RE: Ford Fiesta ST
Discussion
smeigh said:
Well a Fiesta ST is GROUP 13 Insurence and what is a 182? hmmmmm 16 / 17 so i would prefer to spend the extra £1k from insurence on turning the ST to at least 170bhp from manifold £300, Exhaust £300, Induction kit £100,Re map £250, Spark Leads £50 then maybe cams or inlet to get more with an erxtra money!
So with £1000 you are looking at around 175 bhp and if calculated with power to weight calculations it will do 0-60 in ................ 6.92!!!!!
LOl you didnt think this one though very well did you. So with £1000 you are looking at around 175 bhp and if calculated with power to weight calculations it will do 0-60 in ................ 6.92!!!!!
hmm lets modify the ST up to similar bhp of the Clio - the result may be that the ins premium is vastly higher than the std clio WHY??? because in general people who modify their cars are young people and those who modify in general have a higher accident rate than those who have std cars. Not all are but the chav's do ertainly not help your cause . Which does being into light a different question given that chavs modify their cars why would you want to associate yourself /tarnish yourself with the same filthy brush?
Moral of the story IF YOU WANT A FAST CAR BUY A FAST CAR IN THE FIRST PLACE not only will it be cheaper to insure it will have been tested merticiously in that state of tune and will be much more reliable than someone with a £20 halfords spanner set! Added to this is the fact your warranty will be void and it will accelerate the depreciation on the car. All in a pretty rubbish idea IMHO.
makaveliuk82 said:
John D. said:
Podie said:
Did you bother to read the thread at all..?
Clio 182/ Corsa VXR are not alternatives!
And
Podie said:
Did you bother to read the thread at all..?
Irony?makaveliuk82 said:
John D. said:
Podie said:
Did you bother to read the thread at all..?
Clio 182/ Corsa VXR are not alternatives!
Look at Drive the deal there is very little difference in the price between these 3 cars so in effect as your getting a lower discount on the Fiesta ST the other two represent the better buy.
John D. said:
makaveliuk82 said:
John D. said:
Podie said:
Did you bother to read the thread at all..?
Clio 182/ Corsa VXR are not alternatives!
And
Podie said:
Did you bother to read the thread at all..?
Irony?just because its different price bracket and ins group doesnt mean its not an alternative.
ppl buy cars for different reasons and are often open to varying budgets (initial car cost and insurance cost) so in my opinion, its still an alternative as its a small 'hot' hatch. granted its not as hot as some others, but its still aiming at the same market place... hence why its included in things like the top gear top 20 hot hatch reviews along with the 197.
if i was looking to a buy a quick small hatchback... i would have to consider the ST along with the VXR, 172 cup, 182 trophy, 197 cup, cooper s, ibiza cupra etc... all of which are alternatives
You're entitled to your opinion. But I suggest you read more of the thread; you will see that this point has been debated already. And you can see the context of my comment. i.e. They are not direct alternatives. So people that say the Fiesta ST is crap because it is too slow are comparing it against cars in a different performance braket.
John D. said:
You're entitled to your opinion. But I suggest you read more of the thread; you will see that this point has been debated already. And you can see the context of my comment. i.e. They are not direct alternatives. So people that say the Fiesta ST is crap because it is too slow are comparing it against cars in a different performance braket.
That's all very well, but people considering the Fiesta ST will be the same people who also consider the Clio, Corsa and so on.This is what I'm talking about:
makaveliuk82 said:
Fiesta ST doesnt really cut it for me as a small 'hot' hatch when you look at the alternatives:
Corsa VXR - boasts 0-60 in 6.5s, its better looking, more agreesive, better made and more attractive interior
Renault Clio Sport 197 / F1 / 197 cup - you have 3 versions depending on driver preference. You can pick up a 197 cup (with better suspension setup etc) for £14k brand new now with delivery mileage. Again, the 197 is much better looking, more agressive and will out handle an ST all day long
i just think the ST is a boring car... having said that, whenever i have seen one on the road, its usuually being driven by a tidy 'essex' type blonde with her chav mates in the back
Corsa VXR - boasts 0-60 in 6.5s, its better looking, more agreesive, better made and more attractive interior
Renault Clio Sport 197 / F1 / 197 cup - you have 3 versions depending on driver preference. You can pick up a 197 cup (with better suspension setup etc) for £14k brand new now with delivery mileage. Again, the 197 is much better looking, more agressive and will out handle an ST all day long
i just think the ST is a boring car... having said that, whenever i have seen one on the road, its usuually being driven by a tidy 'essex' type blonde with her chav mates in the back
John D. said:
This is what I'm talking about:
thought you was gonna give up, lolmakaveliuk82 said:
Fiesta ST doesnt really cut it for me as a small 'hot' hatch when you look at the alternatives:
Corsa VXR - boasts 0-60 in 6.5s, its better looking, more agreesive, better made and more attractive interior
Renault Clio Sport 197 / F1 / 197 cup - you have 3 versions depending on driver preference. You can pick up a 197 cup (with better suspension setup etc) for £14k brand new now with delivery mileage. Again, the 197 is much better looking, more agressive and will out handle an ST all day long
i just think the ST is a boring car... having said that, whenever i have seen one on the road, its usuually being driven by a tidy 'essex' type blonde with her chav mates in the back
Corsa VXR - boasts 0-60 in 6.5s, its better looking, more agreesive, better made and more attractive interior
Renault Clio Sport 197 / F1 / 197 cup - you have 3 versions depending on driver preference. You can pick up a 197 cup (with better suspension setup etc) for £14k brand new now with delivery mileage. Again, the 197 is much better looking, more agressive and will out handle an ST all day long
i just think the ST is a boring car... having said that, whenever i have seen one on the road, its usuually being driven by a tidy 'essex' type blonde with her chav mates in the back
like has been said before... if someone is looking for a small hot hatch they will look at all options, including the vxr and 197... therefore they are both alternatives.
and as i was pointing out... the vxr and 197 are both superior. yes they cost more and are more to insure but the definition of a hot hatch isnt based on price or insurance costs is it?
Edited by makaveliuk82 on Thursday 17th January 13:00
I've read most of the replys on this topic and just wanted to make a few points. Firstly, i'm not in the market for a hot hatch but if i was i would buy petrol. Even thought diesels have come along way and can easily be tuned nothing compares to revving a pertol engine hard. Which is surley part of the fun.
Also, i've never driven a Fiesta ST but have driven the Zetec. I know the St has some more trinkets inside but the whole interior seemed dull. The VXR/192 are in a different league in terms of performance (unless that 185bhp upgrade becomes a reality) and price so can't be compared as direct rivals.
So the comes down to money. If you can afford it, then the VXR/192 will be hot and not lukewarm. If i was on a budget i'ld ignore the Fiesta and Panda and pick up a Swift Sport for about £10K new! Looks better, not a massive drop in performance and Jap reliabilty.
Also, i've never driven a Fiesta ST but have driven the Zetec. I know the St has some more trinkets inside but the whole interior seemed dull. The VXR/192 are in a different league in terms of performance (unless that 185bhp upgrade becomes a reality) and price so can't be compared as direct rivals.
So the comes down to money. If you can afford it, then the VXR/192 will be hot and not lukewarm. If i was on a budget i'ld ignore the Fiesta and Panda and pick up a Swift Sport for about £10K new! Looks better, not a massive drop in performance and Jap reliabilty.
I suppose the Fiesta ST is about the "oldest school" of the current generation, which might make the difference.
Clio: I owned a 182, and have driven lower model mk2's. I also drove a new model mk3, not a 197 but that generation. My overall impression of it was that the chassis on the mk3 was really very good, but the steering was absolutely dreadful, and the car felt much bigger (some cars can get away with it but this doesnt) and totally disconnected. I've heard really rather negative things too about the 197 steering. I have to say that my 182 steered reasonably well compared to most, but compared to anything more "classic" the steering was lightweight and also somewhat lacking in feel. As such, that is always going to be a huge disadvantage for the clio. That same mk3 chassis with more conventional steering, and a proper diet (needs to be at about 1100 - 1150 kg tops for its size), perhaps even a small turbo to help at lower revs, and i'd say this car could really be very good, but there are just too many things against it.
Thing is on the ST185 is that its a fairly good option yes, but it still just about struggles to match a 172 / 182 power to weight ratio, and yet i imagine the mk2 clio is even more old school than the ST.
Has this car really moved the game on? I'm struggling to see it myself. A decent hot hatch yes, progression? No.
ETA: If you like driving and dont mind the odd repair now and again, a classic hot hatch / coupe / roadster is much better to drive, and saves you money. Less depreciation (hardly any / none if the right one), more fun to drive (if not always quicker outright, but they FEEL quicker), and always bags more character in my experience.
Clio: I owned a 182, and have driven lower model mk2's. I also drove a new model mk3, not a 197 but that generation. My overall impression of it was that the chassis on the mk3 was really very good, but the steering was absolutely dreadful, and the car felt much bigger (some cars can get away with it but this doesnt) and totally disconnected. I've heard really rather negative things too about the 197 steering. I have to say that my 182 steered reasonably well compared to most, but compared to anything more "classic" the steering was lightweight and also somewhat lacking in feel. As such, that is always going to be a huge disadvantage for the clio. That same mk3 chassis with more conventional steering, and a proper diet (needs to be at about 1100 - 1150 kg tops for its size), perhaps even a small turbo to help at lower revs, and i'd say this car could really be very good, but there are just too many things against it.
Thing is on the ST185 is that its a fairly good option yes, but it still just about struggles to match a 172 / 182 power to weight ratio, and yet i imagine the mk2 clio is even more old school than the ST.
Has this car really moved the game on? I'm struggling to see it myself. A decent hot hatch yes, progression? No.
ETA: If you like driving and dont mind the odd repair now and again, a classic hot hatch / coupe / roadster is much better to drive, and saves you money. Less depreciation (hardly any / none if the right one), more fun to drive (if not always quicker outright, but they FEEL quicker), and always bags more character in my experience.
Edited by pbirkett on Tuesday 5th February 21:18
pbirkett said:
ETA: If you like driving and dont mind the odd repair now and again, a classic hot hatch / coupe / roadster is much better to drive, and saves you money. Less depreciation (hardly any / none if the right one), more fun to drive (if not always quicker outright, but they FEEL quicker), and always bags more character in my experience.
Seconded, wholeheartedly. Only other downside is crash-protection...but the answer there is avoid them in the first place!
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