RE: Dream-grade Ford Escort RS1600i for sale
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
The Toyota Celica GT-Four ST165 and ST185 were both on sale in the 80's and far more advanced. Both with actual WRC championship winning pedigree too. Try and find a ST165 for sale. Whereas there are plenty of Cossies.
Then you look at the Nissan Skyline GT-R, Toyota Supra MK3. Both inline 6 turbo's with more power than the Sierra. MK3 Supra was on sale from 1986 and the Skyline in 1989.
Toyota didn't win the WRC until the '90s technically. The Celica was a very understated car, with less power than the Sierra Cosworth in road trim. Crucially, it was also a coupe rather than a hatch/saloon, so wouldn't have had such broad appeal to family types. You could say similar about Lancia of course. The Delta was all-conquering, but they were still a relatively rare sight. Again, they were less powerful in road trim than the Sierra too. Both probably suffered as a result of brand loyalty. As you said in another post, Ford was seen as a British brand, and people were much more inclined to "buy local" then. The rallying comparison also does a disservice to the success the Sierra enjoyed in touring car racing.Then you look at the Nissan Skyline GT-R, Toyota Supra MK3. Both inline 6 turbo's with more power than the Sierra. MK3 Supra was on sale from 1986 and the Skyline in 1989.
The issue with the Skyline is that it simply wasn't available in the UK. We didn't have the internet to watch videos of them, so most people probably didn't even know the R32 GT-R even existed back in 1989.
BricktopST205 said:
The Toyota Celica GT-Four ST165 and ST185 were both on sale in the 80's and far more advanced. Both with actual WRC championship winning pedigree too. Try and find a ST165 for sale. Whereas there are plenty of Cossies.
Then you look at the Nissan Skyline GT-R, Toyota Supra MK3. Both inline 6 turbo's with more power than the Sierra. MK3 Supra was on sale from 1986 and the Skyline in 1989.
Did they win practically every circuit race they entered in Europe, in that period?Then you look at the Nissan Skyline GT-R, Toyota Supra MK3. Both inline 6 turbo's with more power than the Sierra. MK3 Supra was on sale from 1986 and the Skyline in 1989.
People laughing at the price tag may be right. We'll know in 10 years time when we see how much they fetch then. I have a feeling someone paying £45K today might have the last laugh.
It doesn't seem that long ago that anyone prepared to pay £20K, the going price for an immaculate Mk1 Lotus Cortina, was laughed at too. These are nudging £80K today.
As for the RS1600i, It's a Ford, it's rare, it's the hot version of a basic family car, if I was a betting man and looking at the form book, my money would be on it increasing in value as the years go by.
It doesn't seem that long ago that anyone prepared to pay £20K, the going price for an immaculate Mk1 Lotus Cortina, was laughed at too. These are nudging £80K today.
As for the RS1600i, It's a Ford, it's rare, it's the hot version of a basic family car, if I was a betting man and looking at the form book, my money would be on it increasing in value as the years go by.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
People laughing at the price tag may be right. We'll know in 10 years time when we see how much they fetch then. I have a feeling someone paying £45K today might have the last laugh.
It doesn't seem that long ago that anyone prepared to pay £20K, the going price for an immaculate Mk1 Lotus Cortina, was laughed at too. These are nudging £80K today.
As for the RS1600i, It's a Ford, it's rare, it's the hot version of a basic family car, if I was a betting man and looking at the form book, my money would be on it increasing in value as the years go by.
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.It doesn't seem that long ago that anyone prepared to pay £20K, the going price for an immaculate Mk1 Lotus Cortina, was laughed at too. These are nudging £80K today.
As for the RS1600i, It's a Ford, it's rare, it's the hot version of a basic family car, if I was a betting man and looking at the form book, my money would be on it increasing in value as the years go by.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
J4CKO said:
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's and 70's by now. Those that would have bought one have done so. Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I wouldn't even entertain a MK2 Escort but I would definitely take a second glance at 4x4 Saph Cossie simply because I am a different generation. Not because one is better than the other.
BricktopST205 said:
J4CKO said:
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's and 70's by now. Those that would have bought one have done so. Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I wouldn't even entertain a MK2 Escort but I would definitely take a second glance at 4x4 Saph Cossie simply because I am a different generation. Not because one is better than the other.
I bought my MK2 Escort RS2000 in 1983. Although it was a quick car back then it felt pretty agricultural.
In 1984 I replaced it with a 2.8i Capri that I loved so I skipped the less powerful MK3 Escort era completely. I prefer RWD anyway!
Mine were great back in their era, but I really wouldn't want either of them now even if I could afford them.
After my Capri I lusted after a Sierra Cosworth, but they were uninsurable at the time.
