Mad Negative Camber. Why?
Discussion
reg_slr said:
clarkey318is said:
Thing is, those don't have ABS (Correct me if I'm wrong) and the harder you brake the more negative camber due to suspension compression, effectively meaning that that car has sod all grip. Basically that car is dangerous and should be scrapped.
BSDoes that mean that with 2.0 - 2.5 Deg per front wheel, a little positive toe and no ABS just about every Caterham should be scrapped?
warped head said:
kambites said:
In a way I can respect that pink... thing. It clearly only exists for comedy value - at least it's not trying to be something it isn't.
It is trying to be something it isnt!!Its trying to be a car. Thats more an ornament as it probably doesnt drive
This camber business seems to be yet another crashingly dull nail in the coffin of the Dub Scene.
I know that proponents of the cause would argue with zeal about how some of the cars in the scene would piss all over my Essex Boy's (I am one, I'm allowed) bodykitted, noisily exhausted Mondeo. They would go on and on about throttle bodies and G Chargers and the like - however I have yet to see one. The only Scene cars round my way a K Reg Polos with terminal rust and a few stickers on the windows.
It is modding by laziness, and seems ridiculous to anyone who grew up lusting after glam rods and their successors the overboosted Cossies and kitted XRs. Back in the day, and still if one knows how, dramatic lowering and the fitment of wider wheels was commonplace. To get a high riding Hillman to squat down was a work of art. Lowering blocks were fitted, sometimes even complete rear end swaps with caged IRSs took precedence. Then in order to stay legal, and safe, the rear arches were cut and re-modelled. Usually in steel. Boring family saloons gained a badder, cooler, swaggering stance. Sat low on flared, muscular haunches. The same often happened at the front. A whole generation of benign runarounds were traansformed into slavering attack dogs; toting souped up V6s and Rover V8s.
Camber wasn't even an option in those days as it was by and large fixed by the live axle setups, found on nearly every British rear driver. Obviously the independant systems on FWD hatches are adjustable; but it seems to me like an easy way out. There's no proper engineering or tin bashing involved. Instead handling is made slightly worse for the sake of looks.
I have nothing against modifying a car to make it look better, but the Dub Scene imposes an almost Stalinist reigime concerning this. Personally I, and most other people, think screwing a tatty roofrack laden with empty suitcases and tarpaulin on to one's car looks bloody silly. However all the Vee Dubbers do it. It is detrimental to fuel economy, and everything else is affected by having a vast amount of weight high up. They can't all think it looks good; instead they follow each other like sheep.
The whole point of glam rodding was to have a car that was not like anyone else's. Thousands were poured into airbrush murals, tortuously complex body modifications (who even does channeling any more?) and noisy dragster type engine conversions. The VW enthusiasts all end up with different cars modified to look identical. No-one seems to express their own ideas. Any modifications that are done are also easy in the grand scheme of things. Most stuff is either bolt or stick on and often detracts from the way the car drives.
Rant over, the VW business bores me. As does the rat look and any other "can't be arsed to do a proper job" type of car modding.
I know that proponents of the cause would argue with zeal about how some of the cars in the scene would piss all over my Essex Boy's (I am one, I'm allowed) bodykitted, noisily exhausted Mondeo. They would go on and on about throttle bodies and G Chargers and the like - however I have yet to see one. The only Scene cars round my way a K Reg Polos with terminal rust and a few stickers on the windows.
It is modding by laziness, and seems ridiculous to anyone who grew up lusting after glam rods and their successors the overboosted Cossies and kitted XRs. Back in the day, and still if one knows how, dramatic lowering and the fitment of wider wheels was commonplace. To get a high riding Hillman to squat down was a work of art. Lowering blocks were fitted, sometimes even complete rear end swaps with caged IRSs took precedence. Then in order to stay legal, and safe, the rear arches were cut and re-modelled. Usually in steel. Boring family saloons gained a badder, cooler, swaggering stance. Sat low on flared, muscular haunches. The same often happened at the front. A whole generation of benign runarounds were traansformed into slavering attack dogs; toting souped up V6s and Rover V8s.
