Modern diesel reliablity
Discussion
Biker's Nemesis said:
Deva Link said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
I get a new diesel focus every 3 years, the only problem I've had in the last 12 years was an ECU fault that stopped the car, the car a 2006 TDci had to have a new ECU fitted and that was that.
I think that's the point with these cars - they tend to go expensively wrong at 3-6 years. Mondeo diesels have a terrible reputation for developing niggly fuel faults that are unfixable. Even having a warranty doesn't help as they won't pay out unless there's a specific failure, so you could be looking at many hours diagnostic work.I don't give mine the lickings of a dog though.
It's really the implications for a private buyer a few years down the line when the warrenty has run out. "that was that" isn't what a private owner would be thinking when his 5 year old £5000 Focus suddenly needs an ECU that could quite easily cost him £2000+ once the diagnosis bills had been added.
mat205125 said:
It's really the implications for a private buyer a few years down the line when the warrenty has run out. "that was that" isn't what a private owner would be thinking when his 5 year old £5000 Focus suddenly needs an ECU that could quite easily cost him £2000+ once the diagnosis bills had been added.
Buy brand new or buy under a grand anything else is a gamblethinfourth2 said:
mat205125 said:
It's really the implications for a private buyer a few years down the line when the warrenty has run out. "that was that" isn't what a private owner would be thinking when his 5 year old £5000 Focus suddenly needs an ECU that could quite easily cost him £2000+ once the diagnosis bills had been added.
Buy brand new or buy under a grand anything else is a gamble- Turbo's, esp turbo-diesel and esp. modern common-rail, EGR, DPF ones.
- Direct Injection
- Loads of electronics rather than mechanical bits
- Over-sophisticated ECUs that try and compensate for a fault and just end-up disguising it. (i.e. most modern cars, sadly)
- Cheap component suppliers (Ford & Vauxhall, this means YOU!) or poor QC at the factory giving a lot more 'Friday afternoon' cars (Peugeot/Renault?!?)
...oh, and anything ex-fleet or ex-rental!
thinfourth2 said:
Wouldn't touch a modern turbo diesel with a barge pole unless doing silly milage.
Guy at work has a zafria just out of warranty that has blocked its particulate filter and is looking at a £1400 bill. and it was loads of hassle during the warranty period
Do you know how they fix that? For £1400 I would tell them to go fGuy at work has a zafria just out of warranty that has blocked its particulate filter and is looking at a £1400 bill. and it was loads of hassle during the warranty period
k themselves, my mate works in Vauxhall and this thing happens all the time.Common rail diesel of today has this particulate filter.
People buy common rail diesel, drive it slowly get good mpg out of it.
People never really use the turbo or whole rev range, particulate filter gets blocked
People then realise the car has no power, take back to Vauxhall where it is returned after several hundred pounds.
Do you know what the fix is?
They hook it up to the laptop, and press a button, which then runs the car from 700 rpm to the red line several times, clearing out the particulate filter.
Tell your mate to stop being such a pussy and put his foot down and use all the rev range once in a while, it will clear it out.
Interesting one this. I have an 06 plate E46 320Cd, bought from approved used stock with 18 months and 15k miles on it.
Despite servicing it as per the schedule etc I darent run it without a warranty because of their tendancy to eat turbos, DSC pumps and the whole swirlflap issue.
[someone earlier mentioned this was the same fail mode as the fiat/vauxhall unit, it is not. the swirl flaps dont get choked with carbon deposits, the spindals holding them in place in the manifold shear due to cyclic loading fatigue over time allowing them to travel in to the engine]
My old Golf GT TDi I would have had no such worries with. The £500 a year warranty would cover a second hand engine should the absolute worst happen.
Despite servicing it as per the schedule etc I darent run it without a warranty because of their tendancy to eat turbos, DSC pumps and the whole swirlflap issue.
[someone earlier mentioned this was the same fail mode as the fiat/vauxhall unit, it is not. the swirl flaps dont get choked with carbon deposits, the spindals holding them in place in the manifold shear due to cyclic loading fatigue over time allowing them to travel in to the engine]
My old Golf GT TDi I would have had no such worries with. The £500 a year warranty would cover a second hand engine should the absolute worst happen.
Deva Link said:
...so a diesel Moggy Minor then? 
Nah, a Moggy with a Rover V8, of course! (Actually, I'm struggling to think of a PH car <5 years old which won't have much risk. Would have to be n/asp, pre-DI and fairly simple. So we should all drive around in Caterfields and similar...
Fascinating thread.
Particularly relevant at the mo as the new job for me means new car (in a consultancy role). I've looked at everything diesel based from an A6 right down to a 5 year old diesel Mondeo as potentially doing 20,000 miles a year. However, with this issue I wonder if it's worth just holding onto my old 1.8 petrol '03 Mondeo for the mo, as the 'diesel savings' may well get wiped out if DMF or some injectors fail...