Then in the 90s I drove a mate's 2WD Sapphire around Silverstone on a track day and was totally underwhelmed with the gutless performance until the turbo woke up, and the head gasket failing after 2 laps didn't help!
I think prices might be driven by people who couldn't afford them at the time but can now. Sadly they may be disappointed.
Mr Tidy said:
BricktopST205 said:
J4CKO said:
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's and 70's by now. Those that would have bought one have done so. Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I wouldn't even entertain a MK2 Escort but I would definitely take a second glance at 4x4 Saph Cossie simply because I am a different generation. Not because one is better than the other.
I bought my MK2 Escort RS2000 in 1983. Although it was a quick car back then it felt pretty agricultural.
In 1984 I replaced it with a 2.8i Capri that I loved so I skipped the less powerful MK3 Escort era completely. I prefer RWD anyway!
Mine were great back in their era, but I really wouldn't want either of them now even if I could afford them.
After my Capri I lusted after a Sierra Cosworth, but they were uninsurable at the time.
Then in the 90s I drove a mate's 2WD Sapphire around Silverstone on a track day and was totally underwhelmed with the gutless performance until the turbo woke up, and the head gasket failing after 2 laps didn't help!
I think prices might be driven by people who couldn't afford them at the time but can now. Sadly they may be disappointed.
One time owner of a Mk2 1600 Sport back in 1980.
Not a bad car back in the day, obviously nostalgia has drove the prices up in recent times but I think we are reaching a point where that market has now been drained. Lotus Cortinas especially in Mk1 guise will always command high prices just like the first Sierra Cosworths but not so sure about every old Ford will like in recent times.
My guess is next the market will move on to 80s cars like the VW Golf GTI.
Saying all that I see a nice Morris Marina van from the 70s make good money at a Mathewson’s auction.
Mr Tidy said:
BricktopST205 said:
J4CKO said:
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's and 70's by now. Those that would have bought one have done so. Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I wouldn't even entertain a MK2 Escort but I would definitely take a second glance at 4x4 Saph Cossie simply because I am a different generation. Not because one is better than the other.
I bought my MK2 Escort RS2000 in 1983. Although it was a quick car back then it felt pretty agricultural.
In 1984 I replaced it with a 2.8i Capri that I loved so I skipped the less powerful MK3 Escort era completely. I prefer RWD anyway!
Mine were great back in their era, but I really wouldn't want either of them now even if I could afford them.
After my Capri I lusted after a Sierra Cosworth, but they were uninsurable at the time.
Then in the 90s I drove a mate's 2WD Sapphire around Silverstone on a track day and was totally underwhelmed with the gutless performance until the turbo woke up, and the head gasket failing after 2 laps didn't help!
I think prices might be driven by people who couldn't afford them at the time but can now. Sadly they may be disappointed.
Was the Sapphire Cosworth that you drove standard? I've driven a couple of them running around 270bhp over the years, and I thought they were pretty quick to be honest at the time.
BricktopST205 said:
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's
That would be me, and I'm glad I had most of the RS Fords mentioned on this thread years ago. Because today mk2 Escorts would be well beaten by a £5k Fiesta ST and most Cosworths by a £15k Golf R. I get that nostalgia trumps performance when it comes to old Fords, but having been there and done that many years ago, I don't have rose tinted specs for old cars, at todays money. RSstuff said:
BricktopST205 said:
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's
That would be me, and I'm glad I had most of the RS Fords mentioned on this thread years ago. Because today mk2 Escorts would be well beaten by a £5k Fiesta ST and most Cosworths by a £15k Golf R. I get that nostalgia trumps performance when it comes to old Fords, but having been there and done that many years ago, I don't have rose tinted specs for old cars, at todays money. I went for a drive last Sunday morning in our old ST150 which is worth barely £2K and just revelled in the enjoyment of a modernish car which provided me such a great drive and yet I know is still very attainable. Right now, I personally think the MK7 Fiesta ST is the one to buy and store away. They are so cheap for what they offer and unlike many of the old Fords it was class leading when on sale. There will never be any more supermini sized ICE powered hot hatches, so its one of the last of the dinosaurs I feel! A bona fide modern classic if ever there was one!!!
I had an Rs1600i back in 2000; well half shared with a mate. Can’t remember the exact price but no more than £500; £250 each. For an n/a 1600 it went really well and we battered it round the local streets like it was silverstone! It did have a performance exhaust on it and sounded really quite fruity, it’s a car I look back on with fond memories. I seem to remember we scrapped it, although mechanically it was still in good condition. How times change…
greenarrow said:
I went for a drive last Sunday morning in our old ST150 which is worth barely £2K and just revelled in the enjoyment of a modernish car which provided me such a great drive and yet I know is still very attainable.
