectively went ‘huh?!’
Adrian Mardell sends an internal memo accusing anyone who doesn’t like it of being racist or homophobic.
It smacks of a plan to wow the world which has tripped on the red carpet.
The image won’t recover from this misstep.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff