An "Insight" into the future!

[anonymous-user]

peterperkins said:

4) The cars produce much less CO2, and hopefully are better for the environment.

5) I'm saving a fortune as well as the planet.

So either you don't give a toss about the planet part and are just saving yourself wads of cash at the expense of the planet by knowingly driving an eco-nightmare, or you are ignorant of/unwilling to acknowledge the true cost of your actions. Which is it?

Edited by jimsupersix on Tuesday 28th November 12:43

Edited by jimsupersix on Tuesday 28th November 12:44

[baSkey]

as ever though 'saving the planet' = hmm.

as mentioned i struggle with the enviroMental arguments because of bettery production and disposal, power stations that still aren't all hydro electric. even if they were hydro electric you'd need loads of power to manufacture all of the concrete to build the thing and pollute with all of the 'fall out' of concrete production etc etc.. blah blah.
____________
but if you do believe that then at least you are practicing what you preach and good on you for that!

one thing i do find interesting is the 'phenomenon' of 'hacking' electric cars that's going on in the US. fitting bigger batteries and tweeking them so they go quickly...
____________

i quite fancy an insight. thing is it'd be fitted with a b18 motor and be dropped on the floor..!

[Wacky Racer]

peterperkins said:

I used Thunder Sky Lithium-Ion batteries in my EV, yes they are expensive £4500.

[peterperkins]

Davi said:

One other question for you...

Knowing Liths ability to go into self-fuelling thermal runaway, leading to explosion and the release of lethally toxic gasses through nothing more serious than a single cell over discharge, how do you feel about the safety aspect of your van, and how have you overcome the need for cell balancing when charging that many?!

Urban Myth really, the cells I have are very rugged and don't busrt into flame, explode, etc at the drop of a hat. I monitor and balance them carefully with simple circuits on each cell. Not rocket science at all. Some cells do burn, i've seen the videos, generally only through gross abuse. Direct short circuit, grossly overcharged, punctured etc. Bit like your fuel tank really. I am confident enough to have driven it for the last 3 years with the cells over 20,000 miles. I agree the technology is not there yet, but it's comming up on the outside pretty fast now. Nanotechnology,Supercapcitors etc

[peterperkins]

Davi said:

could you give me the specs on those packs please? that's very cheap compared to the ones I use in my aircraft!!! (one of my packs is £250 on it's own - and that's only 4 cell)

I bought 30x200ah 3.6v nominal Li-Ion cells in Sept 2003 as part of a UK enthusiast bulk purchase group. Cost £4500. Capacity about 20kwh, peak power capability about 40kw, life unknown, I had the money spare so took a gamble, It's expensive trying new technology.

[peterperkins]

jimsupersix said:

peterperkins said:

4) The cars produce much less CO2, and hopefully are better for the environment.

5) I'm saving a fortune as well as the planet.

So either you don't give a toss about the planet part and are just saving yourself wads of cash at the expense of the planet by knowingly driving an eco-nightmare, or you are ignorant of/unwilling to acknowledge the true cost of your actions. Which is it?

Both

Ok, Truce read these instead

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=330899&f=23&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=330897&f=23&h=0

[markelvin]

Dilligaf10 said:

Is there a "BatteryHeads" site somewhere?

Typical narrowminded response.

i like mine because it's different

[markelvin]

mr_tony said:

peterperkins said:

My advice, ditch the gas guzzler while it's still worth something, and get an Insight if you can find one, or a Toyota Prius and save wads of cash!

Regards and happy xmas to all.

Peter

Hmm having met several insites on the road (the Aero seems to attract them - perhaps they like the smell of Ash Frame or something?) they are intollerably slow vehicles. Ran with one in heaviy traffic coming back from bournemouth last year. WHen we hit the long uphill climb the poor thing slowed to a crawl and seemed to struggle somewhat - created a huge jam anyway.

?

113mph from a 950 is not intolerably slow.

[GKP]

£4500 for some batteries?!!

I'll sell you my Range Rover complete with V5 ,new Mot and a full tank of petrol for that - but only if you promise never to use one of those filthy polluting hybrid cars ever again.

[andytk]

peterperkins said:

and as we move to a non fossil fuel transport economy they will improve, and come down in price.

I just love these quotes.

Yup, I'm sure a rare earth metal battery system will come down in price as 500 million G8 country occupants try and buy a cars worth each.

Just like coal gets cheaper the more we pull out the ground, and all that reaaallly cheap oil we're producing. No, wait, it doesn't work like that.

The big problems with batteries is that a large percentage of their costs are material costs. And so don't get cheaper the more you make. Indeed supply and demand dictate that the price goes up.

I fear that supply and demand will ensure batteries remain really expensive.

And, yes, I know that they're recyleable, but 200kg of lithium/lead/nickel per person multiplied by 500 million people is a sodding lot of stuff.

Just look at what's happening in the solar panel market right now. A lack of supply of high quality silicone crystal material (used for making computer chips too) is driving solar panel prices up, despite reductions in the cost of manufacturing them. The cost of the base material is a very real concern.

Andy

[off_again]

Jeez, give them a break will you?

