ABS in Snow & Ice ?

[Rich 36]

Would someone explain what happens that makes Winter driving such a pain in cars fitted with ABS,

(And how to avoid it)

[Mars]

I have read that a car will stop more quickly in snow without ABS as the snow piles up in front of a locked wheel, however when tyres slide, they slide in one direction only. ABS affords you a level of control not available when you're sliding.

[mat205125]

Mars said:

I have read that a car will stop more quickly in snow without ABS as the snow piles up in front of a locked wheel, however when tyres slide, they slide in one direction only. ABS affords you a level of control not available when you're sliding.

ABS can be really scary in snow when all you what to do is slow down, and the car just doesn't brake a wheel.

[planetdave]

Is it not a sop when you think about how you are not understeering straight to the scene of the accident?

[Parrot of Doom]

Rich 36 said:

Would someone explain what happens that makes Winter driving such a pain in cars fitted with ABS,

(And how to avoid it)

Drive more slowly, brake more gently. TBH!

[Mr E]

Rich 36 said:

(And how to avoid it)

Pull the fuse.

[Batfink]

Rich 36 said:

(And how to avoid it)

dont brake, turn early into the corner and apply throttle and opposite lock?

[Pablo16v]

Buy one of these for winter. 4 wheel drive & no abs

http://www.vwgolfcountry.nl/images/Golf%20Country%...

[RacingTeatray]

Pablo16v said:

Buy one of these for winter. 4 wheel drive & no abs

http://www.vwgolfcountry.nl/images/Golf%20Country%...

Have always wanted one of those...

ABS is not such an issue. As pointed out, just drive more slowly and brake more steadily. Been driving around here in Moscow on packed snow from time to time (after a heavy fall and before they clear it) in the Alfa and can honestly say I've only triggered the ABS once or twice. The traction control on the other hand, is quite another matter!

[bleesh]

When you brake on the snow, the wheel is more likely to lock, and the ABS detects this and releases the wheel, then applies the brake again, assuming you still have your foot on the brake. This goes on and on until you take your foot off the brake or the wheel stops sliding.
In effect the brake is off as often as it is on, and because the wheel keeps getting released, as mentioned before there is no build up of snow in front of the wheel which will cause a chock which stops the car.

On the Evo this makes the brakes sound like a bag of nails in a washing machine - horrible metal grinding noise.

I tested this roughly in my work car park by braking from 15 mph with ABS enabled, and then pulled the fuse and tried again - it took 30 feet longer to stop WITH the ABS.

I tend to pull the fuse now if there is snow settled on the roads.

[Rich 36]

Something new to me, at least, this fuse removal.

Its on a 964, which I don't have to use in bad weather anyway.
When I noticed car had it fitted I sort of remembered it being mentioned here last snowfall, and thought it might be worth clarifying.

[lance1a]

I think this was on before, it's why Audi (amongst others) used to have an on-off switch for the ABS, as it doesn't work on ice-snow-sand.

[RDE]

planetdave said:

Is it not a sop when you think about how you are not understeering straight to the scene of the accident?

What?

[Urban Sports]

F*ck me my Honda won't even go forwards, let alone have a chance of slowing down!

[ELAN+2]

Its true that in a straight line on a flat surface, a non ABS car will out brake an ABS equiped one in severe conditions (ice, snow, deep standing water), however, bear in mind that most roads have a camber on them and the non abs car would take up ditch diving. If the driver was proficient at cadence braking and didnt panic in the heat of the moment, the non ABS car would stop quicker, and still retain control. However we are human, not computers, we can be caught unawares and panic/freeze, abs doesn't, so on the whole for the average driver (consider that around 90% of drivers) then ABS is a good thing.I was lucky, i learned cadence braking before taking my teast, on a skid pan, and have had several training sessions on skid pans since. this can be a pain when the abs gets thoroughly confused when i try to Cadence brake though!.

[doc3]

Does ABS on modern cars (<2 years old) have a snow/ice/gravel override of sorts? Whilst the abs works exactly as it should in wet conditions, i've noticed on a few cars it is possible to lock the wheels in particularly slippery conditions. Are there systems out there that can recognise 'super slippery' conditions and allow the wheel to lock as a last resort? Or is the system just baffled and it's tyre slip rather than lock i'm experiencing (i believe most abs systems aim for 10% slip).

[cptsideways]

People seem to forget that driving in snow on summer tyres can increase stopping distances by X 10!!!!!! sheet ice can be even more!. For some reason people assume there car should stop quicker than this ABS or NOT. I guarantee any modern ABS equipped car will outbrake 99% of non ABS'd drivers every time & in a straighter line. I'll even put money on it.

Its the lack of coefficient your missing & no-one seems to realise!!! they justy blame the ABS

Edited by cptsideways on Friday 25th January 00:07

[doc3]

cptsideways said:

People seem to forget that driving in snow on summer tyres can increase stopping distances by X 10!!!!!! sheet ice can be even more!. For some reason people assume there car should stop quicker than this ABS or NOT. I guarantee any modern ABS equipped car will outbrake 99% of non ABS'd drivers every time & in a straighter line. I'll even put money on it.

Its the lack of coefficient your missing & no-one seems to realise!!! they justy blame the ABS

Edited by cptsideways on Friday 25th January 00:07

Who, on this thread, has forgotten that? I see no comments that suggest people expect ABS to make stopping distances constant whatever the weather.

[GravelBen]

cptsideways said:

I guarantee any modern ABS equipped car will outbrake 99% of non ABS'd drivers every time & in a straighter line. I'll even put money on it.

How would you define 'modern'? The ABS of my 1997 Legacy is pure shite on slippery stuff - I haven't tried taking the fuse out but may do this winter. I did a simple comparison coming down a steep snowy hill one day - If I braked gently and kept below the ABS threshold I could stop relatively quickly and safely. As soon as I braked hard enough to trigger the ABS it went into full spastic juddery-pedal mode and wouldn't stop at all, if anything it actually accelerated. Off the brakes and back on gently, stopped fine.

Any sort of loose gravel or corrugated unsealed surface its just as bad - ABS judders away and does nothing whereas non-ABS would just bite through into the material underneath and stop you. Often the handbrake is more effective than the ABS in those conditions in my experience.

[Morningside]

I found a bigger pain was Traction Control combined with ABS.
Last year I was trying to exit the local supermarket in the snow and the exit has a very slight slope with a small and gentle bump.
The BMW just would NOT climb it, powered up, moved slightly then powered down again. I could understand what it was trying to do (ie crawl) but it just did not work as it just slid down again.
In the end I just turned it off.

I also got stuck in a muddy field as well, with exactly the same problems. I honestly thing IF the Traction Control was turned off I would have made it out of the rut BUT it just 'lost' power leaving me stuck