Camber wasn't even an option in those days as it was by and large fixed by the live axle setups, found on nearly every British rear driver. Obviously the independant systems on FWD hatches are adjustable; but it seems to me like an easy way out. There's no proper engineering or tin bashing involved. Instead handling is made slightly worse for the sake of looks.
I have nothing against modifying a car to make it look better, but the Dub Scene imposes an almost Stalinist reigime concerning this. Personally I, and most other people, think screwing a tatty roofrack laden with empty suitcases and tarpaulin on to one's car looks bloody silly. However all the Vee Dubbers do it. It is detrimental to fuel economy, and everything else is affected by having a vast amount of weight high up. They can't all think it looks good; instead they follow each other like sheep.
The whole point of glam rodding was to have a car that was not like anyone else's. Thousands were poured into airbrush murals, tortuously complex body modifications (who even does channeling any more?) and noisy dragster type engine conversions. The VW enthusiasts all end up with different cars modified to look identical. No-one seems to express their own ideas. Any modifications that are done are also easy in the grand scheme of things. Most stuff is either bolt or stick on and often detracts from the way the car drives.
Rant over, the VW business bores me. As does the rat look and any other "can't be arsed to do a proper job" type of car modding.
It's simple. Adjust the camber more if you are going to rag it. Decrease front/increase rear to reduce understeer and to the opposite to increase it.
I run -4 degrees on the front of the mini so I can spank it around corners. I did run the rears dead straight, but when I fitted a rear anti-roll bar, I needed to increase the grip of the outer wheel, so that now runs -1.25
If I had a tail happy car, I'd probably -ve the rear a bit. Not really much over 4 degrees as if you really want to push it harder than that, you should be looking at chaging tyres. However, if there are no more tyres to choose from, perhaps it's an idea to reassess your road driving style!
Beetles with silly rears is just poor modification. If you drop it, fit adjustable arms and readjust it.
The biggest w
kers are these IMO. Take a VW beetle and reduce the front track. Coupled with your silly rear camber, it will understeer like a tt and be very very dangerous in the wet. Why I have to share the road with these dangerous pricks is beyond me. 
My mods are anti-comfort and pro-grip.
I run -4 degrees on the front of the mini so I can spank it around corners. I did run the rears dead straight, but when I fitted a rear anti-roll bar, I needed to increase the grip of the outer wheel, so that now runs -1.25
If I had a tail happy car, I'd probably -ve the rear a bit. Not really much over 4 degrees as if you really want to push it harder than that, you should be looking at chaging tyres. However, if there are no more tyres to choose from, perhaps it's an idea to reassess your road driving style!
Beetles with silly rears is just poor modification. If you drop it, fit adjustable arms and readjust it.
The biggest w
kers are these IMO. Take a VW beetle and reduce the front track. Coupled with your silly rear camber, it will understeer like a tt and be very very dangerous in the wet. Why I have to share the road with these dangerous pricks is beyond me. My mods are anti-comfort and pro-grip.Edited by Tangent Police on Monday 30th November 21:45
Mr2Mike said:
Tangent Police said:
Beetles with silly rears is just poor modification. If you drop it, fit adjustable arms and readjust it.
I'd like to see you try this on the original Beetle swing arm suspension!I forgot, they aren't adjustable......
Edited by Tangent Police on Monday 30th November 23:35
pits said:
I seriously don't know where people are getting this idea that the VW boys actually dial in the neg camber and make it look like, all cars have negative camber when you drop it an inch off the floor that increase the negative camber you can then dial out the negative camber, but at when they are that low you will just be ripping the wings and tyres apart.
The VW guys do actually dial in negative camber!They use camber shims and the adjustment on the shocks to get the maximum negative camber they can.
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