Stupid things non petrolheads say....
Discussion
NotDave said:
Guy I used to work with got his PPI claim through & was brassick, so bought his first nearly new car...... A 4 year old (2007) Astra 1.4 5door.
Spent a good half an hour telling me how it was a license loser on the motorway as it'd do 90-100mph without him even realising.
I wouldn't have minded but I was sat outside as he said it, next to my 200SX..... Which he'd seen the RR printouts for.
Meanwhile, on Cockney-Rhyming-Slag-Heads somebody quotes this in the "Stupid things non-fans of rhyming slang say".Spent a good half an hour telling me how it was a license loser on the motorway as it'd do 90-100mph without him even realising.
I wouldn't have minded but I was sat outside as he said it, next to my 200SX..... Which he'd seen the RR printouts for.
Just kidding, ND.
While I do know that 'boracic-lint' means skint, I have no idea nor interest in what the rhyming slang actually is for rich. So, that just sums up the 'they don't know as much as us about our interest, nor care to, but maybe they're expressing an interest or trying to engage us on it, bless them' thread, yes? Besides, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that PHs don't know as much as they think they do.
Cheers, Jim
PS Unless I've completely misunderstood and you're mate's a banker who after paying out PPI claims could only afford a nearly-new car as opposed to the brand-spankers he would usually have. In which case, as you were.
NotDave said:
marcosgt said:
Does it really make that much difference? 25BHP doesn't sound like it'd make a huge difference...
I must admit, once in a blue moon I forget my wife's 1.6 won't pull like my 1.3...
M.
125bhp petrol with 100+ nm of torque and 5spd box...... I must admit, once in a blue moon I forget my wife's 1.6 won't pull like my 1.3...
M.
VS
150bhp 6spd box and 350+ nm of torque - because diesel
petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
MGJohn said:
The stuff folks throw away nowadays defies belief sometimes. A lot of those breaker yards are full of tidy used cars without crash damage which the local Arthur Daley used car dealers have taken in part exchange and do not see as nice little earners. There's a number of reasons why car dealers do this but, whatever, it is very wasteful.
It is indeed wasteful but as a dealer the bottom end of the market just isn't worth bothering with.For every clued up bangernomics convert you sell to you'll get 10 who come back 6 months later with a broken electric mirror switch shouting loudly how the car is "not fit for purpose innit" and how they'll reject it, and call both Trading Standards (wooooo) and Dominic Littlewood (double wooooooo).
AstonZagato said:
Ah! Depending on available resources, this is a good excuse to break out the Exchange and Mart and do some PH shopping without the OH harrumphing that you are buying another car.
Courtesy of only being in our first house 5months resources are nil and a fleet of 3.5 cars means the Mondeo is a workhorse that'll be here for another 18 months/30,000 miles at leastHugo a Gogo said:
it's all about the revs
petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
Indeed hence why I would've dropped it into 2nd or 3rd then abused the rev range.. She pulled out in 5th in Mondeo and expected woooosh & gopetrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
Went with a colleague to a client meeting in her 16v Citroen ZX. She drove. On the way back she asked me to (company car). After a few miles we had to join a Motorway, and in 3rd gear I accelerated to >6500rpm down the sliproad.
She said "What are you doing? Its never made that noise before".
SS7
She said "What are you doing? Its never made that noise before".
SS7
NotDave said:
Nohedes said:
Really?! That seems exceptionally low...
Google it. 1800 DURATORQ Mondeo engines ain't exactly gutsy!Mrs piped out another one today, when I told her not to use the Mondeo as the NSR caliper has siezed and isn't being sorted until Monday.. She replies:
"maybe we should look at getting rid?"
What??? It's a £40 part FFS!
- That's this one: http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
- That's this one: http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
Edited by CraigyMc on Saturday 5th January 20:03
Hugo a Gogo said:
it's all about the revs
petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
This has always bothered me.petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
The useful rev range of 1500-5000rpm* on my diesel is in practise no different than the useful rev range of 2000-7000rpm on my old petrol car.
The way the gearing is set up, the diesel has longer gears: this is really common.
In my diesel, 3rd gear will do from 10mph to about 90mph. On the petrol, the same was true, because although the engine could rev higher, the gearing on the petrol car was quite a bit shorter.
In the end it was pretty similar, if you just removed the marks on the revcounter you could drive them the same way. Sure, the petrol is turning over faster, but it's also geared shorter.
As for the 1500rpm "diesel useful range", what 1500rpm is that?
C
- for the record, my car will happily pull from about 1100rpm because it's been designed to: the dual mass flywheel has a mechanism in it (centrifugal pendulum absorber, from LuK) to promote that sort of running. It'll pull unhappily all the way from idle in the first 3 gears on a flat road.