So we have a couple of people on PH who have the satan of all 4 wheels vehicles - Hybrids.... pass me the cross, we have to burn the heretics...

Or alternatively these are just normal people who wanted to save some money. By the responses so far, they are both more than aware of the impact of the use of batteries and the potential environmental issues involved. However, I am not going to say that you cannot have them because they are un-Pistonheads like. I mean, its still a car and in a geeky kind of way they are also interesting.

It is not going to be me that says that you cannot / shouldnt buy a Hybrid if you want to save money (though I do have a problem with the Prius as they are really not as economical as Toyota says!). Given the current system, why the hell not - and I am certainly not against LPG or even diesel for that matter.

Bring on the technology is what I say - more choice is better for everyone. Electric Elise? Now we are talking...

[markelvin]

An electric Elis must be rubbish as it uses batteries!!!!!!!!!! Oh the irony

[mr_tony]

markelvin said:

Hmm having met several insites on the road (the Aero seems to attract them - perhaps they like the smell of Ash Frame or something?) they are intollerably slow vehicles.

Ran with one in heaviy traffic coming back from bournemouth last year. WHen we hit the long uphill climb the poor thing slowed to a crawl and seemed to struggle somewhat - created a huge jam anyway.

?

113mph from a 950 is not intolerably slow.
[/quote]

Top speed means nothing in terms of speed - really! It's not how fast it goes - it how quickly it gets there.

Look - a ford focus 1.6 will top out at 120 - as will a lotus elise - though the lotus will get there in around 15-20 seconds, and the ford will take near a minute. The ford is not a fast car because its capable of 120mph - it's a just a slow car with an average top speed.

Top speed (and a low CoD) does not make a car fast.
Accelleration - 0-60 and 0-100 figures will tell the truth here (specifically the 0-100).

I'd be interested to hear the figures from Honda.

Edited by mr_tony on Tuesday 28th November 13:28

[markelvin]

On a gps system the time for my car is 9.6s 0-60

[GregE240]

peterperkins said:

I don't disagree/object to any of the replies here, personal choice and all that. All entitled to our view. You can drive about in your (Insert car name here!) if you like. I choose my way so I could spend more cash on wine, women and song, or beer and girls if you like! I used Thunder Sky Lithium-Ion batteries in my EV, yes they are expensive £4500. Some posters have complained about these rare and expensive batteries, I take your point, but they are all now recyclable, you can't just chuck batteries away like we used too. So yes they cost a lot in small volumes, but can be recycled and as we move to a non fossil fuel transport economy they will improve, and come down in price. I agree an EV is a short range only vehicle at present. Just the other side of the coin. Regards Peter

Dear Peter,

The figure you quote would fill my Mercedes SL 68 times, based on a petrol price of around 85p a litre. And not wishing to bang my own drum, but I'd much rather travel in it than a bileous yellow Bedford van.

Each to their own eh?

Just the other side of the coin.

All the best,
Greg

[Dilligaf10]

markelvin said:

Dilligaf10 said:

Is there a "BatteryHeads" site somewhere?

Typical narrowminded response.

i like mine because it's different

The reason for that comment is that I always thought that PH was for enthusiasts of the internal combustion engine, the clue is in the title.
It is not how little fuel a vehicle uses it is how little per person travelling it uses. i.e a coach with 50 people travelling at 8mpg is a lot more economical than 2 people in a vehicle at 80mpg.

[markelvin]

OK, go buy a coach then!!!!!!!....Thought not

The Insight does have an i/c engine!!!!!

[Dilligaf10]

markelvin said:

OK, go buy a coach then!!!!!!!....Thought not

The Insight does have an i/c engine!!!!!

Actually I work for a company that has 40 of them!!!!!

I realise that the Insight has an i/c engine what it lacks is enthusiasm!!!!!!

[mr_tony]

markelvin said:

On a gps system the time for my car is 9.6s 0-60

The 0-100 is the more interesting figure. Though 9.6 0-60 is fairly reasonable, assuming it's not downhill with a following wind! Maybe the average Insite driver I've met is just very timid as it certainly hasn't displayed any hint of such a level of performance..

How does it cope with hills? I only ask as the ones I've seen do seem (for want of a better word) to struggle. They remind me of my 1.2 Astra (1990G reg 1.2 merit 4 speed mk3) - you just keep your foot planted and select 3rd and pray.... (Halldon hill in devon was it's nemesis).

Seriously though - I'm not ahving a go - I do admire the engineering thats gone into the Insite - it's just that this is obviosuly a prototype vehicle that cost Honda a lot to make, thats been put out there to gather info in order to evaulate creating another iteration or not. Given that the insite is canned and there has been no news about a successor it would appear Honda didn't think it was worth pursuing either. (Thats discounting the civic, becuase as you say it's rubbish!).

If you're a big electric vehicle fan, then maybe investigate the 'lifecar' that morgan are involved in creating? That should at least ahve a decent turn of speed, and will likely be built at least partially of wood

Edited by mr_tony on Tuesday 28th November 13:42

[markelvin]

Dilligaf10 I take it you talk from experiance then?

Edited by markelvin on Tuesday 28th November 13:44