Zebra Crossings - Do you stop for Cyclists?
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
I'd stop. Anyone waiting at a Zebra crossing has "right of way" in my eyes.
If it was a Zebra crossing I might be inclined to stop, if however it was something smaller like a Rabbit or a Squirrel I don't think I'd bother.I definitely do not stop for mounted cyclists at pedestrian crossings, the same as I wouldn't stop for a car that was for some reason also on the pavement when it shouldn't be.
Of course I'd stop.
The actual delay to my journey will be precisely zero once I've caught back up with any numpties in front that drove through quoting the letter of the law to the patiently waiting soul.
The person is waiting at the zebra cos they want to get to the other side. Where's the harm in a bit of give and take.
The actual delay to my journey will be precisely zero once I've caught back up with any numpties in front that drove through quoting the letter of the law to the patiently waiting soul.
The person is waiting at the zebra cos they want to get to the other side. Where's the harm in a bit of give and take.
LeoSayer said:
tinman0 said:
If a cyclist is inclined to cross a crossing without stopping, then their days are numbered whatever happens, and I can't see how the driver can respond or made liable in that case. No motorist wants to run over a cyclist, so as long as the motorist has his affairs in order (eg license, no vehicle defects, an MOT, insurance and a good driving history) I can't see why the Police wouldn't side with the motorist if they are the only witness.
So if there are no witnesses I can quite legally and happily run over all cyclists on crossings? Take a different example, you are driving down the road at 25mph in a 30 and a child runs out in front of you and you honestly have no chance of stopping in time. There are no witnesses other than yourself, marks on the road indicate that you weren't doing 90 and pulled a huge skid, who are the Police going to believe? You or the dead kid?
I suppose in that case you can happily and legally run down children then?
If you are going to try and second guess every action of everyone who is near the road, then welcome to driving at 10mph, "just in case".
I'm a cyclist, and I frequently use a zebra crossing to get across a busy road to the cycle lane on the other side. I get off and push. I don't know if it's legal to ride across, but I get off because it's less provocative than riding across so no-one gets annoyed.
Likewise if I'm driving, I'd let a cyclist cross on the crossing. I don't know if it's legal to drive over him, but I stop as it's less provocative than hitting him so no-one gets maimed or banned.
Crash into a cyclist on a point of principle? Yeah sure you would. How about babies in prams?
Likewise if I'm driving, I'd let a cyclist cross on the crossing. I don't know if it's legal to drive over him, but I stop as it's less provocative than hitting him so no-one gets maimed or banned.
Crash into a cyclist on a point of principle? Yeah sure you would. How about babies in prams?
f@tboy" Target="_blank">class="forumQuoter">f@tboy said:
Crash into a cyclist on a point of principle? Yeah sure you would. How about babies in prams?
Its not about crashing into a cyclist on a point of principle.I read the original post as two fold, either a cyclist waiting at a zebra crossing, and a cyclist who is cycling along a pavement who cycle over a crossing.
My understanding is that you don't ride across a crossing, so a cyclist waiting at a crossing can stay waiting, or maybe I will stop for them. You are under no obligation to stop at the crossing for a cyclist as you are a pedestrian. If you want to stop for a cyclist, fair enough.
As for a cyclist who is cycling down a pavement who swings out across a crossing - the driver doesn't stand a chance really. Not saying its legal or right to run down the cyclist, but if a cyclist without warning crosses a crossing whilst you are driving through and are unable to avoid him - responsibility lays with the actions of the cyclist.
tinman0 said:
Its not about crashing into a cyclist on a point of principle.
I read the original post as two fold, either a cyclist waiting at a zebra crossing, and a cyclist who is cycling along a pavement who cycle over a crossing.
My understanding is that you don't ride across a crossing, so a cyclist waiting at a crossing can stay waiting, or maybe I will stop for them. You are under no obligation to stop at the crossing for a cyclist as you are a pedestrian. If you want to stop for a cyclist, fair enough.
As for a cyclist who is cycling down a pavement who swings out across a crossing - the driver doesn't stand a chance really. Not saying its legal or right to run down the cyclist, but if a cyclist without warning crosses a crossing whilst you are driving through and are unable to avoid him - responsibility lays with the actions of the cyclist.
I agree that if you collide with a cyclist who rides out in front of you then it is likely that it's their own fault. It's also true you were the last person who was able to avoid the collision.I read the original post as two fold, either a cyclist waiting at a zebra crossing, and a cyclist who is cycling along a pavement who cycle over a crossing.
My understanding is that you don't ride across a crossing, so a cyclist waiting at a crossing can stay waiting, or maybe I will stop for them. You are under no obligation to stop at the crossing for a cyclist as you are a pedestrian. If you want to stop for a cyclist, fair enough.
As for a cyclist who is cycling down a pavement who swings out across a crossing - the driver doesn't stand a chance really. Not saying its legal or right to run down the cyclist, but if a cyclist without warning crosses a crossing whilst you are driving through and are unable to avoid him - responsibility lays with the actions of the cyclist.
To answer your point about trying to anticipate the actions of other road users, that's a very basic requirement that is repeated many times in the highway code.
It's not true to say a cyclist cannot ride across a crossing. They are expressly permitted to ride across Toucan crossings. They are not mentioned in relation to Zebra or Pelican crossings. How that would affect your position should you ever have to explain it in court is something that you have already thought about I expect.
bint said:
It's the traffic light crossing I take every day that gets me - okay I fully admit I cycle over it, perhaps it may make a difference if I walk but I tend to cycle just in case I can cross over without having to press the button (lights are just in front of a roundabout and I know are a pain to drivers when they go off) - but so many drivers just run the red lights!
