RE: PH Heroes: Honda Integra Type-R

RE: PH Heroes: Honda Integra Type-R

Author
Discussion

Steve Gunnis

2,929 posts

206 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Spot on write-up Oli. Your sentiments share those of most of us owners. It can feel a bit lost sometimes, ambling around town or in traffic, it's a bit crap even on the motorway, in fifth gear at 70, a hard driven Golf TDI would pull your pants down. I remember when I hadn't driven it outside of town for a fortnight and I forgot what a fabulous machine it was. It's a car that demands to be driven hard more than any other, it just doesn't make sense any other way.

speedtwelve

3,510 posts

272 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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I bought a Corrado VR6, partly due to its reputation as one of the best handling FWD cars built and partly for the noise and (relative) performance...

BUT! The ITR is the only other FWD car I'd consider replacing the Corrado with. I've never driven one, but I can imagine the immediacy of throttle, steering and turn-in. I'd hope it would turn out to be the responsive kart for the road I reckon it'd be.

Unfortunately it'll never happen, as rather than go ITR next it'll more likely be Elise/TVR/Westfield.

Anyone driven both the Corrado VR6 & ITR? I'd be interested as to how they compare.

Steve Gunnis

2,929 posts

206 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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havoc said:
DC2-ITR said:
Not only did Autocar rate the DC2 UK ITR as the best alround front wheel drive car EVER. But the Jap version is EVEN BETTER.

Better looking front.
Faster (more powerful and lighter).
Better steering (Faster and lighter feeling Showa rack - UK = Wooden).
Firmer suspension.
The list goes on..

The UK look ITR was the base model look in Japan. Say no more...

Both cars are great. But the JDM import exceptional.
Awesome piece of kit... :-))
The differences aren't as great as all that, certainly not straight-line (first I've heard that the JDM was lighter - any evidence of that one?). I also wasn't aware the steering racks were different, and the stiffer suspension can be a liability on a typical UK B-road - the UKDM suspension is IMHO borderline for an everyday car...

...so IMHO buy on looks and condition, regardless of UK/JDM.


RCDuck - I own both. S2000 is quicker, is agile rwd (always a bonus! biggrin), and has the soft-top. But it's also less communicative - both the steering and the brake-pedal lack the 'granularity' you get from the 'teg, which makes it harder to push anywhere near 10/10ths, and makes it less rewarding as a result. Plus the S2000 suspension doesn't seem quite as well-matched - there's a slight mismatch at the rear which can result in a slight side-to-side pitching if heavily loaded on a bumpy B-road...we're talking illegal speeds here though. 'teg also has better seats and a better sound.

Look here for an in-depth comparison I wrote...
Havoc, you are wrong on these counts;

Better looking front - purely subjective, I prefer the quad headlights but opinion is split quite evenly amongst enthusiasts.
Faster (more powerful and lighter). - No, it only has 200PS quoted in Japan rather than the UK 190PS on Japanese 103 RON fuel. It is the same engine with a different exhaust manifold and ECU mapping. The JDM is only lighter if you compare to a UK with AC. Most UKs are without so have the same 1060kg kerb weight.
Better steering (Faster and lighter feeling Showa rack - UK = Wooden). - No comment.
Firmer suspension. - i.e. not tuned for British roads and therefore not as good on the average British B-road.
The list goes on.. - NO, actually it ends there, apart from 16" wheels, Group 20 rather than Group 17 insurance because it's an import and the service history written in an alien language, JDMs are also cheaper and residuals aren't as good.

I'm not saying the JDM 98 Spec is worse than the UKDM; that would be ridiculous, it just winds me up when this spittle appears on the web, the differences between the cars in performance terms are negligible, the UKDM is just a better ownership prospect in the UK.

All2chewy, you are also wrong, Performance Car (The first one) clocked the Integra at 6.2 to 60mph in a two direction average. They got one run down to 5.5 secs!

havoc

29,928 posts

234 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Steve - a lot of that wasn't me - I agree with you!

Re: 0-60 - you try achieving sub-6.5s in YOUR car with YOU paying the bills when the clutch goes! VTEC FWD is harder to launch than turbo'd FWD due to the peaky nature...

NiallOswald said:
Although VTEC helps, I imagine that at pottering speeds as mentioned in the article, there's actually a fair bit less than 130 lbft available hence not feeling 'perky'.
VTEC engines tend to produce ~90% of peak torque across virtually the entire rev-range - sub-2,000rpm upwards. There's a small but noticeable kick AT the VTEC cut-over to peak-torque, where it plateaus again until close to the redline...

Antonio 82

381 posts

205 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Excellent read. VTEC is addictive. I can't contemplate selling my Integra for fear of the withdrawal symptoms rofl



All2Chewy said:
Few things that need to be corrected, it was 6.7secs for 0-62mph, so 0-60 would not have come in 6.2 secs as that actually was the figures for the S2000 not the Integra.
6.7 is the official Honda UK statement.