CraigyMc said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
it's all about the revs
petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
This has always bothered me.petrol one wouldn't be much slower if you used the rev range, as opposed to the useful range of about 1500 rpm on the diesel (hence the 6 speed)
The useful rev range of 1500-5000rpm* on my diesel is in practise no different than the useful rev range of 2000-7000rpm on my old petrol car.
The way the gearing is set up, the diesel has longer gears: this is really common.
In my diesel, 3rd gear will do from 10mph to about 90mph. On the petrol, the same was true, because although the engine could rev higher, the gearing on the petrol car was quite a bit shorter.
In the end it was pretty similar, if you just removed the marks on the revcounter you could drive them the same way. Sure, the petrol is turning over faster, but it's also geared shorter.
As for the 1500rpm "diesel useful range", what 1500rpm is that?
C
- for the record, my car will happily pull from about 1100rpm because it's been designed to: the dual mass flywheel has a mechanism in it (centrifugal pendulum absorber, from LuK) to promote that sort of running. It'll pull unhappily all the way from idle in the first 3 gears on a flat road.
people who would never 'thrash' an engine will happily rev a diesel to 4 or 4.5k, hence they think "wow these diesels are quick!" becuase they've never got a car into its powerband before
I know well that they are geared differently, that's why the talk of 350 'torques' is rubbish, power is the only thing that matters (well, the shape of the power curve to be fair)
I can easily put out 100ft/lb on a spanner with one hand
and as for the useable range, from about 2500-4000 on my old Focus (yes, it will go beyond that, but that's the useful bit)
clearly some manufacturers think they have narrow powerbands, that's why VW, Ford etc have been fitting 6 speed boxes to average commuter cars
Hugo a Gogo said:
.
clearly some manufacturers think they have narrow powerbands, that's why VW, Ford etc have been fitting 6 speed boxes to average commuter cars
.
Nailed it right there. Narrow powerbands.clearly some manufacturers think they have narrow powerbands, that's why VW, Ford etc have been fitting 6 speed boxes to average commuter cars
.
Equally clearly, many diesel car user confuse the need for several gear changes to reach 70mph with fast acceleration.
From a standstill, two of my petrol cars will reach close to 70mph with just a single change form 1st to 2nd such is the useful and usable power spread. They are nothing special, just bog standard Petrol Turbocharged 2 litres.
Even a humble 1.4 Petrol Rover 25 will reach around 60 from a standstill with just a single gear change.... and no cloud of Black Stuff when they do so....
My 13 year old Rover 620ti will go from 20 to 140 in 5th gear alone, such is the flexibility of the engine on and off boost. However, acceleration below about 45 mph in 5th is shall we say tardy. Drop it down to 2nd gear and floor it then will see off many diesel engined cars of similar engine capacity, even new ones far more highly regarded. Much to their users' surprise and chagrin. Well, helps to pass the time.
More gears does not always mean better. There are reasons for these things.
xRIEx said:
MGJohn said:
Drop it down to 2nd gear and floor it then will see off many diesel engined cars of similar engine capacity, even new ones far more highly regarded.
Is that supposed to be brand new information to everyone?No, most certainly not, only new to some and maybe not know-it-alls like some folks I could mention.
Diesels DO have narrow power-bands. All you have to do is look at the torque curve of a modern diesel vs a n/asp petrol from the 1990s*.
Both of my cars have ~7,000rpm of useable power band, or >80% of the total rev range. The wife's modern turbo petrol has 4,500rpm or 75% of total rev range. A typical single-turbo diesel has probably 2,000-2,500 out of 4,500, so 45-55%. The twin-turbo diesel set-ups are better but for that complexity / cost you could get a lovely creamy V6/I6 petrol with much better sound and throttle-response.
* Modern DI petrols are getting more dieselly, but that's due to compliance with the emissions regs and the way combined-cycle testing forces mfrs to design cars - the old K20A Type R engine was in the real-world no less economical nor any slower than the VAG 2.0T, but it had significantly worse emissions as VAG played the game whilst Honda wanted to make a good engine.
Both of my cars have ~7,000rpm of useable power band, or >80% of the total rev range. The wife's modern turbo petrol has 4,500rpm or 75% of total rev range. A typical single-turbo diesel has probably 2,000-2,500 out of 4,500, so 45-55%. The twin-turbo diesel set-ups are better but for that complexity / cost you could get a lovely creamy V6/I6 petrol with much better sound and throttle-response.
* Modern DI petrols are getting more dieselly, but that's due to compliance with the emissions regs and the way combined-cycle testing forces mfrs to design cars - the old K20A Type R engine was in the real-world no less economical nor any slower than the VAG 2.0T, but it had significantly worse emissions as VAG played the game whilst Honda wanted to make a good engine.
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