Stop doing this at once.I used to do this. Then one day the light went green and I rolled my bike forward. The front wheel got far enough onto the crossing for the bloke who believed that his light wasn't red to hit it with his Ford Escort.
I was flung ten feet into the air...I'm told. I landed very, very fortunately on my back and not on my head. The bike was thrown onto the opposite side of the road.
Fortunately everyone else stopped whilst we all listened to the ticking of the "Cross Now Cross Now". I was lucky. After about a half hour I was able to get up and ride home. I have needed the services of an Osteopath to fix me back up - and I'll never have the pain-free back I once had ever again.
I was also lucky that the guy who ran into me stopped and helped me up and that the ambulance crew and cops were most helpful. I still don't remember everything.
On pedestrian crossings - push your bike. It can go wrong when two people make mistakes at the same time. I shook the guy's hand - no hard feelings - but that prang will stay with me for the remainder of my days - AND I WAS LUCKY!
At crossings? I aim to be able to stop - no matter who is crossing or when they choose to do it. Call me old fashioned but from bitter experience I can say that a pedestrian/bike combination leave one hell of a dent in the front of a car.
f@tboy" Target="_blank">class="forumQuoter">f@tboy said:
I'm a cyclist, and I frequently use a zebra crossing to get across a busy road to the cycle lane on the other side. I get off and push. I don't know if it's legal to ride across, but I get off because it's less provocative than riding across so no-one gets annoyed.
Likewise if I'm driving, I'd let a cyclist cross on the crossing. I don't know if it's legal to drive over him, but I stop as it's less provocative than hitting him so no-one gets maimed or banned.
Crash into a cyclist on a point of principle? Yeah sure you would. How about babies in prams?
There's always one.Likewise if I'm driving, I'd let a cyclist cross on the crossing. I don't know if it's legal to drive over him, but I stop as it's less provocative than hitting him so no-one gets maimed or banned.
Crash into a cyclist on a point of principle? Yeah sure you would. How about babies in prams?
Interesting set of replies. Seems most people don't view cyclist with same ignorance that I often see cyclist treating pedestrians with.
I'm a cyclist, a driver and a pedestrian and I think cyclist are a bloody liabilty on the pavements. Don't get me wrong I understand why they do it but in general after time they get arrogant and start thinking riding on the pavement is a right and hence start using facilities designed for pedestrians as their right.
Thats when they start to annoy me. Very similar to the motorbike who want to be given a car width when it suits him but two minutes later will filter or cut in front of you at a set of lights.
For the record, I do stop, but it's a grudging stop. Cyclists riding over pedestrian crossing are often a liability to themselves and pedestrians not least of all because of the obstacle course formed by road railings. They should at least get off and walk over.
I'm a cyclist, a driver and a pedestrian and I think cyclist are a bloody liabilty on the pavements. Don't get me wrong I understand why they do it but in general after time they get arrogant and start thinking riding on the pavement is a right and hence start using facilities designed for pedestrians as their right.
Thats when they start to annoy me. Very similar to the motorbike who want to be given a car width when it suits him but two minutes later will filter or cut in front of you at a set of lights.
For the record, I do stop, but it's a grudging stop. Cyclists riding over pedestrian crossing are often a liability to themselves and pedestrians not least of all because of the obstacle course formed by road railings. They should at least get off and walk over.
For reasons as above...f@tboy" Target="_blank">class="forumQuoter">f@tboy said:
It's not true to say a cyclist cannot ride across a crossing. They are expressly permitted to ride across Toucan crossings. They are not mentioned in relation to Zebra or Pelican crossings. How that would affect your position should you ever have to explain it in court is something that you have already thought about I expect.
If you say that a cyclist has priority whilst waiting to cross a zebra crossing, and I'm outside the zigzags, then I will stop in future. I didn't think that it was, but if you say it is, then fair enough, and I stand corrected and shall alter my driving accordingly.As for trying to second judge what other road users are going to do - there is only so much second judging you can do. The vast majority of people on the roads, and I'm sure PH, get that judgement right. Its very difficult to articulate that judgement on an internet forum though.
tinman0 said:
If you say that a cyclist has priority whilst waiting to cross a zebra crossing, and I'm outside the zigzags, then I will stop in future. I didn't think that it was, but if you say it is, then fair enough, and I stand corrected and shall alter my driving accordingly.
As for trying to second judge what other road users are going to do - there is only so much second judging you can do. The vast majority of people on the roads, and I'm sure PH, get that judgement right. Its very difficult to articulate that judgement on an internet forum though.
Wait up. I said a cyclist is allowed to use toucan crossing, and that a cyclist is not mentioned in relation to a zebra crossing. I really don't know if a cyclist can claim priority on a zebra (but if he can it will not be by waiting, it will be moving onto it - the same as a pedestrian), but I stop as I don't want a crash. Once a person is actually ON a zebra then giving way to them as you approach is obvious, irrespective of how they are getting across.As for trying to second judge what other road users are going to do - there is only so much second judging you can do. The vast majority of people on the roads, and I'm sure PH, get that judgement right. Its very difficult to articulate that judgement on an internet forum though.
I completely accept your point about anticipation - anyone who rides onto a crossing of any type without observation and judgement is asking for trouble and no-one would want to be in the position of having to miss them.
I'd stop. I tend to try to treat bikes as more vulnerable, so worth looking out for. Sure it's annoying, but the more people that cycle, the greater chance we'll end up with segregated cycling facilities that would suit everyone better.
Wouldn't everyone be better off if things were like in Copenhagen - http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/
Wouldn't everyone be better off if things were like in Copenhagen - http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/
Edited by Mekon on Thursday 8th May 16:30
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