Steve Gunnis said:
All2chewy, you are wrong, Performance Car (The first one) clocked the Integra at 6.2 to 60mph in a two direction average. They got one run down to 5.5 secs!
Steve is correct; Performance Car achieved an average of 6.2 over two runs, one of them being 5.5. God knows how they managed it without breaking something! I wouldn’t dare try that in mine! hehe

pbirkett

18,048 posts

271 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Steve Gunnis said:
Better looking front - purely subjective, I prefer the quad headlights but opinion is split quite evenly amongst enthusiasts.
Indeed... I personally prefer the 98 spec JDM over the UKDM model, but prefer the UKDM over the 96 spec JDM

Faster (more powerful and lighter). - No, it only has 200PS quoted in Japan rather than the UK 190PS on Japanese 103 RON fuel.
Japans Super Unleaded is 100 RON as far as I know. V-Power is 99 RON. I doubt it would lose 10 BHP from a loss of 1 RON! More like 3 tops I would think.

It is the same engine with a different exhaust manifold and ECU mapping. The JDM is only lighter if you compare to a UK with AC. Most UKs are without so have the same 1060kg kerb weight.
I was under the impression they were more like 1100 kg (all models)?

Firmer suspension. - i.e. not tuned for British roads and therefore not as good on the average British B-road.
Cant speak for the UK model, but I think my JDM is excellent on B-roads. I'm sure anyone who has either been passenger, or who tried to shake me from their tail would concur.

The list goes on.. - NO, actually it ends there, apart from 16" wheels, Group 20 rather than Group 17 insurance because it's an import and the service history written in an alien language, JDMs are also cheaper and residuals aren't as good.
The 16" wheels look MUCH better IMO, group 20 is unproved - any evidence of this? I pay less than £500 insurance for mine and I hardly have a squeeky clean license. Any decent insurance company will not rape you for this, and the ones who do probably arent the cheapest for any ITR. Also, I was under the impression the last time I looked that 98-spec JDMs and better were fetching BETTER money than all of the rest!

I'm not saying the JDM 98 Spec is worse than the UKDM; that would be ridiculous, it just winds me up when this spittle appears on the web, the differences between the cars in performance terms are negligible, the UKDM is just a better ownership prospect in the UK.
Neither am I, but I strongly disagree that a UKDM is a better ownership prospect in this country than a 98-Spec-R. Its no worse, and arguably slightly better: Thus far better residuals, probably less rust, and more power (like it or not).

All2chewy, you are also wrong, Performance Car (The first one) clocked the Integra at 6.2 to 60mph in a two direction average. They got one run down to 5.5 secs!
They must have been BRUTAL to get 5.5 secs to 60 in a teg!!

Furyous

23,502 posts

220 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Im fresh into Itr's, had read all the stories and fancied having a go with a ph type legend.

Only owned my UKDM for around 6 weeks, still getting it to the spec I want, and only had a couple of mini hoons.

But,it does feel an occasion to drive, people still look,and the cognoscenti tend to nod appreciatively at it.

Overall, Im enjoying it, just not had the weather/time to enjoy it properly yet.

Only pics Ive had chance to take were crappy phone ones.

Levi1357

1 posts

191 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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The insurance issue is true, Im getting one in july, and Bell quoted me 700 for a UK R reg, but 1200 for a Imported R reg, so i guess there lies the proof,

jatinder

1,667 posts

212 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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So glad I got my one just before the chavs get hold of it. It's just ticked over to 42,000, I love every minute of it.

Surprisingly enough I absolutely hated it when I drove it back home from Staffordshire, It was noisy, tram lined and I got really pissed off with it. After a couple of weeks loving maintenance it feels brilliant. Just waiting for the next pay packet, so I can replace all four Brigestones. They are pretty tired.

Running costs aren’t so bad either, I’m already questioning myself what the hell am I going to replace mine with!!

jatinder

1,667 posts

212 months

Wednesday 30th April 2008
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Excuse the dirty car.

Sorry i'm a picture we

Digital

420 posts

231 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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speedtwelve said:
Anyone driven both the Corrado VR6 & ITR? I'd be interested as to how they compare.
I moved from a Corrado VR6 to an ITR, owned both for 2 years each and loved both. The ITR [i]is[/] the better handling car, no question, and faster point to point (weighs about 100+ kg less despite being quite a bit longer). The Integra was a lot rawer, nothing like the smoothness of the VR6, but huge fun to rev - obviously it doesn't have the low-down torque of the Corrado. I always loved the snarl of the VR6 engine when you revved it, but the ITR must be just about the best sounding 4 pot engine, especially when on the second cam.

Despite the narrower tyres, the ITR always felt quite a bit grippier, and the LSD makes a huge difference to cornering speeds. The standard RE010 tyres were sensational in the dry (if a bit scary in the wet!). The Corrado always seemed to have a lovely fluid chassis, lovely sense of poise about it and a much more comfortable ride than the Teg.

As a day to day car, the Corrado was probably the easier to live with, but the Honda was by far the more reliable and a bit more practical too as the boot is huge (surprisingly!). The seats in the Teg are still the best of any car I've sat in.

On balance, of the 2 it's the Integra I'd choose to go back to, but they're both great cars and I've still got a soft spot for both smile

My VR6:


and my ITR:

senna786

7 posts

217 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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These are one of the finest cars of all time. Infact Evo rated them in their top 10. I've had 3, the first being 5 years ago, and always kept going back!!!!!. I have also owned an NA2 NSX 2004, 997C2S and am currently awaiting my delivery date from Nissan for my R35...

The current DC2, is a 2000 in black, 56k. Immaculate, This is one car i shall always keep a hold off along with my Mk1 Campaign GTi.....

I always arrive at work with a smile on my face...... when i drive the DC2...

this is a no doubt a future classic, like the AE86 became.....



Edited by senna786 on Thursday 1st May 00:47

hobbou

9 posts

196 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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probably the best car I've owned, their is one weak point which is the distributor i had it replaced twice

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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Anyone know of a decent race prepared example for sale for reasonable money?

stew-S160

8,006 posts

237 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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seeing as others are posting theirs, here is my old one-








i miss it badly.

NiallOswald

326 posts

205 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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I believe EVO decided the Integra was the best FWD drive ever - competition included the Corrado (which is yet another car I want to own). It would have to be that purple, surely the best colour.

So the RE010's aren't great in the wet? I've been looking for something a bit 'sportier' to replace the Michelins on my focus and noticed those are available in the appropriate size...scratchchin

Scottie - NW

1,284 posts

232 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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NiallOswald said:
I believe EVO decided the Integra was the best FWD drive ever
That's the problem for me, it may be the greatest FWD drive car ever, but to some of us that is like being the fastest one legged runner ;-)

I love these cars, have considered buying one a few times, but to me there are better RWD drive alternatives out there for similar or often less money, and it may be down to individuals opinions, but I have always only bought RWD cars as I believe this is the better configuration for a true drivers car.

I fully accept some may disagree, and do love the DC2, but that is why I couldn't but it. Comments like "it almost handles like a RWD car" bemuse me, why not just buy a RWD car if that is the feeling you crave LOL?

Hope the above is taken in the spirit it's meant. :-)

havoc

29,928 posts

234 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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Scottie - NW said:
That's the problem for me, it may be the greatest FWD drive car ever, but to some of us that is like being the fastest one legged runner ;-)

...

Hope the above is taken in the spirit it's meant. :-)
I DO understand what you mean - there's something about being able to control the attitude of a car on the throttle which is immensely satisfying (the 'tegs diff is close but slightly different).

But, Caterham and Elise/VX aside, I've yet to drive a more capable and involving RWD (or AWD) car. And even there the Integra is a more rounded machine than the Elise/VX, and a LOT more forgiving/playable at/near the limits. Back in c.2000 it came 2nd to the Scooby P1 (beating Elise in #3 and Boxster in #4) in Evo's "Best real-world driver's car" article. So sod the "best fwd" accolade - the previous wording in Evo was "one of the finest driver's cars we know"...which sums it up rather better IMHO.

EvoBarry

1,903 posts

264 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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Scottie - NW said:
I love these cars, have considered buying one a few times, but to me there are better RWD drive alternatives out there for similar or often less money, and it may be down to individuals opinions, but I have always only bought RWD cars as I believe this is the better configuration for a true drivers car.
Is there similar RWD alternatives though? MX5 is a cheap rwd car but its nowhere near an ITR as an allround package imho. Other than that, what is there??

To those of you wondering what the fuss is about, the only way to find out is to drive one and feel the car for yourself. And even then, a quick run round the block will leave you wondering what the fuss is all about, you need to really push the car to feel it working at its best. It'll feel like a "nice" hot hatch up to a point but then when you get it really loaded up into a bend, squeeze the power, feel the car settle in that four wheel drift stance, then the diff starts to tighten and the nose comes in line even more... the howling engine hauling you to past the apex and out of the corner, still with revs to spare... awesome cars for the money. Someone said it earlier, everyone should try one at least once!biggrin

senna786

7 posts

217 months

Thursday 1st May 2008
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If you want a rear wheel drive cult classic go for the corrolla RWD AE86... great handling, but a little pricey nowadays!!

wish I had kept a hold of mine all those years ago!!! and not chopped it in at the auction for pennies!!