"Flappy paddle" Gearboxes are crap? I think not......

[///M3]

I like both but manual just nudges it for driver involvement...

[RDMcG]

What I really want is the DSG transmission with proper paddles instead of those awful buttons.

[anonymous-user]

In response to DSGs etc etc manufacturers of conventional torque converter autos have come up with some outstanding paddle-shift versions. The 6-speed in the latest Corvettes is highly recommended. Very quick and reliable shifting with well-chosen ratios. There are some fantastic auto boxes around these days and plenty of driver involvement when required.

My ideal auto would have a couple of additional buttons on the steering wheel;
One to give a downshift on request while still in full auto mode (perfect for overtake preparation), and
The other to lock out first gear when crawling in traffic in full auto mode.

[Speed_Demon]

Prefer manual stick, for the invlovement with the car and gives me much more flexibility.

[jimmyb]

The only problem with flappy paddle boxes is working out which is which on the ones fixed to the wheel.

I am firmly of the belief the remedy is for both paddles to function the same. Push down pull up. The paddles would need a natural curve in them as well to get your fingers under and over in a comfortable fashion.

Like both manual and paddleshift myself they both have their places.

[parapaul]

Noger said:

Quickness isn't the main reason for proper flappy paddle changes, the difference is tiny anyway.

The main reason, but still not that useful on the road unless you are at 11/10th, is that you can change gear mid corner and not upset the balance of the car.

Of course, you shouldn't be changing gear mid-corner anyway, thus eliminating the only benefit of flappy paddle 'boxes

Manual or full auto for me.

[thinfourth2]

Flappy paddle gearbox on car = Another thing to go wrong

[Noger]

parapaul said:

Noger said:

Quickness isn't the main reason for proper flappy paddle changes, the difference is tiny anyway.

The main reason, but still not that useful on the road unless you are at 11/10th, is that you can change gear mid corner and not upset the balance of the car.

Of course, you shouldn't be changing gear mid-corner anyway, thus eliminating the only benefit of flappy paddle 'boxes

Manual or full auto for me.

Er, right. What do you do ? Just sit there on the limiter in the middle of the corner ? What if you have the grip to go faster ?

The reason you "shouldn't be changing gear mind-corner" is that in most normal shifting cars it will upset the balance of the car adversely. Not that there is some law against doing it.

So if you CAN shift in the corner when you NEED to (not advocating doing it all the time BTW) then it is an advantage. Plus you can keep both hands on the wheel.

To quote Don Palmer ...

"Sometimes it is desirable to change gear in the middle of a corner and in this instance the engine speed must accurately match the road speed for the gear selected. In mid corner near to the limit of adhesion the torque reversal due to errors in crude throttle operation and poor gear selection can have a catastrophic effect upon vehicle stability. It is imperative that gear changes under these conditions are made smoothly. "

Not as much "fun" perhaps, but faster on a track.

Edited by Noger on Saturday 16th May 12:14

[Henry Hawthorne]

I drove an F430 Spider on my 18th birthday, and apart from it being very fast and very cool, it had a paddle-shift gearbox. Yes the shift was very fast and very easy, but I found it a bit odd that they shifters were mounted on the column rather than the steering wheel, so if you were turning you had to take a hand off of the wheel if you wanted to shift. I found the paddles hard to find if I was turning, but I'm sure you'd get used to it if you owned the car.

[mizx]

It's not exactly relavent to the question, but all I can say is not all of us have manual licenses.

I'm just quite thankfull that I can at least drive such a car should I have the cash to buy one, sadly I don't have that option with some of my absolute favorites.

Edited by mizx on Saturday 16th May 12:02

[jimmyb]

Henry Hawthorne said:

I drove an F430 Spider on my 18th birthday, and apart from it being very fast and very cool, it had a paddle-shift gearbox. Yes the shift was very fast and very easy, but I found it a bit odd that they shifters were mounted on the column rather than the steering wheel, so if you were turning you had to take a hand off of the wheel if you wanted to shift. I found the paddles hard to find if I was turning, but I'm sure you'd get used to it if you owned the car.