When I gave up on the idea of a Corsa Nurburgring for a runabout, I started looking for a Fiesta. The ST150 seemed like a good idea until I checked the road tax, and apparently they drink petrol like it's going out of fashion. So I bought a mk7 1.6 Zetec S Fiesta instead. Mrs RSstuff who has no interest in cars, has noticed it hasn't been washed for 6 months though.cerb4.5lee said:
Mr Tidy said:
BricktopST205 said:
J4CKO said:
All classics have a lifecycle, its not a constant and permanent uptick in values, so many factors.
Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I think this is also an age thing. The people who would have lusted after a MK1 or MK2 escort are all well into their 60's and 70's by now. Those that would have bought one have done so. Mk1 and 2 Escorts seem to not be commanding the massive prices in a lot of cases that they were, a little heat has gone out of the market based on auction prices. I think people get them, have it for a bit, relive their youth and move them on, need the money for kids house depsosits and similar based on what a friend at work was saying recently.
I think it will have a good value for a long time but its investment potential has, for the time being, been realised by the seller currently offering it and if you pay over 40 grand for it may be waiting for inflation to bump it up rather than some massive clamour for an RS1600i, sure they were good but its a small group of buyer that A, want one, and B, have a enough money to drop over 40 grand on one.
I wouldn't even entertain a MK2 Escort but I would definitely take a second glance at 4x4 Saph Cossie simply because I am a different generation. Not because one is better than the other.
I bought my MK2 Escort RS2000 in 1983. Although it was a quick car back then it felt pretty agricultural.
In 1984 I replaced it with a 2.8i Capri that I loved so I skipped the less powerful MK3 Escort era completely. I prefer RWD anyway!
Mine were great back in their era, but I really wouldn't want either of them now even if I could afford them.
After my Capri I lusted after a Sierra Cosworth, but they were uninsurable at the time.
Then in the 90s I drove a mate's 2WD Sapphire around Silverstone on a track day and was totally underwhelmed with the gutless performance until the turbo woke up, and the head gasket failing after 2 laps didn't help!
I think prices might be driven by people who couldn't afford them at the time but can now. Sadly they may be disappointed.
Was the Sapphire Cosworth that you drove standard? I've driven a couple of them running around 270bhp over the years, and I thought they were pretty quick to be honest at the time.
Hence all the ‘lukewarm’ hatches released at that time before things calmed down again
I also thought they were pretty quick back then too though, even with the normal 200ish bhp. Of course, any electric car can romp into the 5s or less nowadays
cerb4.5lee said:
That makes me think back to the Fiesta RS Turbo that I really wanted back when I was 20. I could afford to buy the car, but I couldn't stretch to the insurance at the time though sadly. So that is a car that I've always lusted after ever since.
Was the Sapphire Cosworth that you drove standard? I've driven a couple of them running around 270bhp over the years, and I thought they were pretty quick to be honest at the time.
I never got a Cosworth because in the early/mid 90s they were virtually uninsurable. My mate had a trade policy so it covered absolutely anything, but for a few years any Sierra Cosworth was specifically excluded!Was the Sapphire Cosworth that you drove standard? I've driven a couple of them running around 270bhp over the years, and I thought they were pretty quick to be honest at the time.
The one I drove was standard as it was one my salvage dealer mate had bought after a fire in the dash so he just got that fixed. Turbo lag was the issue. Too few revs and it bogged down, keep the revs up but half way round a corner it then got very twitchy. He also took an XR4i and that was so much more predictable on the twisty bits, just not as quick on the straights.
But the Cosworth wasn't quick at all for long as the head gasket let go when I was flat out on the Hangar Straight overtaking my mate in the XR4i. That XR4i was the only car that survived all our track days and was driven home!
Mr Tidy said:
The one I drove was standard as it was one my salvage dealer mate had bought after a fire in the dash so he just got that fixed. Turbo lag was the issue. Too few revs and it bogged down, keep the revs up but half way round a corner it then got very twitchy. He also took an XR4i and that was so much more predictable on the twisty bits, just not as quick on the straights.
I think we've been over this before, but if you couldn't keep a small t3 turbo on boost on a wide and long GP track then there was something seriously, seriously wrong with the example you drove, as evidenced by the head gasket blowing.Olivera said:
Mr Tidy said:
The one I drove was standard as it was one my salvage dealer mate had bought after a fire in the dash so he just got that fixed. Turbo lag was the issue. Too few revs and it bogged down, keep the revs up but half way round a corner it then got very twitchy. He also took an XR4i and that was so much more predictable on the twisty bits, just not as quick on the straights.
I think we've been over this before, but if you couldn't keep a small t3 turbo on boost on a wide and long GP track then there was something seriously, seriously wrong with the example you drove, as evidenced by the head gasket blowing.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff