Modern diesel reliablity
Discussion
Tyre Smoke said:
10 Pence Short said:
Tyre Smoke said:
If modern diesels were so crap at reliability, why do all us taxi drivers use them?
I have a fleet of 407 2.0L diesels and they all have well over 100k trouble free miles on them - stop start town work as well as motorways. They all do circa 1500 miles a week and the oldest (55 plate) has 190k miles on it.
I bet they're serviced properly. Unlike rather a lot of modern diesels, especially when they get into private hands.I have a fleet of 407 2.0L diesels and they all have well over 100k trouble free miles on them - stop start town work as well as motorways. They all do circa 1500 miles a week and the oldest (55 plate) has 190k miles on it.
havoc said:
flakeypaul said:
Can you please now tell me that Renaults don't break, ever. Especially the diesels 
A modern CR TDi is a fair bit more complex than an n/a petrol, and the components are under more pressure and more stress. So I'd be very surprised if they last as long, or are as reliable. Finally, direct injection has been seen on the VAG FSi engines to coke-up the inlet tract and the back of valves a lot quicker. I'd expect the same in a diesel.
But the comment above about maintenance is also very important - and as someone said on a different thread, a lot of people now treat cars like white goods.
Personally I wouldn't get a modern TDi unless:-
- I did very big mileage; and
- I got a decent a/market warranty to cover the big stuff
...but they're still the best answer for 20k+ mileages.
To sum up - car's cost money. Occasionally they die and cost a lot to revive. Buy with care???
My neighbour who drives a diesels' missus sometimes drives his car. Key in, engine on, foot flat to floor, turbo screaming - big bills around corner. She once had the nerve to tell me to stop 'revving' my car because 'I'll break it' - 6000rpm in a correctly warmed up petrol engine apparently causes damage that revving the tits off a dry turbo in a diesel doesn't because 'diesels are real strong'.
That's what puts me off the RX8, (apart from the lack of torque.)how many mummys do you think check the oil every 2 fill ups when the kids are running round causing havoc. So many of them must be run regularly with little oil in wearing them down quicker.
Anyway the RX7 is better looking and faster.
Diesels aren't the best car for long distances, big lazy petrol v8's are but they cost alot in petrol.
What you should have said, is, if you want to go long distances the best engine to have is a big lazy V8, but if you can't afford the petrol you could try a well maintained diesel.
Anyway the RX7 is better looking and faster.
Diesels aren't the best car for long distances, big lazy petrol v8's are but they cost alot in petrol.
What you should have said, is, if you want to go long distances the best engine to have is a big lazy V8, but if you can't afford the petrol you could try a well maintained diesel.
I'm a firm believer in don't ever buy a diesel unless it makes financial sense to do so.
Unless you are doing stellar mileages, why would you?
Take my RRS. 4.2 Supercharged. 14 mpg average. Beautiful V8 burble from the exhausts coupled with a lovely S/c whine at the other end. It has done precisely 14k miles in two and a bit years.
My taxis do 200k in three years or thereabouts. They do circa 37mpg on average across the driving spectrum. Would a 2.0L petrol do that? Probably not. If it did I'd have one.
Unless you are doing stellar mileages, why would you?
Take my RRS. 4.2 Supercharged. 14 mpg average. Beautiful V8 burble from the exhausts coupled with a lovely S/c whine at the other end. It has done precisely 14k miles in two and a bit years.
My taxis do 200k in three years or thereabouts. They do circa 37mpg on average across the driving spectrum. Would a 2.0L petrol do that? Probably not. If it did I'd have one.
If serviced properly they are generally reliable and most common faults are easy to spot and preventative maintainance at high miles reduces bills.
Mine is reliable, my parents is reliable, and in running Diesel Land Rovers, Vitos and Transits for work over the past 10 years none have ever sufffered from any significant engine issues or cost more than a few quid to keep running.
Mine is reliable, my parents is reliable, and in running Diesel Land Rovers, Vitos and Transits for work over the past 10 years none have ever sufffered from any significant engine issues or cost more than a few quid to keep running.
flakeypaul said:
I do between 12 and 15,000 miles p/a. My current car does about 31mpg combined. The one I'm looking at buying does 47mpg combined (according to the stats!) Or, roughly 550 miles to a tank as opposed to 320 miles to a (2 litre smaller) tank. That's two tanks per month as opposed three and a bit, or £70 quid(ish) cheaper. So over the three years I plan own the car I'll save (in fuel) £2540. Granted, a newer petrol car will improve on 31mpg, and I'll get something a little newer for the same money, but petrols' depreciate more, so will add to the running costs!
Call it 40,000 miles over 3 years. Which would be ~1,290 gallons for petrol or ~950 gallons for the diesel (don't believe the stats - unless you stick to-or-below 70 on M-ways, and short-shift all the time, you won't get near the claimed mpg for a diesel.) 340*£5.50 = £1,870. Allow for me being conservative and you'll probably save £2k in fuel.But as you said you'll run an older car for the same money, and I don't buy the "diesels depreciate slower" argument - initially maybe, but at a certain price-point they'll lose a similar amount to the equivalent petrol. And they'll cost a little more to service.
So you'll save ~£600 a year in exchange for a slightly older car with more risk of stuff going wrong...so you'll want to buy a warranty which will probably be £300 a year.
So you're down to maybe £300 a year effective saving. Personally I'll stick with the more entertaining petrol for that sort of money.
Okay let's take into consideration the car i've just bought. It's a Renault Grand Scenic 1.9dci. The figures claim it does 47mpg (it did 46mpg according to the computer while I was on the test drive). For a grand less I could have got the 2.0 petrol which is claimed to average 34mpg.