The reason for that is due to what imho is the badly thought out layout of these paddle shifts on a whole.As said in my earlier post the correct way to set them up would be both paddles do exactly the same. Push away to go down pull up to go up. Paddles can then be mounted to the wheel and there is no need to have to think about which paddle is down and which is up.

[crofty1984]

stephen300o said:

I think it's just the old dears that have spent a life time perfecting heel'n'toe they don't want to face that its now redundant.;)

Blah blah, just realised how old this thread is and that I actually said the same think a few posts up!

Edited by crofty1984 on Saturday 16th May 22:29

[zektor]

Polarbert said:

I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.


I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.

I'm with you on this one...

Where the fun in automated seamless shifts?

In my Mustang, fighting for traction and chirping the tyres when swapping cogs is all part of the drama. Without that sense of 'man wrestling machine' every time you get on it... I'd be bored.

I would say in absolutely every instance, a car with a straight manual gearbox is more of a drivers car than any other version of that same car with a SMG type gearbox.

[pits]

I have got Tip tronic box in mine, and to be fair, I bought the auto/tip box to give it a shot, after a year, I want to set it on fire, and drop it off a cliff, granted not flappy padels, I can retro fit them, but the tiptronic is just st, I want to change 4-2 or 5-3, I have to go through an extra gear, manual box, I dont have to drop into 3rd or 4th to drop 2 gears and boot.

Complete waste of time and effort the tiptronic box in my car, when I get around to converting it to manual I will take great pleasure in fking the autobox up good and proper, proper cars need a clutch and a stick which you can select which gear you want, when you want, not having to go through other gears to get where you want, it doesnt suck any power from the car....

Tiptronic etc can all burn in hell


poxy idea

[robsti]

D_T_W said:

Polarbert said:

I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.


I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.

Don't care how good they become, i'd rather have a clutch and gearstick as well. I've only driven 1 DSG equipped car, a SEAT Leon 2.0 FSI, and the gearbox did nothing but drive me insane. Pulling out of junctions when i want to be in second, the blooy thing would hold second, then the moment i go for the throttle, it bangs it into first and i'm kangaroo'ing like a bloody learner. Also, slow speed manouvering was a right pain in the arse.

Give me control of the clutch pedal and put paddles for the gearchange on the wheel with me in complete control of what gear i want i might consider it, but until that happens i'll stick with a proper manual

You must of had it in auto if not it keeps the gear you select

[Daniel1]

jimmyb said:

The only problem with flappy paddle boxes is working out which is which on the ones fixed to the wheel.

I am firmly of the belief the remedy is for both paddles to function the same. Push down pull up. The paddles would need a natural curve in them as well to get your fingers under and over in a comfortable fashion.

Like both manual and paddleshift myself they both have their places.

you do get used to where they are, and pardon the pun, it becomes automatic

[catso]

robsti said:

D_T_W said:

Polarbert said:

I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.


I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.

Don't care how good they become, i'd rather have a clutch and gearstick as well. I've only driven 1 DSG equipped car, a SEAT Leon 2.0 FSI, and the gearbox did nothing but drive me insane. Pulling out of junctions when i want to be in second, the blooy thing would hold second, then the moment i go for the throttle, it bangs it into first and i'm kangaroo'ing like a bloody learner. Also, slow speed manouvering was a right pain in the arse.

Give me control of the clutch pedal and put paddles for the gearchange on the wheel with me in complete control of what gear i want i might consider it, but until that happens i'll stick with a proper manual

You must of had it in auto if not it keeps the gear you select

Indeed, as the owner of a DSG car I have read a lot of misinformation about how they work on this site over the years. If in manual it stays in the selected gear unless;

1. You reach the rev limiter under acceleration in which case it upshifts.
2. You accelerate hard enough to activate 'kickdown' in which case it downshifts as many gears as neccessary to give maximum acceleration
3. You slow down to a speed at which it can't pull a high gear so it downshifts.
4. You stop in which case it selects 1st.

