Chain vs Cambelt
Discussion
Merlot said:
Superhoop said:
topless_mx5 said:
zektor said:
Chains... I swear by them.
My missus has an MX-5... and the fact it runs a chain was a major selling point for me.
I might get flamed for this if I'm wrong (especially with my PH name) but hasnt the MX5 got a non interference cambelt? What year is her MX5? Mine was 1990 and I'm sure it had a cambelt, was a few years ago though when I had it so maybe I just got it wrong...My missus has an MX-5... and the fact it runs a chain was a major selling point for me.
Superhoop said:
Another driving factor in the use of chains is the ever more dufficult to achieve emissions laws. Cambelts suffer far more deflection than chains, meaning that cam timing is slightly less accurate, leading to higher emissions.
PH bullshyte alert! Where does this stuff come from. There is no timing issues with Belts. This has to be accurate- it's a given requirement. The pistons and valves CAN NOT be out of synchronisation. You talk about emissions laws- which means you're refering to production machinary. Production machinary is developed and tested for this and the timing to be true for its normal operating range.Racing is different- but then emissions laws no longer apply.
Cam timings effect on emissions is complicated but even if you set a Cam belt out by one tooth (1 tooth=typically 8 cam degrees) the effect on emissions wouldn't be major once the cats are lit off.
OP: Also- there are more engine designs in the field with Chains than belts.
Jaguar V8
Chevy LS1
Lexus V8
All current BMW engines
VW VR6
Ford Modular V8
etc etc
I must admit, I am not that impressed with timing belts, the tensinor spring on my Golf diesel broke last year, cost me £1000 and I did the work myself.
They are pretty good generally though, I rememeber changing MK3 Escort belts at 10k miles and 205/maestro/Astra diesel belts at 27k
Unyet now many last 90k
Against is the trend now to change all the rollers, tensioners and even water pump so what was a £20 parts bill is more like £150
The older cars mentioned had single row chains like a bicycle, modern chains are double row or Hyvo/Morse multi plate types.
Motorcycles generally use the hyvo type but they still need changing around 30k on the sports models and that is a complete engine strip to do the job properly.
The Honda VFR 750/800 V4 bikes use a gear which is kind of nice
They are pretty good generally though, I rememeber changing MK3 Escort belts at 10k miles and 205/maestro/Astra diesel belts at 27k
Unyet now many last 90k
Against is the trend now to change all the rollers, tensioners and even water pump so what was a £20 parts bill is more like £150
The older cars mentioned had single row chains like a bicycle, modern chains are double row or Hyvo/Morse multi plate types.
Motorcycles generally use the hyvo type but they still need changing around 30k on the sports models and that is a complete engine strip to do the job properly.
The Honda VFR 750/800 V4 bikes use a gear which is kind of nice
Personally. I'm a fan of the chains prefer lower servicing costs also if buying used there is always the nagging question did they change the belts or did the dealer change the belts a chain takes that issue away. So much so I have a chain now.
However isn't the pushrod -or cam gear- the ultimate option and corvette have made it work to high engine speeds
However isn't the pushrod -or cam gear- the ultimate option and corvette have made it work to high engine speeds
Welshbeef said:
Personally. I'm a fan of the chains prefer lower servicing costs also if buying used there is always the nagging question did they change the belts or did the dealer change the belts a chain takes that issue away. So much so I have a chain now.
However isn't the pushrod -or cam gear- the ultimate option and corvette have made it work to high engine speeds
What ever car I purchase I always make sure it gets a service and belt change right away unless there is strong evidence it has been done as per the book.However isn't the pushrod -or cam gear- the ultimate option and corvette have made it work to high engine speeds
If that were the case I'd sell it when that time came let the next owner make those changes. Older chain cars I have run and my dad did run never once changed the tensioners- I do recall adjusting then once on the maestro but that was purely as it was rattling rest of them nothing needed bar oil sparks and filters which anyone can do
Welshbeef said:
If that were the case I'd sell it when that time came let the next owner make those changes. Older chain cars I have run and my dad did run never once changed the tensioners- I do recall adjusting then once on the maestro but that was purely as it was rattling rest of them nothing needed bar oil sparks and filters which anyone can do
Mine failed suddenly, one moment it was fine the next it was running as if a couple of cylinders weren't firing so I couldn't really sell it. After much 'discussion' the dealer agreed to stand 80% of the cost but it took them 2 months and 3 attempts to fix it. Audi A3 3.2 (VR6 engine) BTW.
zektor said:
Chains... I swear by them.
Modern chained systems are not noisy, last considerably longer... possibly the life of the engine now days on modern cars. And if it were to 'let go' you are more likely to hear a racket from the engine before the impending disaster. Giving you some warning before it actually goes.
Agreed - I know this is harking back to classic cars, see my post in Renaults in the Classic section, but chains sure do last. Our old 1968 Renault 16GL's chain was eventually so worn that it jumped a tooth once the poor Reynolds plunger-tensioner had almost come out of its housing, and the car wouldn't start one day - just moved the distributor until she fired up, drove it home and fixed it easy (see that same post in the classics to see how)Modern chained systems are not noisy, last considerably longer... possibly the life of the engine now days on modern cars. And if it were to 'let go' you are more likely to hear a racket from the engine before the impending disaster. Giving you some warning before it actually goes.
But if one has an 'interference' engine - boy do they go pop when a belt breaks - of course, no warning noises or rattles...
AFAIK, some if not all Cavs are clearance, or we were lucky - years ago me & my lad were out in the wife's then Cav MkIII CD and he was 'seeing how fast it would go' - it was quite good. Down at the end of a very long straight, we came to a halt at a tee junction, and the engine just died. We turned it over, nothing. Quick check of a spark plug lead - no spark. Off with the dizzy cap - rotor arm not turning. Trailered home, found 4 teeth stripped off the cambelt. All compressions OK after fitting a new belt - whew.
Pete
The 1.2 Seat Ibiza has a known problem with the timing Chain, at around 50-60k it slips, pretty much destroying the engine in the process.
Mine went at 54k, luckily the damage wasn't too bad, but cost me £400 to put right. Sold the car almost immediately after this.
Seat do a fix for this but the parts alone are £190 and takes bloody hours to fit.
Mine went at 54k, luckily the damage wasn't too bad, but cost me £400 to put right. Sold the car almost immediately after this.
Seat do a fix for this but the parts alone are £190 and takes bloody hours to fit.
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