So the diesel over 40,000 miles will use (according to the figures) 851 gallons at a cost of £5.49 per gallon (current price near my house) will cost £4672, or 11.7p per mile.
The petrol over 40,000 miles will use (according to the figures) 1176 gallons at a cost of £5.40 per gallon will cost £6350, or 15.9p per mile.
Over 3 years this is a saving of £1678, or £678 including the extra cost of purchasing the diesel. The fact that an equivalent petrol is a grand less than the diesel is enough evidence for me that the petrols depreciate more, meaning the diesel will be easier to sell for more money when the time comes to part company.
Taking into account the saving in fuel, depreciation, tax costs, etc, it does add up to a resonable saving. As far as entertainment value goes, it's a seven seater to ferry my family round in, not a sports car to set my hair on fire. The driving pleasure is more connected with where we go than the journey at the moment. Babies and fast corners don't really mix
So the diesel over 40,000 miles will use (according to the figures) 851 gallons at a cost of £5.49 per gallon (current price near my house) will cost £4672, or 11.7p per mile.
The petrol over 40,000 miles will use (according to the figures) 1176 gallons at a cost of £5.40 per gallon will cost £6350, or 15.9p per mile.
Over 3 years this is a saving of £1678, or £678 including the extra cost of purchasing the diesel. The fact that an equivalent petrol is a grand less than the diesel is enough evidence for me that the petrols depreciate more, meaning the diesel will be easier to sell for more money when the time comes to part company.
Taking into account the saving in fuel, depreciation, tax costs, etc, it does add up to a resonable saving. As far as entertainment value goes, it's a seven seater to ferry my family round in, not a sports car to set my hair on fire. The driving pleasure is more connected with where we go than the journey at the moment. Babies and fast corners don't really mix
Why would you think a diesel is more unreliable than a petrol??
If anything they would be more reliable as they dont have the same electronic ignition system as a petrol. No HT leads etc. Less to go wrong!
Engines are stronger too. Look at Taxis, ship engines, digger engines etc. If they were unreliable surly we would all use petrol/ LPG?
I hate to admit it but i am a diesel fan, especially the new BMW diesels.
If anything they would be more reliable as they dont have the same electronic ignition system as a petrol. No HT leads etc. Less to go wrong!
Engines are stronger too. Look at Taxis, ship engines, digger engines etc. If they were unreliable surly we would all use petrol/ LPG?
I hate to admit it but i am a diesel fan, especially the new BMW diesels.
Mercedes are having a lot of problems with their latest 4 cyl diesels, lots of injector failures in the first few months.
http://www.carsuk.net/mercedes-blueefficiency-om65...
Could have expensive out-of-warranty costs?
http://www.carsuk.net/mercedes-blueefficiency-om65...
Could have expensive out-of-warranty costs?
I think as with most things internet, people rarely comment on their good experiences, they go online to complain.
Having looked on many websites at many cars, I find the reader reviews relatively useless to judge a cars reliability as the vast majority of people who have reason to complain will, the majority that do not simply don't! - they are however useful to determine any common faults that a vehicle has.
I think if a fairly representative collection of car owning experiences was to be published online, regardless of manufacturer, the majority of experiences would be positive ones. Even those who have bought Peugeot's
Having looked on many websites at many cars, I find the reader reviews relatively useless to judge a cars reliability as the vast majority of people who have reason to complain will, the majority that do not simply don't! - they are however useful to determine any common faults that a vehicle has.
I think if a fairly representative collection of car owning experiences was to be published online, regardless of manufacturer, the majority of experiences would be positive ones. Even those who have bought Peugeot's
Edited by flakeypaul on Saturday 29th May 18:55
Edited by flakeypaul on Saturday 29th May 18:56
i have been an lpg user for 9 years till jan driven alfa 155, Saab 9000, Volvo t5 and a 4wd V8 A8 on the stuff. now have a honda accord diesel.
the derv is in no way as entertaining to drive.ok the torque feels good for a while but its no where near as much fun as the volvo or audi which even with their superior power were as cheap to run as this. (honda 45 mpg, t5 23 on gas= a8 between 18 and 20.
servicing costs, a V8 is never cheap, 8 decent plugs does't come cheap but lets be honest, the audi was a lovely car, the honda is a workhorse...
however big V8s come in 50k cars and if stuff breaks its never cheap. i threw 5k at my audi in 12 months and just lost faith in it so jumped out to get something that wouldnt give me bigbills every couple of months. 5 months in its cost me a bulb and some wipers...
the derv is in no way as entertaining to drive.ok the torque feels good for a while but its no where near as much fun as the volvo or audi which even with their superior power were as cheap to run as this. (honda 45 mpg, t5 23 on gas= a8 between 18 and 20.
servicing costs, a V8 is never cheap, 8 decent plugs does't come cheap but lets be honest, the audi was a lovely car, the honda is a workhorse...
however big V8s come in 50k cars and if stuff breaks its never cheap. i threw 5k at my audi in 12 months and just lost faith in it so jumped out to get something that wouldnt give me bigbills every couple of months. 5 months in its cost me a bulb and some wipers...
Edited by entwisi on Saturday 29th May 20:49
nottyash said:
Why would you think a diesel is more unreliable than a petrol??
If anything they would be more reliable as they dont have the same electronic ignition system as a petrol.
I suggest you look in to how modern diesels work. They've as much, if not more electronics than a petrol.If anything they would be more reliable as they dont have the same electronic ignition system as a petrol.
Typical clueless response.
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