In auto 'D' it behaves like a conventional auto with the only drawback of being a bit 'grabby' from a standing start and not holding on a hill like a 'slushbox' auto.

Edited by catso on Saturday 16th May 23:40

[ChapppeRS]

mizx said:

It's not exactly relavent to the question, but all I can say is not all of us have manual licenses.

I'm just quite thankfull that I can at least drive such a car should I have the cash to buy one, sadly I don't have that option with some of my absolute favorites.

Edited by mizx on Saturday 16th May 12:02

Right, except that people who can't figure out the "complexities" of using a clutch and a gear stick shouldn't reeeaaally be allowed high power cars.

If it's a medical reason I apologise, but otherwise I wouldn't trust someone who had failed their manual license to drive me around in anything you could spec a DSG in.

[robsti]

catso said:

robsti said:

D_T_W said:

Polarbert said:

I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.


I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.

Don't care how good they become, i'd rather have a clutch and gearstick as well. I've only driven 1 DSG equipped car, a SEAT Leon 2.0 FSI, and the gearbox did nothing but drive me insane. Pulling out of junctions when i want to be in second, the blooy thing would hold second, then the moment i go for the throttle, it bangs it into first and i'm kangaroo'ing like a bloody learner. Also, slow speed manouvering was a right pain in the arse.

Give me control of the clutch pedal and put paddles for the gearchange on the wheel with me in complete control of what gear i want i might consider it, but until that happens i'll stick with a proper manual

You must of had it in auto if not it keeps the gear you select

Indeed, as the owner of a DSG car I have read a lot of misinformation about how they work on this site over the years. If in manual it stays in the selected gear unless;

1. You reach the rev limiter under acceleration in which case it upshifts.
2. You accelerate hard enough to activate 'kickdown' in which case it downshifts as many gears as neccessary to give maximum acceleration
3. You slow down to a speed at which it can't pull a high gear so it downshifts.
4. You stop in which case it selects 1st.

In auto 'D' it behaves like a conventional auto with the only drawback of being a bit 'grabby' from a standing start and not holding on a hill like a 'slushbox' auto.

Edited by catso on Saturday 16th May 23:40

All very good points but not relevent to the above post .The name CATSO is it Italian by any chance?

[robsti]

catso said:

robsti said:

D_T_W said:

Polarbert said:

I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.


I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.

Don't care how good they become, i'd rather have a clutch and gearstick as well. I've only driven 1 DSG equipped car, a SEAT Leon 2.0 FSI, and the gearbox did nothing but drive me insane. Pulling out of junctions when i want to be in second, the blooy thing would hold second, then the moment i go for the throttle, it bangs it into first and i'm kangaroo'ing like a bloody learner. Also, slow speed manouvering was a right pain in the arse.

Give me control of the clutch pedal and put paddles for the gearchange on the wheel with me in complete control of what gear i want i might consider it, but until that happens i'll stick with a proper manual

You must of had it in auto if not it keeps the gear you select

Indeed, as the owner of a DSG car I have read a lot of misinformation about how they work on this site over the years. If in manual it stays in the selected gear unless;

1. You reach the rev limiter under acceleration in which case it upshifts.
2. You accelerate hard enough to activate 'kickdown' in which case it downshifts as many gears as neccessary to give maximum acceleration
3. You slow down to a speed at which it can't pull a high gear so it downshifts.
4. You stop in which case it selects 1st.

In auto 'D' it behaves like a conventional auto with the only drawback of being a bit 'grabby' from a standing start and not holding on a hill like a 'slushbox' auto.

Edited by catso on Saturday 16th May 23:40