Simon
Particularly relevant at the mo as the new job for me means new car (in a consultancy role). I've looked at everything diesel based from an A6 right down to a 5 year old diesel Mondeo as potentially doing 20,000 miles a year. However, with this issue I wonder if it's worth just holding onto my old 1.8 petrol '03 Mondeo for the mo, as the 'diesel savings' may well get wiped out if DMF or some injectors fail...
Simon
havoc said:
RobCrezz said:
I don't think the direct injection coking up is an issue on engines with forced induction, but I could be wrong.
How does FI stop the coking then? Given all that I'm aware that FI does is 'force-feed' the air through the inlet tract at higher speeds (and thus greater volume-per-cycle).Genuine question - the wife has a Golf GTi with DI and I'm wondering how long post-warranty we keep it for...
I recently went the diesel route.
Quite happy thus far - bought an Alfa GT with the basic but strong 1.9 in it, which seems to work well with the car.
I had looked at 159 2.4s, but there were lots of threads on AlfaOwner about DPFs ruining consumption and generally mucking the car about. I'm hoping the 1.9 will have less issues, as it should be pretty basic in comparison (was it the same engine used in the Punto etc?)
At the very least, if all goes tits up, you can get a new engine for £800 inc VAT (well, your existing engine reconned following belt failures etc, which includes stripping, rebuild, new parts/pumps, oil/filters etc). In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
Quite happy thus far - bought an Alfa GT with the basic but strong 1.9 in it, which seems to work well with the car.
I had looked at 159 2.4s, but there were lots of threads on AlfaOwner about DPFs ruining consumption and generally mucking the car about. I'm hoping the 1.9 will have less issues, as it should be pretty basic in comparison (was it the same engine used in the Punto etc?)
At the very least, if all goes tits up, you can get a new engine for £800 inc VAT (well, your existing engine reconned following belt failures etc, which includes stripping, rebuild, new parts/pumps, oil/filters etc). In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
phil1979 said:
I'm hoping the 1.9 will have less issues, as it should be pretty basic in comparison (was it the same engine used in the Punto etc?)
In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
I believe the 1.9JTD is the old 2.0 Twinspark lump, more or less.In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
Surely its not a 'Cut n dry' situation.
Surely any car can be 'reliable' if its serviced and looked after proprely. My old boss had a 4yr old 530d M Sport with 184k on the clock and had been faultless, apart from wear and tear items. However it had been serviced properly and never scrimped on getting things sorted.
Surely any car can be 'reliable' if its serviced and looked after proprely. My old boss had a 4yr old 530d M Sport with 184k on the clock and had been faultless, apart from wear and tear items. However it had been serviced properly and never scrimped on getting things sorted.
HellDiver said:
phil1979 said:
I'm hoping the 1.9 will have less issues, as it should be pretty basic in comparison (was it the same engine used in the Punto etc?)
In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
I believe the 1.9JTD is the old 2.0 Twinspark lump, more or less.In comparison, if my old 2.0 Twinspark grenaded itself, it would cost double to replace.
HellDiver said:
RobCrezz said:
Eh? Unusual to use the same block for petrol and diesel.
My apologies, the 1.9JTS shares the block with the 1.9JTD, both of which are supplied to Alfa/FIAT by GM Powertrain.The blocks for the 1.9JTS and the (thankfully discontinued) 2.2JTS come from GM.
Edited by jamieboy on Wednesday 2nd June 14:34
Sorry just found this brilliant thread and its really made me stop and think.We have been thinking about buying a used VAG TDi of 2005-2008 vintage but it would be high mileage due to budget.I was feeling forced to go the diesel route as it would be worth more come selling time but as has been mentioned any failure of any or all major components dmf,dpf,turbo etc would wipe out any savings.
Very interesting stuff.
Very interesting stuff.
macp said:
Sorry just found this brilliant thread and its really made me stop and think.We have been thinking about buying a used VAG TDi of 2005-2008 vintage but it would be high mileage due to budget.I was feeling forced to go the diesel route as it would be worth more come selling time but as has been mentioned any failure of any or all major components dmf,dpf,turbo etc would wipe out any savings.
Very interesting stuff.
A more recent thread for you - http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...Very interesting stuff.
All that jazz said:
macp said:
Sorry just found this brilliant thread and its really made me stop and think.We have been thinking about buying a used VAG TDi of 2005-2008 vintage but it would be high mileage due to budget.I was feeling forced to go the diesel route as it would be worth more come selling time but as has been mentioned any failure of any or all major components dmf,dpf,turbo etc would wipe out any savings.
Very interesting stuff.
A more recent thread for you - http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...Very interesting stuff.
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